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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7844

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
June 12 2017 22:36 GMT
#156861
On June 13 2017 07:22 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2017 07:21 Buckyman wrote:
What would y'all think of a rehabilitation-focused proposal that lets people on Social Security disability benefits work part-time at less than the normal minimum wage, without losing their disability benefits?

Social security disability takes on two forms, DIB and SSI, but both forms require that an individual certify that they are unable to work a job available to them in the economy. Further, having worked for the SSA as an intern, I can tell you that its system of disability adjudication is actually quite impressive and does an extremely good job of screening out bogus claimants. Thus, I'm not sure why SSDIB reform is a good route to go.


It's targeted at people that can't do a full job at full speed, but aren't completely disabled. In the spirit of equal pay for equal work, they might be able to do equal work in three times as much time, and thus be able to work for 1/3 minimum wage on to of DIB. They benefit (or they wouldn't work), the employer benefits (saving vs. minimum wage for a task that literally even a blind person can do), society benefits (getting productivity from someone who would otherwise be totally unproductive) and for some category of disabled person it might even rehabilitate them to the point where they are able to work a regular job.

Or, that's the theory. In practice, we won't know until we try.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18840 Posts
June 12 2017 22:42 GMT
#156862
People who can't do a job at full speed that are still adjudged not disabled don't get any benefits, so I'm not sure what problem you're addressing here. If you're suggesting that we add another layer of benefits onto the system in a way that encourages borderline disabled folks to find gainful though likely limited employment, I'm down with that because ODAR is a highly underrated system that could be used to further shore up a very dilapidated social welfare system.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14056 Posts
June 12 2017 22:50 GMT
#156863
On June 13 2017 07:22 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2017 07:19 Sermokala wrote:
A UBI with democracy scares me a bit personally. Its easy to see people pledging to increase it to get votes and then not having a way to pay for it later. It would probably be better for everyone if we had a UBI instead of social services (it would lower a lot of administrative and bureaucratic costs to achieve the same end) but the long term on it scares me more then a social welfare state would.

I actually think the exact opposite can be argued given the degree to which those services best provided by government fair poorly in free market environments; part of the problem with UBI is that it fails to address the problems inherent to treating education, healthcare, and housing as market goods. I accordingly think a hybrid UBI/social services system would likely be best, though of course, the political feasibility of it is up in the air.

Show nested quote +
On June 13 2017 07:21 Buckyman wrote:
What would y'all think of a rehabilitation-focused proposal that lets people on Social Security disability benefits work part-time at less than the normal minimum wage, without losing their disability benefits?

Social security disability takes on two forms, DIB and SSI, but both forms require that an individual certify that they are unable to work a job available to them in the economy. Further, having worked for the SSA as an intern, I can tell you that its system of disability adjudication is actually quite impressive and does an extremely good job of screening out bogus claimants. Thus, I'm not sure why SSDIB reform is a good route to go.

It would be a first step to quantify the basket of benefits that a family living under the poverty line or unemployed gets and how much the government spends to give them that and then to make argument about how much someone needs to live at that level and how best to give that to them.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
June 12 2017 23:30 GMT
#156864
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18840 Posts
June 12 2017 23:34 GMT
#156865
I wonder if he cooked that idea up on his own.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 12 2017 23:35 GMT
#156866
Just do it Donald. Don't let anyone boss you around. You're both President and a big boy!
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-12 23:38:13
June 12 2017 23:36 GMT
#156867
He'd do it, and I don't even think it would be a mistake on his part. His approval rating is at 34%, and it will not go any lower because base is cult like. If he fires Mueller, he gets off the hook, and just rolls along at 30% approval. He would be a 1 term president, with a permanent russia cloud, but it would not result in impeachment.
Question.?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18840 Posts
June 12 2017 23:37 GMT
#156868
Firing Mueller would not get Trump off the hook.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
June 12 2017 23:39 GMT
#156869
Would Mueller not be reinstated again almost immediately?
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-12 23:41:13
June 12 2017 23:40 GMT
#156870
By who? He can just fire the deputy AG and get someone loyal. Trump is not the type of individual who is going to go into a impeachment round lol, he's going to go out swinging, or in other words, firing.
Question.?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18840 Posts
June 12 2017 23:49 GMT
#156871
The law surrounding the dismissal powers of the president relative to a special prosecutor is unclear enough to render a "fire first, ask questions later" approach a pretty surefire way to inspire an immense legal controversy.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
June 12 2017 23:49 GMT
#156872
On June 13 2017 08:49 farvacola wrote:
The law surrounding the dismissal powers of the president relative to a special prosecutor is unclear enough to render a "fire first, ask questions later" approach a pretty surefire way to inspire an immense legal controversy.


In other words, no big deal to trump.
Question.?
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
June 12 2017 23:49 GMT
#156873
On June 13 2017 08:37 farvacola wrote:
Firing Mueller would not get Trump off the hook.

Sure but firing the guy investigating you totally gives the old ego a boost.

What's public outrage in the face of Trump anyways?

/s
Porouscloud - NA LoL
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 12 2017 23:51 GMT
#156874
congress could appoint him as a special prosecutor (unless they removed that law entirely); and they might feel pressured enough to do so. and at any rate; firing mueller would increase the heat to the point where more republicans would be compelled to support pursueing the investigation very seriously.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
June 12 2017 23:51 GMT
#156875
I assume this would require republican support
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35164 Posts
June 12 2017 23:51 GMT
#156876
Firing Mueller would just make the speedrun tool assisted. Pathetic. SAD.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18840 Posts
June 12 2017 23:51 GMT
#156877
On June 13 2017 08:49 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2017 08:49 farvacola wrote:
The law surrounding the dismissal powers of the president relative to a special prosecutor is unclear enough to render a "fire first, ask questions later" approach a pretty surefire way to inspire an immense legal controversy.


In other words, no big deal to trump.

Nope, these are waters deeper than those previously tread by Trump, particularly because of pre-existing DoJ special prosecutor dismissal regulations and the lack of an undergirding statute.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-12 23:54:43
June 12 2017 23:54 GMT
#156878
On June 13 2017 08:51 Gahlo wrote:
Firing Mueller would just make the speedrun tool assisted. Pathetic. SAD.


for a speedrun you would be foolish to not take advantage of a tried and true route
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
June 12 2017 23:54 GMT
#156879
On June 13 2017 08:51 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2017 08:49 biology]major wrote:
On June 13 2017 08:49 farvacola wrote:
The law surrounding the dismissal powers of the president relative to a special prosecutor is unclear enough to render a "fire first, ask questions later" approach a pretty surefire way to inspire an immense legal controversy.


In other words, no big deal to trump.

Nope, these are waters deeper than those previously tread by Trump, particularly because of pre-existing DoJ special prosecutor dismissal regulations and the lack of an undergirding statute.


Ok well I'm glad these restrictions are in place then, I was losing faith in the system and realized Trump could just fire anyone in the executive branch who got in his way. Good to know
Question.?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 12 2017 23:55 GMT
#156880
On June 13 2017 07:19 Sermokala wrote:
A UBI with democracy scares me a bit personally. Its easy to see people pledging to increase it to get votes and then not having a way to pay for it later. It would probably be better for everyone if we had a UBI instead of social services (it would lower a lot of administrative and bureaucratic costs to achieve the same end) but the long term on it scares me more then a social welfare state would.

the same problems already exist with social security; and many other gov't benefits.
It'd be helpful if we made changes to the system to ensure actuarially sound budgetting for these things. not sure of the optimal way to do that; but something is needed.
either way; paying for stuff with debt then having too much debt is going to be an issue.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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