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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Openly support the campaign that had people wearing shirts saying “Fuck your feelings.” Yet, somehow, people are self absorbed by saying “Fine, we don’t need to talk anymore.”
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On November 28 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:10 Plansix wrote:
As always Danglars, you want be able embrace the most divisive form of politics without consequences. We are all only human and can only put in so much effort to understanding people on the other side.. The Trump brand of politics is division and grievance and there is only so much energy people can put in. Between being actively screwed over by the GOP and the day to day grind of life, some people have become too much effort. I put people on notice a long time ago that they best come prepared to justify remaining in my life if they openly supported Trump. And some folks have made it work. Most did not have not. We are all human and must talk to each other’s and strike friendships across the political aisle because we don’t all individually or intra-Party have all the answers.
That’s very theoretical and your reasoning breaks down as soon as the example is extreme enough. If you lived in Germany in 1932, you would find it obvious that people could stop being friends over politics and that the whole “strike friendshop across the other aile” wouldn’t work.
Politics may be decisive on to whom i give my friendship because i like and admire people with certain qualities, that are incompatible with some political stances.
I sincerely cannot have a good friend who likes the idea of torture, or death penalty, or opposes gay people, or has no problem with poor people being unable to aford a healthcare insurance. It’s not that i am narrow minded, bit that i don’t want to be around people whose ideas horrify me; inversely i highly value compassion and tolerance, and i don’t want friends who are unable to display either.
So again, it’s not political per say. It’s about people, and what their political opinions says about them. I’ll never befriend a Le Pen supporter because in my view and with my values, you are really not a good person if you think she is great and align with her ideas, that i find simply repulsive.
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Estonia4505 Posts
On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election.
Do That Bad people not win elections? That's a curious position to take, considering the fact that some of the greatest monsters were elected into office at some point, and continued to have broad support for quite a while. People might not make the world into a better place by opposition alone, but they are not actively making it worse by joining the bandwagon of nativist populists.
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On November 28 2017 00:21 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general. That ones on you, and society is the worse for it.
That's the dumbest response I've ever received on a message board in my life.
Which is saying a lot.
Me - "I don't want to give my friendship to someone literally actively supporting the means to the end of millions of people dying od completely preventable issues in some Randian genocide."
You - "OMG no that's a bad thing, you dividing society!1!!"
Society is worse for Trump even running for president, let alone winning. Society is worse for millions of people supporting him without giving a damn for the consequences. Society is not worse because I wouldn't trust the moral judgement of such people enough to give them the trust or benefit of friendship.
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On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election.
Nobody compared Trump to Golden Dawn. Read again and don’t strawman the shit out of people if you want to make a point. Thx.
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On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election.
I heard the Obama refrain “I hope he fails” be called racist and unpatriotic and anti-civilizational and all that.
All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” It’s getting more play here that I initially thought. I expected more cautious “if all he does it talk the_Donald” or “he interjects MAGA or cuck into conversations.”
Nah, kick them to the curb—their political opinions elected a President that I don’t like and the political is the personal today because that’s how society works in 2017.
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On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.”
Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap.
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On November 28 2017 00:41 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:21 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general. That ones on you, and society is the worse for it. That's the dumbest response I've ever received on a message board in my life. Which is saying a lot. Me - "I don't want to give my friendship to someone literally actively supporting the means to the end of millions of people dying od completely preventable issues in some Randian genocide." You - "OMG no that's a bad thing, you dividing society!1!!" Society is worse for Trump even running for president, let alone winning. Society is worse for millions of people supporting him without giving a damn for the consequences. Society is not worse because I wouldn't trust the moral judgement of such people enough to give them the trust or benefit of friendship.
I live how the guys who use war terminology against the “snowflakes”, “cucks”, “SJW” and so on, make “lock her up” a campaign slogan and vote and applause a guy who has made the insult a political trademark and tweets like a teenage troll, are fucking horrified when they are told we don’t really want to befriend them.
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On November 28 2017 00:41 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:21 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general. That ones on you, and society is the worse for it. That's the dumbest response I've ever received on a message board in my life. Which is saying a lot. Me - "I don't want to give my friendship to someone literally actively supporting the means to the end of millions of people dying od completely preventable issues in some Randian genocide." You - "OMG no that's a bad thing, you dividing society!1!!" Society is worse for Trump even running for president, let alone winning. Society is worse for millions of people supporting him without giving a damn for the consequences. Society is not worse because I wouldn't trust the moral judgement of such people enough to give them the trust or benefit of friendship.
Maybe it’s easier to imagine a country like an episode of “Survivor” for you, but not for me. “Literally Hitler” is outplayed and “literally genocide” is at least as backwards of a means of debate. Go talk a little more to the other side and stop these fantasies where your life is run by politics.
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My life wasn’t run by politics under Obama. It’s run by politics now, thanks to Trump and the GOP actively trying to fuck me and my friends over.
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On November 28 2017 00:37 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:11 Gahlo wrote:On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this. Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him? So this was all in reaction to the tweet by a NYT columnist. I wonder if you have a response to that tweet. Agree/disagree? You can’t be friends with people of an opposing political opinion if it involves supporting Trump?
I'm not going to disparage people on how they choose their friends, that's up to them. When it comes to my republican friends, we just don't talk politics generally.
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On November 28 2017 00:49 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:41 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 28 2017 00:21 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general. That ones on you, and society is the worse for it. That's the dumbest response I've ever received on a message board in my life. Which is saying a lot. Me - "I don't want to give my friendship to someone literally actively supporting the means to the end of millions of people dying od completely preventable issues in some Randian genocide." You - "OMG no that's a bad thing, you dividing society!1!!" Society is worse for Trump even running for president, let alone winning. Society is worse for millions of people supporting him without giving a damn for the consequences. Society is not worse because I wouldn't trust the moral judgement of such people enough to give them the trust or benefit of friendship. Maybe it’s easier to imagine a country like an episode of “Survivor” for you, but not for me. “Literally Hitler” is outplayed and “literally genocide” is at least as backwards of a means of debate. Go talk a little more to the other side and stop these fantasies where your life is run by politics.
Life of people is run by politics. Do you know how many people’s life will get fucking ruined if your party attacks on “literally Hitler” Obamacare succeed? Immigrants, sick people, gay folks, those are all real men and women, who sometimes have their lives broken by political decisions.
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On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. I heard the Obama refrain “I hope he fails” be called racist and unpatriotic and anti-civilizational and all that. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” It’s getting more play here that I initially thought. I expected more cautious “if all he does it talk the_Donald” or “he interjects MAGA or cuck into conversations.” Nah, kick them to the curb—their political opinions elected a President that I don’t like and the political is the personal today because that’s how society works in 2017.
you’ve written paragraphs defending republican voters endorsing roy moore as a means of protecting a way of life and yet paint this as a liberal problem all over this page, i must be missing something?
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On November 28 2017 00:53 Plansix wrote:
My life wasn’t run by politics under Obama. It’s run by politics now, thanks to Trump and the GOP actively trying to fuck me and my friends over.
As long as it doesn’t happen to me, it’s not real seems to be a brand of politics, because you know, compassion is for snowflakes.
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On November 28 2017 00:54 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. I heard the Obama refrain “I hope he fails” be called racist and unpatriotic and anti-civilizational and all that. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” It’s getting more play here that I initially thought. I expected more cautious “if all he does it talk the_Donald” or “he interjects MAGA or cuck into conversations.” Nah, kick them to the curb—their political opinions elected a President that I don’t like and the political is the personal today because that’s how society works in 2017. you’ve written paragraphs defending republican voters endorsing roy moore as a means of protecting a way of life and yet paint this as a liberal problem all over this page, i must be missing something?
Danglars is a guy who wants to attack people like Jeff Flake for choosing what he feels it best country and working with Democrats, but then turns around and says we are terrible for not wanting to be friends with people who still support Trump. He will throw a conservative under the bus the instant they talk about compromise, but we are not allowed to do the same. He holds himself to a very different standard than he holds us.
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I don't understand the "extreme political differences" lingo. What are the totally extreme differences between Trump and Hillary apart from the obnoxious virtue posturing of the democrats, comically failing to deliver in real life? Hollywood, a den of proven real-life rapists, was certainly very loud when it came to attacking him. Yeah, those were the good guys.
Bush was a fucking clown, heir to a cleptocracy groomed by a bone fide war criminal dynasty and he was somehow "ok" enough to keep friends over, but the Dolan is not? The way Trump is portrayed by some is hilarious. No, Trump is not Hitler. If I hear this inane comparison once again I'm busting a nut. "Opposing" Trump is not only highly fashionable but apparently expected in burgeois urban circles, while opposing Adolf got you murdered or deported at 2 AM. He hasn't started any wars, apart from being a buffoon has done minimal damage it seems, he likely saved the country from a completely insane warhawk and her proven rapist husband and opened up some sorely needed discussion topics.
I wanted Bernie to win, but the way Trump is being portrayed by salty progressives is not only indecent and dishonest but kind of funny. You can wrap yourself in a bubble all you want but sooner or later it's going to break, so unless you start addressing specific and serious policy failures crying uncle over moral outrage is about the weakest political strategy I can think of.
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On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap.
Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future.
He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime 
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On November 28 2017 01:01 Kickboxer wrote:
I don't understand the "extreme political differences" lingo. What are the totally extreme differences between Trump and Hillary apart from the obnoxious virtue posturing of the democrats, comically failing to deliver in real life? Hollywood, a den of proven real-life rapists, was certainly very loud when it came to attacking him. Yeah, those were the good guys.
Bush was a fucking clown, heir to a cleptocracy groomed by a bone fide war criminal dynasty and he was somehow "ok" enough to keep friends over, but the Dolan is not? The way Trump is portrayed by some is hilarious. No, Trump is not Hitler. If I hear this inane comparison once again I'm busting a nut. "Opposing" Trump is not only highly fashionable but apparently expected in burgeois urban circles, while opposing Adolf got you murdered or deported at 2 AM. He hasn't started any wars, apart from being a buffoon has done minimal damage it seems, he likely saved the country from a completely insane warhawk and her proven rapist husband and opened up some sorely needed discussion topics.
I wanted Bernie to win, but the way Trump is being portrayed by salty progressives is not only indecent and dishonest but kind of funny. You can wrap yourself in a bubble all you want but sooner or later it's going to break, so unless you start addressing specific and serious policy failures crying uncle over moral outrage is about the weakest political strategy I can think of.
this post has missed every real criticism of the administration and built a weak straw man of hollywood to knock down. bad!
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On November 28 2017 01:04 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap. Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future. He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime
i’m pretty sure you’ve already acknowledged the difference in voting trump and continuous support today, unsure why you’re walking that back now.
i know this has been said ad nauseam but when you just post whatever comes to your head without any consistency why should we read it? it’s just a waste of time when you’ll completely change your tune on the next post and pretend what you’re saying is of value, until the next post where it turns out it wasn’t.
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I'm not going to lose any sleep over losing friends that still support Donald fuckin' Trump.
Portraying him as some "rich white guy" is also hilariously disingenuous. I have friends that voted for Mitt Romney, John McCain, etc. etc.
You know that there is a difference between "rich white guy" and "Donald 'pussy-grabbin' Trump," right?
I'll be friends with someone who votes for a rich white guy, thats generally within my "line of okay," supporting Donald 'fighting like in the movies' Trump is pretty far away from that "line of okay."
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EPT
