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My position on nazis etc should be clear, so let me ask you this without that stupid whataboutism.
What Danglars is asking is actually very reasonable if you see it purely from a "violence" standpoint. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to acknowledge that violence is bad. Flatout. It doesn't matter which side does it. Like it or not (and i don't, i personally find the german system of flatout banning such rallies better), they do have the right to have these rallies. You might (actually: should) disagree with it, but as long as they keep it "peaceful", tough shit.
There is no "but the left does it for the right reasons". That's the same fucking retarded justification trump used in his "we need to go after the families" bullshit. Violence is never for the right reasons. There's no "yeah boohoo he took the flag", there's simply: someone took that stupid flag, and shouldn't have done it.
It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw.
Do you condemn every act of violence committed by a conservative on the face of the planet, past, present and future? And all acts of racism by conservatives too, let's get that out of the way too.
In case it matters, yes, i do. I don't make that idiotic differentiation between "good violence" and "bad violence".
Btw, democrats can be racist too. Lets get that out of the way really, really fast.
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I admit that water is wet and gravity holds me to the earth all day. And that violence is bad. Reductive discussions are also bad, but this is what it has come to.
Ok now that we are done establishing the basics, let's go back to talking about how terrible racist white supremists are.
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Nah, there really isn't much point in circlejerking, is there. Even Danglars, xDaunt etc condemned the rallies/violence.
We all know that racism is bad. Problem being that some think certain violence is not.
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![[image loading]](https://am13.akamaized.net/med/cnt/uploads/2017/08/Screen-Shot-2017-08-19-at-6.27.02-PM.jpg)
Organizer of the charlottesville rally deleted his twitter after tweeting out this gem
Even Richard Spencer thinks it went too far
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On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:My position on nazis etc should be clear, so let me ask you this without that stupid whataboutism. What Danglars is asking is actually very reasonable if you see it purely from a "violence" standpoint. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to acknowledge that violence is bad. Flatout. It doesn't matter which side does it. Like it or not (and i don't, i personally find the german system of flatout banning such rallies better), they do have the right to have these rallies. You might (actually: should) disagree with it, but as long as they keep it "peaceful", tough shit. There is no "but the left does it for the right reasons". That's the same fucking retarded justification trump used in his "we need to go after the families" bullshit. Violence is never for the right reasons. There's no "yeah boohoo he took the flag", there's simply: someone took that stupid flag, and shouldn't have done it. It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw. Show nested quote +Do you condemn every act of violence committed by a conservative on the face of the planet, past, present and future? And all acts of racism by conservatives too, let's get that out of the way too.
In case it matters, yes, i do. I don't make that idiotic differentiation between "good violence" and "bad violence". Btw, democrats can be racist too. Lets get that out of the way really, really fast.
Morally, ethically, legally, all of it applies a concept of a degree of wrongdoing. Taking a flag, bad. How bad? Depends on the person, but I would saying on the level of slap on the wrist and warning or minor fine. Or just apology and return.
Why is that being compared to driving a truck into a crowd with the intent to kill or severely injure?
Like, is there even any point to this conversation that isn't just a fake gotcha?
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On August 20 2017 08:37 Plansix wrote:
Danglars is here to make sure we all know that the left is bad, Mayor Martie Walsh helped them hurt conservatives and we should all ignore the fact the leader of our country only denounced Nazis when forced. And didn't mean it. Our president to date had not denounced nazis and meant it. Both sides folks, both sides.
lmao its cute seeing him adopt the Trump approach to morality. Everything shitty about yourself or someone you identify with? Just do everything you can to paint that on whoever your "other" group is and then pat yourself on the back for deciding everyone else is just as bad.
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On August 20 2017 08:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:My position on nazis etc should be clear, so let me ask you this without that stupid whataboutism. What Danglars is asking is actually very reasonable if you see it purely from a "violence" standpoint. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to acknowledge that violence is bad. Flatout. It doesn't matter which side does it. Like it or not (and i don't, i personally find the german system of flatout banning such rallies better), they do have the right to have these rallies. You might (actually: should) disagree with it, but as long as they keep it "peaceful", tough shit. There is no "but the left does it for the right reasons". That's the same fucking retarded justification trump used in his "we need to go after the families" bullshit. Violence is never for the right reasons. There's no "yeah boohoo he took the flag", there's simply: someone took that stupid flag, and shouldn't have done it. It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw. Do you condemn every act of violence committed by a conservative on the face of the planet, past, present and future? And all acts of racism by conservatives too, let's get that out of the way too.
In case it matters, yes, i do. I don't make that idiotic differentiation between "good violence" and "bad violence". Btw, democrats can be racist too. Lets get that out of the way really, really fast. Morally, ethically, legally, all of it applies a concept of a degree of wrongdoing. Taking a flag, bad. How bad? Depends on the person, but I would saying on the level of slap on the wrist and warning or minor fine. Or just apology and return. Why is that being compared to driving a truck into a crowd with the intent to kill or severely injure? Like, is there even any point to this conversation that isn't just a fake gotcha?
So what you're saying is that there only was a single violent person in the charlottesville rally, if that's your measuring stick?
All the fuzz about that one fucking puddingface that should get the chair for it?
Right. Stop being intellectually dishonest.
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The key difference between people in this thread and Trump is the Nazis and KKK member have said they support Trump. They think this is their time. And he hasn't denounced them(the only where he took it back 24 hours later doesn't count), which only reinforces that belief.
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On August 20 2017 08:56 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 08:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:My position on nazis etc should be clear, so let me ask you this without that stupid whataboutism. What Danglars is asking is actually very reasonable if you see it purely from a "violence" standpoint. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to acknowledge that violence is bad. Flatout. It doesn't matter which side does it. Like it or not (and i don't, i personally find the german system of flatout banning such rallies better), they do have the right to have these rallies. You might (actually: should) disagree with it, but as long as they keep it "peaceful", tough shit. There is no "but the left does it for the right reasons". That's the same fucking retarded justification trump used in his "we need to go after the families" bullshit. Violence is never for the right reasons. There's no "yeah boohoo he took the flag", there's simply: someone took that stupid flag, and shouldn't have done it. It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw. Do you condemn every act of violence committed by a conservative on the face of the planet, past, present and future? And all acts of racism by conservatives too, let's get that out of the way too.
In case it matters, yes, i do. I don't make that idiotic differentiation between "good violence" and "bad violence". Btw, democrats can be racist too. Lets get that out of the way really, really fast. Morally, ethically, legally, all of it applies a concept of a degree of wrongdoing. Taking a flag, bad. How bad? Depends on the person, but I would saying on the level of slap on the wrist and warning or minor fine. Or just apology and return. Why is that being compared to driving a truck into a crowd with the intent to kill or severely injure? Like, is there even any point to this conversation that isn't just a fake gotcha? So what you're saying is that there only was a single violent person in the charlottesville rally, if that's your measuring stick? All the fuzz about that one fucking puddingface that should get the chair for it? Right. Stop being intellectually dishonest.
The key is that the few violent protesters do not discredit the rest of the protesters. One side is Nazis and the others are people opposing Nazis. Violence being equal on both sides, one side is still Nazis. But the constant citation of the violent opposition protesters is used as a way to draw false equivalency. Which is what Danglars is doing now. And that trick has been used since the pre-civil war era.
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On August 20 2017 08:57 Plansix wrote:
The key difference between people in this thread and Trump is the Nazis and KKK member have said they support Trump. They think this is their time. And he hasn't denounced them(the only where he took it back 24 hours later doesn't count), which only reinforces that belief.
You have an extremely weird concept of key difference, i think.
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On August 20 2017 08:56 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 08:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:My position on nazis etc should be clear, so let me ask you this without that stupid whataboutism. What Danglars is asking is actually very reasonable if you see it purely from a "violence" standpoint. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to acknowledge that violence is bad. Flatout. It doesn't matter which side does it. Like it or not (and i don't, i personally find the german system of flatout banning such rallies better), they do have the right to have these rallies. You might (actually: should) disagree with it, but as long as they keep it "peaceful", tough shit. There is no "but the left does it for the right reasons". That's the same fucking retarded justification trump used in his "we need to go after the families" bullshit. Violence is never for the right reasons. There's no "yeah boohoo he took the flag", there's simply: someone took that stupid flag, and shouldn't have done it. It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw. Do you condemn every act of violence committed by a conservative on the face of the planet, past, present and future? And all acts of racism by conservatives too, let's get that out of the way too.
In case it matters, yes, i do. I don't make that idiotic differentiation between "good violence" and "bad violence". Btw, democrats can be racist too. Lets get that out of the way really, really fast. Morally, ethically, legally, all of it applies a concept of a degree of wrongdoing. Taking a flag, bad. How bad? Depends on the person, but I would saying on the level of slap on the wrist and warning or minor fine. Or just apology and return. Why is that being compared to driving a truck into a crowd with the intent to kill or severely injure? Like, is there even any point to this conversation that isn't just a fake gotcha? So what you're saying is that there only was a single violent person in the charlottesville rally, if that's your measuring stick? All the fuzz about that one fucking puddingface that should get the chair for it? Right. Stop being intellectually dishonest.
I actually don't have a clue what you're talking about. Like, I'm honestly trying to decipher any context or intent from this post, and unable to find a sensible flow to it.
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On August 20 2017 09:01 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 08:57 Plansix wrote:
The key difference between people in this thread and Trump is the Nazis and KKK member have said they support Trump. They think this is their time. And he hasn't denounced them(the only where he took it back 24 hours later doesn't count), which only reinforces that belief. You have an extremely weird concept of key difference, i think.
No Nazis have said I support them recently. That can't be said for Trump.
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Apparently Frank Serpico himself showed up at the NYPD rally to show support for Kaepernick lol
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On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:
It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with my position (since we're mostly talking about me there rather than people like P6) but I don't see how I'm being hypocritical.
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On August 20 2017 09:15 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:
It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with my position (since we're mostly talking about me there rather than people like P6) but I don't see how I'm being hypocritical.
I actually wasn't talking about you, no idea why you would think that.
You can include yourself if you'd like? I don't want to exclude people who think they belong in that category. I haven't even seen a posting of yours on the last page?
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On August 20 2017 09:18 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 09:15 Nebuchad wrote:On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:
It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with my position (since we're mostly talking about me there rather than people like P6) but I don't see how I'm being hypocritical. I actually wasn't talking about you, no idea why you would think that. You can include yourself if you'd like? I don't want to exclude people who think they belong in that category. I haven't even seen a posting of yours on the last page?
P6's position is something along the lines of, violence is bad, but there isn't an equivalence of violence between both sides when one side is a murderous ideology and the other side is a violent group amidst a large range of protesters united to protest against a murderous ideology, so it's not really honest or interesting to invoke both (correct me if I'm wrong)
I'm closer to what you describe. And I don't think I'm a hypocrite for it.
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On August 20 2017 09:22 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 09:18 m4ini wrote:On August 20 2017 09:15 Nebuchad wrote:On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:
It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with my position (since we're mostly talking about me there rather than people like P6) but I don't see how I'm being hypocritical. I actually wasn't talking about you, no idea why you would think that. You can include yourself if you'd like? I don't want to exclude people who think they belong in that category. I haven't even seen a posting of yours on the last page? P6's position is something along the lines of, violence is bad, but there isn't an equivalence of violence between both sides when one side is a murderous ideology and the other side is a violent group amidst a large range of protesters united to protest against a murderous ideology, so it's not really honest or interesting to invoke both (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm closer to what you describe. And I don't think I'm a hypocrite for it.
If i understand you correctly, i do.
There's no difference between a violent Nazi and a violent counter protester. If both sides show up to a rally armed with baseball bats (like in charlottesville - and no, the terror attack is an entirely different matter comparable to the dallas cop shooting, not retards wielding baseball bats), both sides are equally violent. Just one side is even more retarded than the other (and still a Nazi after the fight).
That doesn't make any violence better than the other side. I've condemned and made fun of Nazis my entire life (i'm german after all, since you're swiss, you might know our laws etc in that regard). There's no excuse for Nazis/White Supremacists and their ideology. But if a left wing member goes violent, nobody actually cares.
Play this little game. What if this rally would've turned out to be another huge clash, who would get the blame? Be honest.
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On August 20 2017 09:34 m4ini wrote:
Play this little game. What if this rally would've turned out to be another huge clash, who would get the blame? Be honest.
Is the game 20 questions? Because your question currently has no answer. But personally I would blame Don Bluth, if that's okay with you.
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United States44396 Posts
xDaunt insists white supremacism clearly isn't a problem. Meanwhile African Americans still don't have equal access to the ballot box in America. I don't know how many times I need to say this but it's clearly not been enough. The problem isn't 100 guys marching in Boston, it's people like him who insist that the most important thing is that their privileged position is left intact.
I saw a post a day or two ago about General Lee, insisting that he personally didn't even support slavery, it's just that he was a general in the south and he was doing his duty and thought "wow, how are people not getting that that is exactly the problem, that this is what white supremacy generally looks like". As if it's unthinkable that we might ask someone to not fight to preserve the institution of slavery. If you're confronted with injustice and choose inaction then you don't get to subsequently deny a problem.
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On August 20 2017 09:34 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2017 09:22 Nebuchad wrote:On August 20 2017 09:18 m4ini wrote:On August 20 2017 09:15 Nebuchad wrote:On August 20 2017 08:43 m4ini wrote:
It is that easy to condemn Nazis without looking like a hypocritical asshole. Which many of you here do, btw.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with my position (since we're mostly talking about me there rather than people like P6) but I don't see how I'm being hypocritical. I actually wasn't talking about you, no idea why you would think that. You can include yourself if you'd like? I don't want to exclude people who think they belong in that category. I haven't even seen a posting of yours on the last page? P6's position is something along the lines of, violence is bad, but there isn't an equivalence of violence between both sides when one side is a murderous ideology and the other side is a violent group amidst a large range of protesters united to protest against a murderous ideology, so it's not really honest or interesting to invoke both (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm closer to what you describe. And I don't think I'm a hypocrite for it. If i understand you correctly, i do. There's no difference between a violent Nazi and a violent counter protester. If both sides show up to a rally armed with baseball bats (like in charlottesville - and no, the terror attack is an entirely different matter comparable to the dallas cop shooting, not retards wielding baseball bats), both sides are equally violent. Just one side is even more retarded than the other (and still a Nazi after the fight). That doesn't make any violence better than the other side. I've condemned and made fun of Nazis my entire life (i'm german after all, since you're swiss, you might know our laws etc in that regard). There's no excuse for Nazis/White Supremacists and their ideology. But if a left wing member goes violent, nobody actually cares. Play this little game. What if this rally would've turned out to be another huge clash, who would get the blame? Be honest.
I am certainly fine with laws against the free speech of nazis and I would favor that as an overall solution. Doubt we can get that passed in the US any time soon tho.
In the meantime, I'm having a lot of difficulty being morally annoyed by violence against nazis. I agree that I would be a hypocrite if there's no difference between a violent nazi and a violent counter protester, but I don't view that premise as correct. In order for a nazi not to be instigating in any way, I think I would need something like peaceful nazism to be a thing, and I don't think that it is.
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EPT
