|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 26 2017 03:11 brian wrote:
man so it really boils down to average joe white feeling like the victim here?
yes; an unjustified feeling of victimhood is indeed at the root of alot of this. politicians and other feeds that victimhood narrative, cuz it lets them blame some "other" for their problems rather than themselves, or forces beyond anyone's control, and thus helps those politicians win elections. and they won't admit they're basically playing the victim card as they so often historically accused the left of doing.
|
On September 26 2017 03:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On average, I like it when athletes voice their political opinions. But not always. I would have thought much higher of Paulo Di Canio if he hadn't. Generally though, athletes are role models and I want more people to involve themselves in politics and to be politically conscious.  How is calling the country racist being a role model? This has been my point about these racial issues all along: the free use of the term "racist" to defame a huge percentage of the country's population will never accomplish anything more than render the debate toxic and further polarize the sides. Police brutality is not a racial issue, but these idiots can't help themselves but make it one. They aren't unifying the country to solve a problem. They are further dividing it.
What if the country is racist, and this is not a defamation but a statement of fact?
|
On September 26 2017 03:17 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:11 brian wrote:
man so it really boils down to average joe white feeling like the victim here? His arguments are all built upon the assumption that racism just isn't an issue in the US, and so necessarily any talk of racism is just unfair harassment of white people. His arguments that follow sound reasonable enough if you follow the assumption, but it's a pretty big one to make. White privilege lets you make that assumption though.
Try again, junior.
|
On September 26 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 00:59 Velr wrote:
@reality
If you would start your statements with a reason or even a little argument, posters probably would react diffrently to you.
There have been plenty of people as far out there, compared to most people here, as you that managed to get into actual discussions.
Most not long term but well, atleast there were actual exchanges. About half of the people responding to him are shitposting. Singling RiK out for the shittiness in the thread is badly misplaced.
He's single out because the connection between his username and post content is glorious.
+ Show Spoiler +actually that might just be me
Also andy murray calls himself a feminist. Fucking scumbag mixing sports and politics!
|
Norway28876 Posts
On September 26 2017 03:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On average, I like it when athletes voice their political opinions. But not always. I would have thought much higher of Paulo Di Canio if he hadn't. Generally though, athletes are role models and I want more people to involve themselves in politics and to be politically conscious. How is calling the country racist being a role model? This has been my point about these racial issues all along: the free use of the term "racist" to defame a huge percentage of the country's population will never accomplish anything more than render the debate toxic and further polarize the sides. Police brutality is not a racial issue, but these idiots can't help themselves but make it one. They aren't unifying the country to solve a problem. They are further dividing it.
I think most people are pretty bad at expressing themselves in ways that foster productive discussion, and I'd be very happy if the racist term was used far less than it is because it's so loaded and even if it's technically possible to make the case that a lot of behavior displayed from a whole lot of people is racist, it's also predictably going to be perceived as an insult halting the productive discussion.
However, from what I've seen, I think there's a lot of legitimacy to the argument that police brutality is a racial issue and that there is a racial divide in how white and black people are treated by the police and justice system in the US. (Even if you can also make the case that a lot of this is based on poverty lines rather than race, I don't see how you can claim that race isn't an element, for example black people driving expensive cars being suspected of having stolen them much more frequently than white people, or a rich black guy forgetting his keys and trying to climb into his window being perceived as a burglar much more so than the rich white guy doing the same.)
|
On September 26 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:18 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:04 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 02:54 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 02:52 Emnjay808 wrote:
I was wondering why the NFL thread hardly had any political talk, but it was all here lol. Now I got something to distract me from studying o/ Like I said last night, people generally don't want to mix sports and politics. And this is one of the reasons why the NFL is going to be the big loser in all of this. Viewers don't want to be confronted with these ethics issues while watching sports. But the athletes themselves have identities and personalities and have shown a willingness to express their beliefs. No matter what job someone is doing, they are still a human and should not be silenced or discouraged from speaking out. It keeps feeling like some people see sports like the military or something. Like these guys are expected to be stoic or something. There are a few things at work here. First, people don't want to be bombarded with politics in their entertainment unless they're actively seeking politics out. Second, the message at issue here is a particularly toxic one that people really don't want to be beaten over the head with. Average Joe Whitey doesn't want to hear people tell him that his country is racist, which necessarily implies that he is racist. Third, Average Joe Whitey really doesn't want to hear this message from a bunch of patently privileged sports athletes who earn millions of dollars per year and, for all intents and purposes, live in fantasy land. The problem to me is that people see an accusation of racism as an irremovable stain on their character, rather than something that also isn't really their fault, just something that they should acknowledge and try to improve. If a black person says they feel discriminated against, there is no reason - not even wealth - to disbelieve them. Of course people see it as a stain on their character rather than just another adjective. Look at how the Left uses the term for its political purposes. Look at how Leftist posters use the term around here. The intent is clearly defamatory, and the response from anyone to whom the Left tries to attach this label rightfully will be somewhere between "fuck you" and "I hope you get run over by a bus."
Where 'the Left' (possibly the worst of the all-encompassing generalisation made) call someone racist, it is fairly often because they are. Sometimes they are not racist, and 'the Left' (whatever this means) is mistaken, but that's OK because if no one is allowed to call anyone racist, which is surely the alternative, then racism will never get called out. If 'the Left' (in this case the people kneeling) protest structural racism, then they have called the system racist which we can, with some thought, establish as a nuanced criticism of both our institutions and individuals within society. Its not an insult to anyone, just an observation. Just because Joe Whitey is too sensitive to accept that observation doesn't mean it isn't true.
|
On September 26 2017 03:30 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:18 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:04 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 02:54 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 02:52 Emnjay808 wrote:
I was wondering why the NFL thread hardly had any political talk, but it was all here lol. Now I got something to distract me from studying o/ Like I said last night, people generally don't want to mix sports and politics. And this is one of the reasons why the NFL is going to be the big loser in all of this. Viewers don't want to be confronted with these ethics issues while watching sports. But the athletes themselves have identities and personalities and have shown a willingness to express their beliefs. No matter what job someone is doing, they are still a human and should not be silenced or discouraged from speaking out. It keeps feeling like some people see sports like the military or something. Like these guys are expected to be stoic or something. There are a few things at work here. First, people don't want to be bombarded with politics in their entertainment unless they're actively seeking politics out. Second, the message at issue here is a particularly toxic one that people really don't want to be beaten over the head with. Average Joe Whitey doesn't want to hear people tell him that his country is racist, which necessarily implies that he is racist. Third, Average Joe Whitey really doesn't want to hear this message from a bunch of patently privileged sports athletes who earn millions of dollars per year and, for all intents and purposes, live in fantasy land. The problem to me is that people see an accusation of racism as an irremovable stain on their character, rather than something that also isn't really their fault, just something that they should acknowledge and try to improve. If a black person says they feel discriminated against, there is no reason - not even wealth - to disbelieve them. Of course people see it as a stain on their character rather than just another adjective. Look at how the Left uses the term for its political purposes. Look at how Leftist posters use the term around here. The intent is clearly defamatory, and the response from anyone to whom the Left tries to attach this label rightfully will be somewhere between "fuck you" and "I hope you get run over by a bus." Where 'the Left' (possibly the worst of the all-encompassing generalisation made) call someone racist, it is fairly often because they are. Sometimes they are not racist, and 'the Left' (whatever this means) is mistaken, but that's OK because if no one is allowed to call anyone racist, which is surely the alternative, then racism will never get called out. If 'the Left' (in this case the people kneeling) protest structural racism, then they have called the system racist which we can, with some thought, establish as a nuanced criticism of both our institutions and individuals within society. Its not an insult to anyone, just an observation. Just because Joe Whitey is too sensitive to accept that observation doesn't mean it isn't true.
Do you think that 40%+ of the country is racist? That's the argument that is being advanced by the Left and many posters here. That is a very clear overuse of the term.
|
French news just had a piece on Kaepernick and they went with "to protest the murders of african american people by police". I just like that they went with that word over something more neutral like "deaths", it caught me off guard when I heard it.
|
On September 26 2017 03:29 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:16 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On average, I like it when athletes voice their political opinions. But not always. I would have thought much higher of Paulo Di Canio if he hadn't. Generally though, athletes are role models and I want more people to involve themselves in politics and to be politically conscious. How is calling the country racist being a role model? This has been my point about these racial issues all along: the free use of the term "racist" to defame a huge percentage of the country's population will never accomplish anything more than render the debate toxic and further polarize the sides. Police brutality is not a racial issue, but these idiots can't help themselves but make it one. They aren't unifying the country to solve a problem. They are further dividing it. I think most people are pretty bad at expressing themselves in ways that foster productive discussion, and I'd be very happy if the racist term was used far less than it is because it's so loaded and even if it's technically possible to make the case that a lot of behavior displayed from a whole lot of people is racist, it's also predictably going to be perceived as an insult halting the productive discussion. However, from what I've seen, I think there's a lot of legitimacy to the argument that police brutality is a racial issue and that there is a racial divide in how white and black people are treated by the police and justice system in the US. (Even if you can also make the case that a lot of this is based on poverty lines rather than race, I don't see how you can claim that race isn't an element, for example black people driving expensive cars being suspected of having stolen them much more frequently than white people, or a rich black guy forgetting his keys and trying to climb into his window being perceived as a burglar much more so than the rich white guy doing the same.)
Again, disparate impact is not and should not be considered the same thing as racism. Shitty policing is a universal issue that can and should be dealt with on a race-neutral basis.
|
On September 26 2017 03:32 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:30 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:18 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:04 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 02:54 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 02:52 Emnjay808 wrote:
I was wondering why the NFL thread hardly had any political talk, but it was all here lol. Now I got something to distract me from studying o/ Like I said last night, people generally don't want to mix sports and politics. And this is one of the reasons why the NFL is going to be the big loser in all of this. Viewers don't want to be confronted with these ethics issues while watching sports. But the athletes themselves have identities and personalities and have shown a willingness to express their beliefs. No matter what job someone is doing, they are still a human and should not be silenced or discouraged from speaking out. It keeps feeling like some people see sports like the military or something. Like these guys are expected to be stoic or something. There are a few things at work here. First, people don't want to be bombarded with politics in their entertainment unless they're actively seeking politics out. Second, the message at issue here is a particularly toxic one that people really don't want to be beaten over the head with. Average Joe Whitey doesn't want to hear people tell him that his country is racist, which necessarily implies that he is racist. Third, Average Joe Whitey really doesn't want to hear this message from a bunch of patently privileged sports athletes who earn millions of dollars per year and, for all intents and purposes, live in fantasy land. The problem to me is that people see an accusation of racism as an irremovable stain on their character, rather than something that also isn't really their fault, just something that they should acknowledge and try to improve. If a black person says they feel discriminated against, there is no reason - not even wealth - to disbelieve them. Of course people see it as a stain on their character rather than just another adjective. Look at how the Left uses the term for its political purposes. Look at how Leftist posters use the term around here. The intent is clearly defamatory, and the response from anyone to whom the Left tries to attach this label rightfully will be somewhere between "fuck you" and "I hope you get run over by a bus." Where 'the Left' (possibly the worst of the all-encompassing generalisation made) call someone racist, it is fairly often because they are. Sometimes they are not racist, and 'the Left' (whatever this means) is mistaken, but that's OK because if no one is allowed to call anyone racist, which is surely the alternative, then racism will never get called out. If 'the Left' (in this case the people kneeling) protest structural racism, then they have called the system racist which we can, with some thought, establish as a nuanced criticism of both our institutions and individuals within society. Its not an insult to anyone, just an observation. Just because Joe Whitey is too sensitive to accept that observation doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you think that 40%+ of the country is racist? That's the argument that is being advanced by the Left and many posters here. That is a very clear overuse of the term.
It's very clear that your usage of racism is very apologetic towards perpetrators so feel free to accept differing opinions on that one.
|
On September 26 2017 03:35 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:32 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:30 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:18 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:04 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 02:54 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 02:52 Emnjay808 wrote:
I was wondering why the NFL thread hardly had any political talk, but it was all here lol. Now I got something to distract me from studying o/ Like I said last night, people generally don't want to mix sports and politics. And this is one of the reasons why the NFL is going to be the big loser in all of this. Viewers don't want to be confronted with these ethics issues while watching sports. But the athletes themselves have identities and personalities and have shown a willingness to express their beliefs. No matter what job someone is doing, they are still a human and should not be silenced or discouraged from speaking out. It keeps feeling like some people see sports like the military or something. Like these guys are expected to be stoic or something. There are a few things at work here. First, people don't want to be bombarded with politics in their entertainment unless they're actively seeking politics out. Second, the message at issue here is a particularly toxic one that people really don't want to be beaten over the head with. Average Joe Whitey doesn't want to hear people tell him that his country is racist, which necessarily implies that he is racist. Third, Average Joe Whitey really doesn't want to hear this message from a bunch of patently privileged sports athletes who earn millions of dollars per year and, for all intents and purposes, live in fantasy land. The problem to me is that people see an accusation of racism as an irremovable stain on their character, rather than something that also isn't really their fault, just something that they should acknowledge and try to improve. If a black person says they feel discriminated against, there is no reason - not even wealth - to disbelieve them. Of course people see it as a stain on their character rather than just another adjective. Look at how the Left uses the term for its political purposes. Look at how Leftist posters use the term around here. The intent is clearly defamatory, and the response from anyone to whom the Left tries to attach this label rightfully will be somewhere between "fuck you" and "I hope you get run over by a bus." Where 'the Left' (possibly the worst of the all-encompassing generalisation made) call someone racist, it is fairly often because they are. Sometimes they are not racist, and 'the Left' (whatever this means) is mistaken, but that's OK because if no one is allowed to call anyone racist, which is surely the alternative, then racism will never get called out. If 'the Left' (in this case the people kneeling) protest structural racism, then they have called the system racist which we can, with some thought, establish as a nuanced criticism of both our institutions and individuals within society. Its not an insult to anyone, just an observation. Just because Joe Whitey is too sensitive to accept that observation doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you think that 40%+ of the country is racist? That's the argument that is being advanced by the Left and many posters here. That is a very clear overuse of the term. It's very clear that your usage of racism is very apologetic towards perpetrators so feel free to accept differing opinions on that one.
Of course I'm going to be apologetic towards the "racists" when the entire republican party and all conservatives/right-wingers are being labeled "racists." It's a patently absurd use of the term.
And I find it very telling that y'all won't concede either that this is an overuse of the term or that this use of the term has a negative impact on discourse.
|
On September 26 2017 03:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:29 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 26 2017 03:16 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On average, I like it when athletes voice their political opinions. But not always. I would have thought much higher of Paulo Di Canio if he hadn't. Generally though, athletes are role models and I want more people to involve themselves in politics and to be politically conscious. How is calling the country racist being a role model? This has been my point about these racial issues all along: the free use of the term "racist" to defame a huge percentage of the country's population will never accomplish anything more than render the debate toxic and further polarize the sides. Police brutality is not a racial issue, but these idiots can't help themselves but make it one. They aren't unifying the country to solve a problem. They are further dividing it. I think most people are pretty bad at expressing themselves in ways that foster productive discussion, and I'd be very happy if the racist term was used far less than it is because it's so loaded and even if it's technically possible to make the case that a lot of behavior displayed from a whole lot of people is racist, it's also predictably going to be perceived as an insult halting the productive discussion. However, from what I've seen, I think there's a lot of legitimacy to the argument that police brutality is a racial issue and that there is a racial divide in how white and black people are treated by the police and justice system in the US. (Even if you can also make the case that a lot of this is based on poverty lines rather than race, I don't see how you can claim that race isn't an element, for example black people driving expensive cars being suspected of having stolen them much more frequently than white people, or a rich black guy forgetting his keys and trying to climb into his window being perceived as a burglar much more so than the rich white guy doing the same.) Again, disparate impact is not and should not be considered the same thing as racism. Shitty policing is a universal issue that can and should be dealt with on a race-neutral basis.
No, it should not. Not even by a long shot. Stop trying to separate things so that you feel better about talking about them/avoiding them. We would not be talking about police brutality if not for these protests and blacks PoC bringing them up. We'd be back to the era before social media.
Also, no one in here is calling 48% of the country racist. But you make it hard not to paint everyone with a broad brush.
|
On September 26 2017 03:32 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:30 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:18 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:04 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 02:54 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 02:52 Emnjay808 wrote:
I was wondering why the NFL thread hardly had any political talk, but it was all here lol. Now I got something to distract me from studying o/ Like I said last night, people generally don't want to mix sports and politics. And this is one of the reasons why the NFL is going to be the big loser in all of this. Viewers don't want to be confronted with these ethics issues while watching sports. But the athletes themselves have identities and personalities and have shown a willingness to express their beliefs. No matter what job someone is doing, they are still a human and should not be silenced or discouraged from speaking out. It keeps feeling like some people see sports like the military or something. Like these guys are expected to be stoic or something. There are a few things at work here. First, people don't want to be bombarded with politics in their entertainment unless they're actively seeking politics out. Second, the message at issue here is a particularly toxic one that people really don't want to be beaten over the head with. Average Joe Whitey doesn't want to hear people tell him that his country is racist, which necessarily implies that he is racist. Third, Average Joe Whitey really doesn't want to hear this message from a bunch of patently privileged sports athletes who earn millions of dollars per year and, for all intents and purposes, live in fantasy land. The problem to me is that people see an accusation of racism as an irremovable stain on their character, rather than something that also isn't really their fault, just something that they should acknowledge and try to improve. If a black person says they feel discriminated against, there is no reason - not even wealth - to disbelieve them. Of course people see it as a stain on their character rather than just another adjective. Look at how the Left uses the term for its political purposes. Look at how Leftist posters use the term around here. The intent is clearly defamatory, and the response from anyone to whom the Left tries to attach this label rightfully will be somewhere between "fuck you" and "I hope you get run over by a bus." Where 'the Left' (possibly the worst of the all-encompassing generalisation made) call someone racist, it is fairly often because they are. Sometimes they are not racist, and 'the Left' (whatever this means) is mistaken, but that's OK because if no one is allowed to call anyone racist, which is surely the alternative, then racism will never get called out. If 'the Left' (in this case the people kneeling) protest structural racism, then they have called the system racist which we can, with some thought, establish as a nuanced criticism of both our institutions and individuals within society. Its not an insult to anyone, just an observation. Just because Joe Whitey is too sensitive to accept that observation doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you think that 40%+ of the country is racist? That's the argument that is being advanced by the Left and many posters here. That is a very clear overuse of the term.
I'm honestly not sure. I understand the point that the posters putting forward that idea have - 40% of the country voting for a party so obviously full of racists, and for a president that seems to himself be completely happy to court white supremacist groups shows that racial issues, for a lot of people, just aren't as important as the economy or healthcare or whatever. I don't think that makes them racist, but I can see why the argument could be made that it does, and quite frankly my own whiteness will have an influence on the fact I think that' I do think that the vast majority of Trump voters are intensely, intensely ignorant - of the advantages that being white gives you, of the reality of being black today, of the form that racism can take today. I'm not sure they care about making themselves less ignorant either, and maybe that is enough to make them racist.
|
On September 26 2017 03:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:35 Artisreal wrote:On September 26 2017 03:32 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:30 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:18 kollin wrote:On September 26 2017 03:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:04 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 02:54 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 02:52 Emnjay808 wrote:
I was wondering why the NFL thread hardly had any political talk, but it was all here lol. Now I got something to distract me from studying o/ Like I said last night, people generally don't want to mix sports and politics. And this is one of the reasons why the NFL is going to be the big loser in all of this. Viewers don't want to be confronted with these ethics issues while watching sports. But the athletes themselves have identities and personalities and have shown a willingness to express their beliefs. No matter what job someone is doing, they are still a human and should not be silenced or discouraged from speaking out. It keeps feeling like some people see sports like the military or something. Like these guys are expected to be stoic or something. There are a few things at work here. First, people don't want to be bombarded with politics in their entertainment unless they're actively seeking politics out. Second, the message at issue here is a particularly toxic one that people really don't want to be beaten over the head with. Average Joe Whitey doesn't want to hear people tell him that his country is racist, which necessarily implies that he is racist. Third, Average Joe Whitey really doesn't want to hear this message from a bunch of patently privileged sports athletes who earn millions of dollars per year and, for all intents and purposes, live in fantasy land. The problem to me is that people see an accusation of racism as an irremovable stain on their character, rather than something that also isn't really their fault, just something that they should acknowledge and try to improve. If a black person says they feel discriminated against, there is no reason - not even wealth - to disbelieve them. Of course people see it as a stain on their character rather than just another adjective. Look at how the Left uses the term for its political purposes. Look at how Leftist posters use the term around here. The intent is clearly defamatory, and the response from anyone to whom the Left tries to attach this label rightfully will be somewhere between "fuck you" and "I hope you get run over by a bus." Where 'the Left' (possibly the worst of the all-encompassing generalisation made) call someone racist, it is fairly often because they are. Sometimes they are not racist, and 'the Left' (whatever this means) is mistaken, but that's OK because if no one is allowed to call anyone racist, which is surely the alternative, then racism will never get called out. If 'the Left' (in this case the people kneeling) protest structural racism, then they have called the system racist which we can, with some thought, establish as a nuanced criticism of both our institutions and individuals within society. Its not an insult to anyone, just an observation. Just because Joe Whitey is too sensitive to accept that observation doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you think that 40%+ of the country is racist? That's the argument that is being advanced by the Left and many posters here. That is a very clear overuse of the term. It's very clear that your usage of racism is very apologetic towards perpetrators so feel free to accept differing opinions on that one. Of course I'm going to be apologetic towards the "racists" when the entire republican party and all conservatives/right-wingers are being labeled "racists." It's a patently absurd use of the term. And I find it very telling that y'all won't concede either that this is an overuse of the term or that this use of the term has a negative impact on discourse.
I would accept it has a negative impact on discourse, but I don't think that is the fault of the people using it.
|
|
|
This is just like feminism. We need a different word. Racism and feminism are essentially dead as tools of discourse. We need to get more specific and use words suited for certain applications. So long as they don't actively lynch people, you will never get a rural white to admit they have "racist" positions or feelings.
I honestly think this entire issue needs to be redesigned and redone. If nothing else, it is plain and simply ineffective from the left. This issue has helped rally support within the party, but no minds are being changed.
Racism, as a term, is extremely charged, non-specific and...well...EXTREMELY...CHARGED. There is so much mental auto-correct that takes place as soon as the word is uttered.
|
On September 26 2017 03:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 03:34 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:29 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 26 2017 03:16 xDaunt wrote:On September 26 2017 03:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On average, I like it when athletes voice their political opinions. But not always. I would have thought much higher of Paulo Di Canio if he hadn't. Generally though, athletes are role models and I want more people to involve themselves in politics and to be politically conscious. How is calling the country racist being a role model? This has been my point about these racial issues all along: the free use of the term "racist" to defame a huge percentage of the country's population will never accomplish anything more than render the debate toxic and further polarize the sides. Police brutality is not a racial issue, but these idiots can't help themselves but make it one. They aren't unifying the country to solve a problem. They are further dividing it. I think most people are pretty bad at expressing themselves in ways that foster productive discussion, and I'd be very happy if the racist term was used far less than it is because it's so loaded and even if it's technically possible to make the case that a lot of behavior displayed from a whole lot of people is racist, it's also predictably going to be perceived as an insult halting the productive discussion. However, from what I've seen, I think there's a lot of legitimacy to the argument that police brutality is a racial issue and that there is a racial divide in how white and black people are treated by the police and justice system in the US. (Even if you can also make the case that a lot of this is based on poverty lines rather than race, I don't see how you can claim that race isn't an element, for example black people driving expensive cars being suspected of having stolen them much more frequently than white people, or a rich black guy forgetting his keys and trying to climb into his window being perceived as a burglar much more so than the rich white guy doing the same.) Again, disparate impact is not and should not be considered the same thing as racism. Shitty policing is a universal issue that can and should be dealt with on a race-neutral basis. No, it should not. Not even by a long shot. Stop trying to separate things so that you feel better about talking about them/avoiding them. We would not be talking about police brutality if not for these protests and blacks PoC bringing them up. We'd be back to the era before social media. Also, no one in here is calling 48% of the country racist. But you make it hard not to paint everyone with a broad brush.
You haven't been around enough long enough to make this pronouncement. A number of liberal posters have made this charge. Kwark immediately comes to mind, and I could very easily find others if I was so inclined.
|
Calling everything that moves racist or fascist or misogynist has the result of devaluing the term in modern usage in a way such that you end up with a "boy who cried wolf" scenario. What do you expect?
|
Ivanka Trump, the first daughter and adviser to the president, used a personal email address to communicate with a government official after her father took office, according to documents that the nonprofit American Oversight obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and shared exclusively with Newsweek.
The documents show that on February 28, Trump—identifying herself as Ivanka Kushner—emailed Linda McMahon, the administrator of the United States Small Business Administration, from a personal domain. At the time, Trump was operating inside the White House in a non-official capacity. She wrote that she wanted McMahon’s agency and her staff to “explore opportunities to collaborate” on issues related to “women’s entrepreneurship.” She copied on the correspondence the government email addresses for two other federal employees, Dina Powell and Julie Radford.
Source
So at this point who isn't using their private email.
|
On September 26 2017 03:46 Mohdoo wrote:
This is just like feminism. We need a different word. Racism and feminism are essentially dead as tools of discourse. We need to get more specific and use words suited for certain applications. So long as they don't actively lynch people, you will never get a rural white to admit they have "racist" positions or feelings.
I honestly think this entire issue needs to be redesigned and redone. If nothing else, it is plain and simply ineffective from the left. This issue has helped rally support within the party, but no minds are being changed.
Racism, as a term, is extremely charged, non-specific and...well...EXTREMELY...CHARGED. There is so much mental auto-correct that takes place as soon as the word is uttered.
The word "racism" is used because there is no other word for it. You can't change the meaning, nor can you substitute another word into its place. Feminism has bee changed and adopted by so many people, it's lost its meaning and what it originally stood for.
Being called a racist may be uncomfortable for some, but there's a reason why you may have been called that. (not you in particular)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
