EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 8417
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21655 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:45 Biff The Understudy wrote: Oh so rioting or destroying property in a political protest is an attack on western culture. From a french perspective, that's the most hilarious thing i read in this thread. what? Where do I say that? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:51 xDaunt wrote: The Left barks up the wrong tree whenever they try to go after Lee. He's just not cut out to be the villain. I have a pretty firm opinion on ex-generals who rise against their own government in defense of slavery. Especially when framed next to The Man Who Would Not Be King, the leader who had the foresight to abdicate power after two terms. Lee isn’t a villain, but he isn’t that impressive either. And I got a whole degree in the subject just to be sure. | ||
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:54 Wulfey_LA wrote: Just in case anyone is confused about whose side the President has chosen: https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/897559892164304896 Holy shit how is this getting so out of control so fast... xdaunt/danglars - do you guys still see this as a whole lot of hot air from MSM over optics or do you agree that Trumps responses/lack thereof are a cause for concern? so far I have only really seen you guys talk about the actual events of the protest. not so much about his response to the situation. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:28 Wulfey_LA wrote: LOL at everyone who spent the last two days spinning for Trump that he was sincere about criticizing the Nazis. 'b-b-b-b-but Alt-Left ... b-b-b-b-but Antifa' are the official lines of Trump himself. Hell, he even said that pulling down Lee statutes would lead to pulling down George Washington statutes. He even says the non-Nazis at Charllottesville were treated unfairly by the media! Everyone who said Trump wasn't spinning to protect the Nazis and Alt-Right are now officially wrong. Trump was trying to cover for them the whole time. Alt Left + Show Spoiler + Not all Nazis! + Show Spoiler + George washington + Show Spoiler + Long clip -- 4:10 + Show Spoiler + Get Trump to talk candidly about anything and you can be sure it's going to be a disaster. Holy shit. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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Jacenoob
299 Posts
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
https://www.c-span.org/video/?432633-1/president-trump-says-blame-sides-violence-charlottesville&start=390 | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 16 2017 05:57 Plansix wrote: I have a pretty firm opinion on ex-generals who rise against their own government in defense of slavery. Especially when framed next to The Man Who Would Not Be King, the leader who had the foresight to abdicate power after two terms. Lee isn’t a villain, but he isn’t that impressive either. And I got a whole degree in the subject just to be sure. Lee is really well-respected in the South, and it's hard to understand that unless you live there. Hell, my middle name was named after him, but it had nothing to do with racism, my father enjoyed his military tactics and read about them when he was in the reserves as a cavalry officer. People have a hard time separating out a few parts of people. The confederacy had exceptionally skilled military strategists. Some of them are respected to this day for tactical innovations, as the american civil war was one of the first "modern wars" due to the advent of accurate rifles. No one on either side thought it'd last longer than a few days, with minimal casualties. The first battle they tried to fight like Napoleon and line their troops up in a line and shoot at each other, leading to massive casualties in numbers never seen before. The confederacy adapted far faster to the idea of a guerilla war and were able to come far closer to victory than would be expected given their lesser resources, with only Antietam preventing them from gaining foreign allies. The poor quality of much of the early Union generals may have made it easier for Lee/Jackson to look good with tactics. Bedford Forrester's guerilla cavalry tactics are still read about - but it's always kept in mind he founded the KKK and went on to use those tactics in ever more horrific ways. In many ways Lee is just used as a stand-in for the Confederacy's martial skill due to him being the one in charge for a good portion of the war. Downside - they were fighting for a pretty horrific cause. They owned slaves (so did some Union generals and many politicians). Being good soldiers doesn't mean they were necessarily amazing people, and that's something easily forgotten. Also, until the advent of the internet State's Rights was basically accepted in the south as the reason for the Civil War, and still is in many places, I'm sure. So Lee is treated as someone who was defending his homeland from a hostile aggressor - just the way it was presented to me when I read history books in school as a youngling. Also, from what I understand, Lee has an inflated reputation (he let shit happen like 15,000 cavalry charge at fortifications for no reason at Gettysburg) and Grant a deflated one militarily (he's called the butcher despite having lower casualty rates than other union generals for example) because many southern professors went on to be influential at West Point and other military academies, but I haven't looked into it very much outside of a couple videos. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Nevuk: Lee has been lionized for decades by the south. He isn't evil or some nightmare human, but the level reverence he receives is part of the South's revisionist history. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 16 2017 06:23 Danglars wrote: https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/897554574663442432 well, that doesn't look good for trump. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 16 2017 06:23 Jacenoob wrote: Well it is 100% true that a lot of the violence was started by a section of the counter protestors. That is not the reports I am hearing. From all reports, it is hard to tell who started anything, but the alt-right group was hyper aggressive and screaming racial slurs as passing blacks. I do know which side murdered someone and hit 19 people with a car. | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + EDIT2: this may be actual fake news. This could be an error in the transcript. The audio cuts in and out here and the 'excuse me' was actually meanly directed at a reporter. Cross talk error is possible. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
If you fear the change of culture, it is fine to march with white nationalist, Nazis and the KKK. That is what Trump just argued. | ||
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riotjune
United States3392 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On August 16 2017 06:35 Plansix wrote: https://twitter.com/ryanbeckwith/status/897569494826008576 Goes to show that anyone can say they're not a racist. You have to look at their actions. | ||
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