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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9268

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 18 2017 01:30 GMT
#185341
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 18 2017 01:39 GMT
#185342
On November 18 2017 10:26 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 10:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

I wonder which one of his newfound friends told him it was unfair?


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
November 18 2017 01:42 GMT
#185343
On November 18 2017 10:30 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/931669499136434177

Strike #24. Surely something will happen this time. Surely.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-18 01:48:26
November 18 2017 01:47 GMT
#185344
If Trump and co don't end up in prison (I doubt anyone beyond maybe Flint does), it's going to be a pretty big indictment of our system.

Going forward nothing less bad/obvious than Trump's exploitation of the presidency for personal gain will even be considered as approaching impeachment worthy.

If anyone has any substance to their objection to such exploitation (left or right) they'll recognize why Trump and co have to be severely punished and how them not being severely punished will necessitate more drastic action.

That is to say, for the people to hold the entire institution responsible and systematically dismantle their insulated power structure.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 18 2017 01:54 GMT
#185345
There is a problem with prosecuting political opponents, the results are always tainted. I think a lot of Trumps people will be held accountable, but it has to be by all of congress. Both parties or not at all.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
November 18 2017 02:13 GMT
#185346
On November 18 2017 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On November 18 2017 09:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
African-American men serve longer sentences than white men for the same crime, a new study by the U.S Sentencing Commission shows.

The commission's analysis of demographic prison data from 2012 to 2016 found that black men serve sentences that are on average 19.1 percent longer than those for white men for similar crimes.

The racial disparity in sentencing can't be accounted for by whether an offender has a history of violence, according to the study by the commission, an independent bipartisan agency that is part of the U.S. federal judiciary branch.

When accounting for violence in an offender's past, black men received sentences that were on average 20.4 percent longer than that of white men, according to the commission's analysis of fiscal year 2016 data, the only year for which such data is available.

Source

Water is wet, despite many members of congress, law enforcement and Americans in general claiming it isn't.


You use "wet" so much to include everything from a blood soaked carpet, to vaginas, to PCP. The word basically has no meaning, so saying water is wet is dumb and I don't believe you.

Show me the statistics that prove water is wet and not moist or a neuro-illusion combining sensations of cold and texture to trick us into perceiving "wetness".


Water is sometimes wet.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-18 03:57:14
November 18 2017 03:56 GMT
#185347


The NRA seems to have found some weird friends. This is not very pro America, pro democracy of them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-18 05:09:29
November 18 2017 05:07 GMT
#185348
On November 18 2017 11:13 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 18 2017 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On November 18 2017 09:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
African-American men serve longer sentences than white men for the same crime, a new study by the U.S Sentencing Commission shows.

The commission's analysis of demographic prison data from 2012 to 2016 found that black men serve sentences that are on average 19.1 percent longer than those for white men for similar crimes.

The racial disparity in sentencing can't be accounted for by whether an offender has a history of violence, according to the study by the commission, an independent bipartisan agency that is part of the U.S. federal judiciary branch.

When accounting for violence in an offender's past, black men received sentences that were on average 20.4 percent longer than that of white men, according to the commission's analysis of fiscal year 2016 data, the only year for which such data is available.

Source

Water is wet, despite many members of congress, law enforcement and Americans in general claiming it isn't.


You use "wet" so much to include everything from a blood soaked carpet, to vaginas, to PCP. The word basically has no meaning, so saying water is wet is dumb and I don't believe you.

Show me the statistics that prove water is wet and not moist or a neuro-illusion combining sensations of cold and texture to trick us into perceiving "wetness".


Water is sometimes wet.


When is water PCP? It's not! Proof wet is a meaningless word that people might as well stop using. Don't even get me started on moist supremacy.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
November 18 2017 06:12 GMT
#185349
On November 18 2017 05:50 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 05:29 Danglars wrote:


Hatch blew up at all the class warfare going on in his committee.


Social mobility in the US is extremely low, in fact among the lowest of the developed world. It's been shown over and over again that social mobility is not the result of upwards mobility (which factually does not exist) but shortening the ladder.And more importantly, pre-tax this holds for all developed countries.

Anecdotes about growing up in wooden shacks and making it to the upper class are precisely that, anecdotes.

+ Show Spoiler +
it is only after accounting for Denmark’s high taxes on the rich and large transfers to the poor that its social mobility looks so much better than the U.S.’s. America’s (relatively conservative) economic philosophy is that, with low taxes and little regulation, the market is an open savannah where the most talent will win out. But Denmark’s economic philosophy seems to be that the market is an unfortunate socioeconomic lottery system, and so the country compensates the poor with generous transfers paid by high taxes on the rich.

The second big idea in the paper is that Denmark’s large investment in public education pays off in higher cognitive skills among low-income children, but not in higher-education mobility—i.e., the odds that a child of a non-college grad will go on to finish college.

Overall, Denmark spends much more than the U.S. on all levels of education. In particular, a much higher share of its poor young children is enrolled in daycare and preschool than the United States. This large public investment in kids seems to increase cognitive skills among poor Danish children compared to their American peers. In international math and reading scores, for example, the poorest quartile in Denmark far outperforms their counterparts in the U.S.

But despite this far greater investment in young children and public colleges, Danish children of high-school graduates are still extremely unlikely to go onto college. Put slightly differently, a tiny share of Denmark’s college graduate population comes from homes where neither parent finished high school. The children of college-grads almost always go to college; the children of non-grads often don’t—even in Denmark.

Interesting choice to stop quoting that article. Here's the next paragraph:
The third big idea is that Denmark’s welfare policies might reduce its citizens’ incentives to go to college. In the early 1990s, when Denmark raised the minimum age of eligibility for social assistance, college enrollment among Danish twentysomethings fell below its trajectory. Based on this finding, the researchers conclude that welfare policies may reduce college enrollment. Denmark makes it more comfortable to be poor and less lucrative to be rich, so many young people decide to end their education after high school.

Also, it appears the bold would appear to be flat out contradicted by this:
It turns out that 12% of the population will find themselves in the top 1% of the income distribution for at least one year. What’s more, 39% of Americans will spend a year in the top 5% of the income distribution, 56% will find themselves in the top 10%, and a whopping 73% will spend a year in the top 20% of the income distribution.

Source

On a side note, the field of empirical economics is about one small step up from social psychology in terms of statistical rigor, and if I'm being honest, I don't take any result from that field very seriously (regardless of whether it aligns with or claims to provide against intuition). A noble goal, and perhaps better than flying totally blind, but in most cases worthless as a means to settle a debate. On another side note, it's a shame that most people have been trained to believe academics are some kind of ultimate authority when perhaps near half of academics are essentially statistically illiterate. (I don't mean to imply you are here btw; just a side rant)
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
November 18 2017 06:32 GMT
#185350
On November 18 2017 15:12 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 05:50 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 18 2017 05:29 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/OrrinHatch/status/931387205578317827

Hatch blew up at all the class warfare going on in his committee.


Social mobility in the US is extremely low, in fact among the lowest of the developed world. It's been shown over and over again that social mobility is not the result of upwards mobility (which factually does not exist) but shortening the ladder.And more importantly, pre-tax this holds for all developed countries.

Anecdotes about growing up in wooden shacks and making it to the upper class are precisely that, anecdotes.

+ Show Spoiler +
it is only after accounting for Denmark’s high taxes on the rich and large transfers to the poor that its social mobility looks so much better than the U.S.’s. America’s (relatively conservative) economic philosophy is that, with low taxes and little regulation, the market is an open savannah where the most talent will win out. But Denmark’s economic philosophy seems to be that the market is an unfortunate socioeconomic lottery system, and so the country compensates the poor with generous transfers paid by high taxes on the rich.

The second big idea in the paper is that Denmark’s large investment in public education pays off in higher cognitive skills among low-income children, but not in higher-education mobility—i.e., the odds that a child of a non-college grad will go on to finish college.

Overall, Denmark spends much more than the U.S. on all levels of education. In particular, a much higher share of its poor young children is enrolled in daycare and preschool than the United States. This large public investment in kids seems to increase cognitive skills among poor Danish children compared to their American peers. In international math and reading scores, for example, the poorest quartile in Denmark far outperforms their counterparts in the U.S.

But despite this far greater investment in young children and public colleges, Danish children of high-school graduates are still extremely unlikely to go onto college. Put slightly differently, a tiny share of Denmark’s college graduate population comes from homes where neither parent finished high school. The children of college-grads almost always go to college; the children of non-grads often don’t—even in Denmark.

Interesting choice to stop quoting that article. Here's the next paragraph:
Show nested quote +
The third big idea is that Denmark’s welfare policies might reduce its citizens’ incentives to go to college. In the early 1990s, when Denmark raised the minimum age of eligibility for social assistance, college enrollment among Danish twentysomethings fell below its trajectory. Based on this finding, the researchers conclude that welfare policies may reduce college enrollment. Denmark makes it more comfortable to be poor and less lucrative to be rich, so many young people decide to end their education after high school.

Also, it appears the bold would appear to be flat out contradicted by this:
Show nested quote +
It turns out that 12% of the population will find themselves in the top 1% of the income distribution for at least one year. What’s more, 39% of Americans will spend a year in the top 5% of the income distribution, 56% will find themselves in the top 10%, and a whopping 73% will spend a year in the top 20% of the income distribution.

Source

On a side note, the field of empirical economics is about one small step up from social psychology in terms of statistical rigor, and if I'm being honest, I don't take any result from that field very seriously (regardless of whether it aligns with or claims to provide against intuition). A noble goal, and perhaps better than flying totally blind, but in most cases worthless as a means to settle a debate. On another side note, it's a shame that most people have been trained to believe academics are some kind of ultimate authority when perhaps near half of academics are essentially statistically illiterate. (I don't mean to imply you are here btw; just a side rant)


I didn't look but does the "top 1% of income distribution account for the types of income?

Say someone liquidates their retirement to pay for medical bills? Are they included in the "spent at least one year at x%"

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-18 06:37:18
November 18 2017 06:33 GMT
#185351
You don't take empirical economics seriously? This isn't occult quantum physics. This relationship between inequality and mobility has been long known as the Gatsby curve and has been confirmed by much more than just a single study

And while we're on the topic of selectivity quoting. From that last source

Yet while many Americans will experience some level of affluence during their lives, a much smaller percentage of them will do so for an extended period of time. Although 12% of the population will experience a year in which they find
themselves in the top 1% of the income distribution, a mere 0.6% will do so in 10 consecutive years.


This makes it seem a lot more compatible with general findings on mobility
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
November 18 2017 06:52 GMT
#185352
On November 18 2017 15:33 Nyxisto wrote:
You don't take empirical economics seriously? This isn't occult quantum physics. This relationship between inequality and mobility has been long known as the Gatsby curve and has been confirmed by much more than just a single study

And while we're on the topic of selectivity quoting. From that last source

Show nested quote +
Yet while many Americans will experience some level of affluence during their lives, a much smaller percentage of them will do so for an extended period of time. Although 12% of the population will experience a year in which they find
themselves in the top 1% of the income distribution, a mere 0.6% will do so in 10 consecutive years.


This makes it seem a lot more compatible with general findings on mobility


That actually makes it seem even more mobile right? If 100% of people were in the top 1% for a decade of their life there'd be something funny going on.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8074 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-18 09:37:37
November 18 2017 09:34 GMT
#185353
The good laugh of the day:

anti lgbt christian lawmaker Wes Goodman resigns after having been caught having sex with another man in his office

I had to double check it was not satire. Although I always thought that homophobia and repressed homosexuality are two sides of the same coin.

Apparently he was called “the conscience of the conservative movement”, which seems to fit just ok.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 18 2017 09:53 GMT
#185354
Well we already had Ted Haggard so that seems like just the same old story.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9842 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-18 10:23:08
November 18 2017 10:00 GMT
#185355
On November 18 2017 14:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 11:13 IgnE wrote:
On November 18 2017 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 18 2017 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On November 18 2017 09:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
African-American men serve longer sentences than white men for the same crime, a new study by the U.S Sentencing Commission shows.

The commission's analysis of demographic prison data from 2012 to 2016 found that black men serve sentences that are on average 19.1 percent longer than those for white men for similar crimes.

The racial disparity in sentencing can't be accounted for by whether an offender has a history of violence, according to the study by the commission, an independent bipartisan agency that is part of the U.S. federal judiciary branch.

When accounting for violence in an offender's past, black men received sentences that were on average 20.4 percent longer than that of white men, according to the commission's analysis of fiscal year 2016 data, the only year for which such data is available.

Source

Water is wet, despite many members of congress, law enforcement and Americans in general claiming it isn't.


You use "wet" so much to include everything from a blood soaked carpet, to vaginas, to PCP. The word basically has no meaning, so saying water is wet is dumb and I don't believe you.

Show me the statistics that prove water is wet and not moist or a neuro-illusion combining sensations of cold and texture to trick us into perceiving "wetness".


Water is sometimes wet.


When is water PCP? It's not! Proof wet is a meaningless word that people might as well stop using. Don't even get me started on moist supremacy.


Stop putting your interpretation of water onto me. Water is just a social construct anyway.
RIP Meatloaf <3
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
November 18 2017 13:19 GMT
#185356
The US Navy doesn't like their members to dick around.

http://www.bbc.com/news/42032629
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
November 18 2017 13:21 GMT
#185357
On November 18 2017 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The good laugh of the day:

anti lgbt christian lawmaker Wes Goodman resigns after having been caught having sex with another man in his office

I had to double check it was not satire. Although I always thought that homophobia and repressed homosexuality are two sides of the same coin.

Apparently he was called “the conscience of the conservative movement”, which seems to fit just ok.

Yet more evidence in support of the notion that many of the most vigorous opponents of gay rights happen to be deep in the closet themselves. It would be tragic if these fucks weren't working so hard to keep the hate flowing.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
November 18 2017 13:32 GMT
#185358
On November 18 2017 22:21 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The good laugh of the day:

anti lgbt christian lawmaker Wes Goodman resigns after having been caught having sex with another man in his office

I had to double check it was not satire. Although I always thought that homophobia and repressed homosexuality are two sides of the same coin.

Apparently he was called “the conscience of the conservative movement”, which seems to fit just ok.

Yet more evidence in support of the notion that many of the most vigorous opponents of gay rights happen to be deep in the closet themselves. It would be tragic if these fucks weren't working so hard to keep the hate flowing.

It's kind of amazing how many of them are either in the closet themselves or are homophobes because they're afraid gay men will treat them the way they treat women.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 18 2017 15:13 GMT
#185359
On November 18 2017 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The good laugh of the day:

anti lgbt christian lawmaker Wes Goodman resigns after having been caught having sex with another man in his office

I had to double check it was not satire. Although I always thought that homophobia and repressed homosexuality are two sides of the same coin.

Apparently he was called “the conscience of the conservative movement”, which seems to fit just ok.

If we’re going for anecdotes, I always thought the big male celebrity “women’s rights” advocates were secretly abusers, because they knew they’d get a pass. That one turned out pretty good too.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8074 Posts
November 18 2017 15:21 GMT
#185360
On November 19 2017 00:13 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2017 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The good laugh of the day:

anti lgbt christian lawmaker Wes Goodman resigns after having been caught having sex with another man in his office

I had to double check it was not satire. Although I always thought that homophobia and repressed homosexuality are two sides of the same coin.

Apparently he was called “the conscience of the conservative movement”, which seems to fit just ok.

If we’re going for anecdotes, I always thought the big male celebrity “women’s rights” advocates were secretly abusers, because they knew they’d get a pass. That one turned out pretty good too.

Oh but simply being a hypocritical douche is not nearly as juicy as spending your life defending “family values” by making people’s life miserable and spreading hatred and biggotry simply because you hate yourself.

Right wing doesn’t have the monopoly of hypocrisy, but when they do it, geez, they deliver. I mean the guy spends his life attacking gays and is found with his cock in some dude’s mouth. Can’t make that up.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
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