EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9199
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:18 kollin wrote: Again in this thread people are getting bogged down in a discussion of 'what if X was done to you? Is that sexual assault? How about X in Y situation?' Which ignores the point. The point is if the action leads to the woman feeling uncomfortable, then you shouldn't do it. It doesn't mean that all men are awful mega pedos and should be locked up, but that men should just be careful with their actions and think things through - as everyone should! the questions were only meant to demonstrate the point that "it depends" is a hard answer when messing up is so punitive. mind reading is hard | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:17 WolfintheSheep wrote: Haven't you watched Hitch? 90/10. Inhaler optional. Just gonna say, if you (male or female) are learning your romance cues from Hollywood, you've probably already fucked up. says the guy referring to Hitch . . . | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:24 IgnE wrote: the questions were only meant to demonstrate the point that "it depends" is a hard answer when messing up is so punitive. mind reading is hard Just use words then. Ask. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:24 IgnE wrote: the questions were only meant to demonstrate the point that "it depends" is a hard answer when messing up is so punitive. mind reading is hard I don't think messing it up is that punitive though. Maybe if you're a famous actor or politician - but the vast majority of allegations against famous actors that have come out seem to be very substantial, purely based on the number. If the allegation is just one incident of a crude joke or whatever (see: Dustin Hoffman), then no one really cares. | ||
KwarK
United States43964 Posts
Ought not to be too controversial. If Louis CK had followed that he'd have avoided some trouble. | ||
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brian
United States9641 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28791 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:00 Plansix wrote: First dates and first attempts as physical affection are already super awkward. Asking "Is this cool?" isn't going move the needle. Entirely disagreed. 18 year old me would entirely agree, because back then I didn't know how to interpret signals. But then I grew older, got more experience, and eventually I figured out what degree of smiles and eye contact means 'kiss me, you fool'. Explicitly asking would from my own perspective AND from the perspective of girls I've specifically asked about this, ruin the moment. I think it's a really good thing that I wasn't charged with sexual assault that one time I, as an 18 year old, wrongly interpreted the situation and tried to kiss my classmate when we were dancing in a club. Because it wasn't - and when she pulled away her head and asked what are you doing? and I sheepishly answered 'nevermind nothing', that was the end of it, and I learned from the experience. Kids need to be allowed to make these kinds of mistakes. Yes, overall, a more consent based culture is an improvement, but not every aspect of the 'courtship-experience' has to involve the signing of contracts ensuring no miscommunication at any point has taken place. Yes, guys shouldn't badger women to sleep with them until they give in, they shouldn't assume it's fair game to grope her ass because she smiled to you, etc.. And I agree that while this should be common sense, a scarily large amount of guys seemingly don't really get it. But it's not the end of the world if you're a guy and you have a crush on a girl and she likes you as a friend and you try to initiate light physical contact, like you're in high school and you've spent 6 hours partying and then you walk her home and when she moves in for a hug, you move in for a kiss, she's lik wtf dude. That shit is gonna be awkward, but there's no point in making a bigger deal out of it than it is - you misinterpreted a signal. It's not a big deal. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I would like to read some of these sexual assault cases against men who went for a kiss on the first date and were rejected. Worse than Harry Potter slash fic. | ||
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KwarK
United States43964 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I would like to read some of these sexual assault cases against men who went for a kiss on the first date and were rejected. They're found at the bottom of a slippery slope that doesn't exist. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
edit: All I'll say on the subject is the women in almost all these cases have no reason to lie. They're obviously not. And I've seen, as I'm sure many have, how employers and power-players sexually-prey on the women they work with, or that work for them. To me it's a very satisfying cultural shift to see this exposed. Except in the case of Hoffman. That sucks. Because his role as "Tootsie" really was a beginning step towards shining a light on workplace sex-harassment. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:31 Plansix wrote: This entire process is not that complex. When women agree to date men, there is this assumption that making out is a possible outcome. It is not awkward to double check to make sure it's still on the table. actually it is pretty complex, like most human interaction. courtship in particular is some of the most complex phenomena out there. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23929 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I would like to read some of these sexual assault cases against men who went for a kiss on the first date and were rejected. It's more about the type of women who go to clubs/bars to get groped, taken home, and aggressively sexually dominated and the girls that get mistaken for them. You don't even want to know about walking this line as a black man in the US. | ||
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KwarK
United States43964 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:37 IgnE wrote: actually it is pretty complex, like most human interaction. courtship in particular is some of the most complex phenomena out there. Achieving it without assaulting anyone is super easy. If you're planning on doing something sexual and you're not sure if they're into it, check. Really not all that complex. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:37 IgnE wrote: actually it is pretty complex, like most human interaction. courtship in particular is some of the most complex phenomena out there. Yeah, but our brains and hormones do most of the heavy lifting. The rest comes down to communication skills and not being a total potato. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I would like to read some of these sexual assault cases against men who went for a kiss on the first date and were rejected. id like to read about some "sexual assault cases" agains louis ck. how about that? i guess since he doesnt have any "cases" pending against him hes living the high life | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:39 KwarK wrote: Achieving it without assaulting anyone is super easy. being a lifelong virgin is pretty easy too. drone makes the case well thats its not so easy. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 10 2017 08:14 kollin wrote: An unwanted kiss usually isn't sexual assault, but it can easily contribute to an atmosphere in which women feel uncomfortable. I think that's the point of the whole #metoo thing - it's not necessarily that awful crimes against women are being committed by all men all the time, but that a lot of men with good intentions can unwittingly contribute to an atmosphere which makes women feel permanently uncomfortable. Unwanted kissing (and unwanted sexual touching) are routinely reported as sexual assault to sum up survey results—particularly in surveys of campus sexual assault. | ||
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