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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:16 Nevuk wrote: All the members of antifa that post in the thread, obviously Also, was it really a member of antifia or someone who just went looking for a nazi to try to out? I mean even I looked at the faces to see if I knew someone and I am not in the antifia | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:15 KwarK wrote: What's your point? That false accusations are bad? Who is this point aimed at? How are you seriously this confused? It's a news story. Read it and comment. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:30 Danglars wrote: How are you seriously this confused? It's a news story. Read it and comment. my comment: some idiot did a sloppy job verifying identity. I hope they get sued for libel/slander/something equivalent. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45099 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:32 zlefin wrote: my comment: some idiot did a sloppy job verifying identity. I hope they get sued for libel/slander/something equivalent. Agreed. Doxxing is risky business, and it can ruin innocent people's lives if due diligence isn't performed. | ||
KwarK
United States43292 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:30 Danglars wrote: How are you seriously this confused? It's a news story. Read it and comment. Okay. Here is my comment. "false accusations are bad". Do we expect anyone in here to take the opposing side and argue that they are good? If not, what is your point? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:12 GreenHorizons wrote: lol, why am I not surprised to see you defending Nazi civil rights more vociferously than the black people who have theirs systemically violated every day? Lol, please. We all know that you'd go apeshit if some mayor tried to yank the permit for some black rights group that wanted to host a demonstration or otherwise tried to clamp down on the group's free speech rights. Your problem (and the general problem with the Left) is that you've lost perspective on what "equal protection under the law" means. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:30 Danglars wrote: How are you seriously this confused? It's a news story. Read it and comment. From someone who posts news stories without comment from time to time, asking why you posted it is a fair question. I read a lot of news and only a small fraction gets posted here. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:45 xDaunt wrote: Lol, please. We all know what you'd go apeshit if some mayor tried to yank the permit for some black rights group that wanted to host a demonstration or otherwise tried to clamp down on the group's free speech rights. Your problem (and the general problem with the Left) is that you've lost perspective on what "equal protection under the law" means. I do hope you realize there's a difference between a group advocating for equal rights and protections for black people, and a group advocating for the destruction of all non-white people. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:45 xDaunt wrote: Lol, please. We all know that you'd go apeshit if some mayor tried to yank the permit for some black rights group that wanted to host a demonstration or otherwise tried to clamp down on the group's free speech rights. Your problem (and the general problem with the Left) is that you've lost perspective on what "equal protection under the law" means. Can you post the story showing the mayor attempted to yank the permit? He said in an interview with NPR that he tried to have the venue moved because he had safety concerns given the nature of the protest. I've seen no evidence of him trying to stop the rally altogether. | ||
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KwarK
United States43292 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:45 xDaunt wrote: Lol, please. We all know that you'd go apeshit if some mayor tried to yank the permit for some black rights group that wanted to host a demonstration or otherwise tried to clamp down on the group's free speech rights. Your problem (and the general problem with the Left) is that you've lost perspective on what "equal protection under the law" means. Just as a reminder, black people in Alabama are still routinely denied the vote due to a law that, according to its author, was intended "to establish white supremacy in this state." When I mentioned this to Danglars his response was "well, we'd have to look into whether the 'Blacks can't vote law' disproportionately impacted black people before judging it". So no, we haven't lost perspective on what equal protection under the law means. It's just that one side never had it to begin with. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:50 Plansix wrote: Can you post the story showing the mayor attempted to yank the permit? He said in an interview with NPR that he tried to have the venue moved because he had safety concerns given the nature of the protest. I've seen no evidence of him trying to stop the rally altogether. I would think that y'all on the left would be able to show a better grasp of the concept of "pretext" than this. There's a reason why a federal court judge ruled in favor of the Nazis. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:39 KwarK wrote: Okay. Here is my comment. "false accusations are bad". Do we expect anyone in here to take the opposing side and argue that they are good? If not, what is your point? Seriously, man. It's apropos to a current event and not everything I post is meant to stir up antifa sympathizers into a rage. Don't be dense. | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:44 NewSunshine wrote: I think the idea is we're supposed to be focusing on how awful the Antifa are, rather than the Nazis that killed a woman in violent anti-protest. Whataboutism is an extended appeal to hypocrisy. "But you would be going crazy if ..." is an argument that someone has a double standard. By attacking Antifa, the poster is by extension attacking people who aren't condemning Antifa as much as they are condemning the Nazis. Now this is a ridiculous argument because it never makes the critical compare/contrast to the substance of what Antifa and the Nazis did. Until someone who is crying 'b-b-b-b-ut antifa' actually has evidence that Antifa is specifically as bad as the Nazis shown in the videos (check out that VICE link above), the argument is crap. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23493 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:45 xDaunt wrote: Lol, please. We all know that you'd go apeshit if some mayor tried to yank the permit for some black rights group that wanted to host a demonstration or otherwise tried to clamp down on the group's free speech rights. Your problem (and the general problem with the Left) is that you've lost perspective on what "equal protection under the law" means. That you equate the two says more than I think you intended. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:53 xDaunt wrote: I would think that y'all on the left would be able to show a better grasp of the concept of "pretext" than this. There's a reason why a federal court judge ruled in favor of the Nazis. So he did not try to yank the permit, as much as change the venue? I’ve engaged in the endless debates about voter ID laws and backed up my claims of pretext with some well researched evidence, to prove they were efforts to suppress the vote. If you are going to make the claim that was an effort to suppress them, show how you came to that conclusion. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 16 2017 04:55 GreenHorizons wrote: That you equate the two says more than I think you intended. So I guess that you think that ACLU is pro-Nazi, too? Give it a rest. A few weeks ago, people were asking me about how and why certain aspects of Western culture were under attack. Well, we are witnessing a good example right now. The rule of law is a fundamental aspect of Western culture, and people on the left like GH are all too eager to throw that concept overboard just to reach what they perceive to be a just result. As I have harped on repeatedly around here, process matters. How we get to a certain result often matters as much, if not more, than the result itself. | ||
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KwarK
United States43292 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:00 xDaunt wrote: So I guess that you think that ACLU is pro-Nazi, too? Give it a rest. A few weeks ago, people were asking me about how and why certain aspects of Western culture were under attack. Well, we are witnessing a good example right now. The rule of law is a fundamental aspect of Western culture, and people on the left like GH are all too eager to throw that concept overboard just to reach what they perceive to be a just result. As I have harped on repeatedly around here, process matters. How we get to a certain result often matters as much, if not more, than the result itself. You're missing his point. But either way, the rights of a large number of people are routinely trampled on without recourse by candidates you support doing policies you endorse. And yet the moment Nazis have their rights infringed, suddenly the big government has gone too far. Now I'm not saying that Nazis shouldn't receive their full rights under the law, it's just a little strange that you're only this outspoken when it's the white supremacists suffering. When it's other groups you're not even conspicuously absent, you're actively on the other side trying to repress them. It'd be nice if you were a little more "everyone deserves legal protections" and a little less "the priority right now is to make sure white supremacists get legal protection, those black folks can wait their turn". | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:00 xDaunt wrote: So I guess that you think that ACLU is pro-Nazi, too? Give it a rest. A few weeks ago, people were asking me about how and why certain aspects of Western culture were under attack. Well, we are witnessing a good example right now. The rule of law is a fundamental aspect of Western culture, and people on the left like GH are all too eager to throw that concept overboard just to reach what they perceive to be a just result. As I have harped on repeatedly around here, process matters. How we get to a certain result often matters as much, if not more, than the result itself. Western values are a constant debate over a society’s obligation to be tolerance and its reasonable right of self-preservation that supersedes that obligation. We can have that debate again and again without destroying western values. We can talk about the right to freely protest peacefully and if showing up with shields, clubs and body armor shows intent to instigate violence. | ||
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