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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 09 2014 16:37 GMT
#15401
On January 09 2014 18:34 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2014 16:57 nunez wrote:
On January 09 2014 14:06 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On January 09 2014 13:45 sam!zdat wrote:
is there an option in that game for fascist technocracy and ecological catastrophe?

Fuck yeah! Try Cybernetic Conciousness (edit: expansion faction) with the following social engineering choices:

Politics: Police State
Economy: Free Market
Values: Knowledge
Future Society: Cybernetic

Edit 2: Free Market is BRUTAL in AC... Planet gets pissed and sends mind worms to kill you XD


a free market where every individual is regulated is the same as a regulated market. freudian slip!


Let alone that "Values: Knowledge" just doesn't fit into the "Police State" + "Free Market" which run into an entirely diffrent direction?

They're cyborgs on an alien planet ruled by a sentient AI. They see things a bit differently
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-09 17:27:02
January 09 2014 16:53 GMT
#15402
On January 10 2014 01:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2014 16:56 IgnE wrote:
On January 09 2014 16:35 Danglars wrote:
On January 09 2014 14:03 IgnE wrote:
On January 09 2014 13:08 Danglars wrote:
On January 09 2014 12:53 IgnE wrote:
On January 09 2014 09:06 Danglars wrote:
On January 09 2014 07:51 farvacola wrote:
It surprises me not at all that Danglars is unable to see the problem in how income is so heavily affected by work over the already daily allotment. That we are one of the worlds most overworked nations is nothing to be proud of.
Yes, we most certainly must ban people from working longer hours and very specific spans because it is discriminatory towards women. We most certainly should implement a mandatory daily quota and ban every ounce of pay beyond it--make it illegal. Only then can we say we are in a post-glass-ceiling world.

I'm sure, as you are clearly interested in reducing the gender pay gap, that you read the paper with alarm. My local feminists had not previously informed me either that the "incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours" was a critical influence in depressing women's wages the gender wage gap. The article does not go far enough in exploring government solutions towards equality in this area. This oversight may soon put Claudia Goldin in the ranks of the Paglia's.


In Danglar's world, more work is always good, and those willing to work the most should be reward the most. If you are a woman who wants to raise a family and simply can't work as much as men, so be it. What Danglars fails to realize is that the only reason men can do so much productive work is that women are the ones doing all the reproductive work. Reproductive work is more than the work of simply reproducing the species, it involves taking care of the home, cooking, cleaning, providing emotional support, listening, cherishing, raising kids, or otherwise the "work" of living. Business owners and managers reflect the societal values that elevate productive work while denigrating reproductive work, as reproductive work does not get any financial compensation. Danglars makes this about "feminism" and women rather than seeing the more fundamental points that 1) reproductive work is the hidden work that allows society function despite not being valued, so paying a certain class of people to 60 or 80 hours a week of productive work relies upon an unpaid segment of the population that takes care of those ambitious workers by doing their reproductive labor for them, and 2) women, socially, are shunted into this uncompensated labor role more than men.

You want to know why birth rates are declining in modern, westernized countries? You want to know why "family values," that the right so loves to talk about in America are deteriorating? The answer is not birth control and rap music, in that order. You are overvaluing productive labor at the expense of reproductive labor. You are forcing people to choose between more work and building families and rich personal lives. But for you it's okay because it makes the owner richer. Profits continue to soar for the capitalist class, but at least in Danglar's world all is ok, because those who work more get paid more.
The first thing that comes to mind is, "So what are you going to do about it, IgnE?" This great biological conspiracy to keep the gender wage gap afloat, what are you going to do about it? Women will find it hard to breastfeed and earn 6 figures besides. The jobs involved in reproduction (I'm looking past all the conflation between reproductive work and sensible division of labor) doesn't cause the emotional support to suddenly cause dollars to rain down from heaven.

I mean, let me offer you a tisand (sue at this great biological injustice, but I can hardly find it relevant. I'm talking about Jonny's article--individuals rewarded at greater rates than the simple extra hours they put in. Incentivize workers that can do it to do it, and stay with the company, and we have a great contributor to the gap. Now, you're scurrying for the rabbit hole to bring up declining birth rates, underappreciated housework, and all these evil evils that are evil because ... working the overtime is causing compensation several times longer? Point your finger at God (sorry, evolutionary impartiality) for making women to bear children. Don't project the other factors (besides willingness to work long hours/odd hours) as some failure of wage labor; they aren't.


I think you are missing the point. The biology of the situation is peripheral to the failure of wage labor. I assumed you would consider declining birth rates and the disintegration of the family bad things. Maybe you don't. You are free to clarify, but your histrionic responses to what you interpret as feminism on my side are off the mark as usual.
You were the one that lectured on the unpaid practices of society. If you had a point to mentioning all the things mothers, housewives, and women who share some housework, you failed to make it. I don't suggest that wage labor is the end-all be-all of society. I simultaneously fail to see any relevancy whatsoever to the article at hand. You typed all that out, so I assume you saw some kind of relevance to disproportional wage compensation. Sharing it with all of us is what you failed to do.

Joe Employee earns proportionally more for the extra 2 hrs he works a day, and now I must worry about declining birth rates and families? Oh my. These women are really getting back at the men for the gender pay gap!

On January 09 2014 14:06 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On January 09 2014 13:45 sam!zdat wrote:
is there an option in that game for fascist technocracy and ecological catastrophe?

Fuck yeah! Try Cybernetic Conciousness (edit: expansion faction) with the following social engineering choices:

Politics: Police State
Economy: Free Market
Values: Knowledge
Future Society: Cybernetic

Edit 2: Free Market is BRUTAL in AC... Planet gets pissed and sends mind worms to kill you XD
Sometimes, I think mainstream environmentalism sees the world in the same way. Mother Gaia is displeased at free markets, mining, and industrial production so sends mind worms climate change as karmic reprisals.

I gotta assume the Morgan Industries faction is a nod to J.P. Morgan, morganization, etc. Those quotes, man! Both poking fun at its critics and giving a nod to the economical underpinnings of today's society.


Men can perform most forms of reproductive labor just as well as women. It's about division of labor and the oppression of wage labor. It just so happens that most cultures hand most of the reproductive labor to women. The point is that when you incentivize productive labor by encouraging overtime pay to those who are willing to sacrifice their lives to the gristmill of wage slavery, you are paying a premium for their labor, by forcing their reproductive labor to performed by someone else or ignored completely to the detriment of the laborer. Then you end up with a society in which the population growth is negative, old people are put in nursing homes that are paid for by their overtime-working children who would rather trade wages than time to take care of them, children are left to their own devices or raised by apathetic wage slave nannies, and families disintegrate because no one has learned to value reproductive labor activities that help knit the family together.

If you are going to stick within the grossly unjust capitalist paradigm, how about instead of overtime based on a grossly stupid hourly schedule we at least hire enough people and pay them all a fair enough wage based on their work product. Then maybe we can try to align our economic values with some of our most cherished cultural values.

Jonny also just pointed to the fact that Joe Employee earns a more than proportional amount of money for the extra 2-6 hours he works every day.

Depends what Joe Employee does. Some are linear, some non-linear and work tends to be moving in the direction of more becoming linear as technology and standardization become more prevalent.


yes, clearly:
earn(work(...),a*x+y)=a*earn(work(...),x)+earn(work(...),y) hold sometimes, but sometimes not.
it really depends on how far in you can zoom your browser.
+ Show Spoiler [work moving towards linearity] +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 09 2014 20:18 GMT
#15403
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of New Jersey confirmed to TPM on Thursday that it was evaluating whether federal laws were broken in the George Washington Bridge lane closing scandal.

"The Port Authority Office of Inspector General has referred the matter to us, and our office is reviewing it to determine whether a federal law was implicated,” U.S. Attorney's Office spokesperson Rebekah Carmichael said in an emailed statement.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-09 20:39:20
January 09 2014 20:37 GMT
#15404
I wonder what their gonna charge them with.
probably some crazy amalgamation of a bunch of different crimes.
Im sure the family of the deceased women is looking for whose responsible.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
January 09 2014 20:44 GMT
#15405
http://nj1015.com/christie-breaks-silence-at-11am-live-video/

Gov. Chris Christie, saying he was “embarrassed and humiliated” by the first major political scandal of his career, apologized to the public Thursday and fired his deputy chief of staff, Bridget Anne Kelly, “because she lied” about the September closings of traffic lanes on the George Washington Bridge.

Emails from Kelly, leaked Wednesday, showed she participated in the closings, as political retaliation against the mayor of Fort Lee.

“I am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here,” Christie said, repeating that he had no personal knowledge of his aide’s actions until Wednesday morning, when he read the first accounts of Kelly’s emails in The Record. “I was blindsided yesterday morning,” Christie said, adding that he immediately realized “action was necessary.”

The governor said his earlier responses to the affair, which included joking about personally placing traffic cones at the bridge, would never have been made if he had not been assured by Kelly and other members of his staff that his office had had no involvement in the closings.

“What I was told is that it (the lane closing) was a traffic study,” the governor said.

Nonetheless, Christie said, “I am responsible for what happened. I am sad to report to the people of New Jersey that we fell short. . . of the expectations that we’ve created over the last four years for the type of excellence in government that they should expect from this office.”

The governor also said he would go to Fort Lee later Thursday to apologize to Mayor Mark Sokolich and “the people of Fort Lee.”

Meanwhile, sources also said that the U.S. Attorney for New Jersey, Paul J. Fishman, will announce an inquiry into the lane closings Thursday. And the Assembly Transportation Committee was expected to hear from another key figure in the controversy, David Wildstein, Thursday afternoon. Wildstein was the Port Authority official who directly ordered the lane closings and was forced to resign as a consequence in December. Wildstein’s bid to quash a subpoena from the committee was rejected by a state judge Thursday morning. He later appeared at the hearing and invoked his Fifth Amendment rights in declining to answer any questions.

The press conference, held in the Governor’s Outer Office at the State House in Trenton, was packed with New Jersey media, as well as national media reporters drawn by Christie’s status as a frontrunner for the 2016 GOP presidential nomination.

They saw and heard an uncharacteristically contrite Chris Christie, who told them he was “heartbroken” by the behavior of Kelly and his former campaign manager, Bill Stepien. Stepien, who was on his way to becoming chairman of the Republican State Committee, is also implicated by the “Bridgegate” emails.

Christie said he phoned Stepien Wednesday night and instructed him to withdraw his candidacy for the party position and disassociate himself from Christie’s new national role as head of the Republican Governors Association. The governor said he was “disturbed” by Stepien emails displaying “callous indifference” to those affected by the serious traffic disruptions caused by the lane closings.

Defending his reputation for “honesty and directness and blunt talk,” Christie initially deflected questions about whether the incident reinforced an image of him as a “bully.” But he then seemed to address the issue more reflectively.

“It makes me think about me,” Christie said. “What did I do wrong to make these folks think it was okay to lie to me. “I’ve been doing a lot of soul-searching. I’m sick over this.”

The governor also apologized repeatedly during the press conference, hitting a note critics said was missing from the initial statement his office released Wednesday, after stories about the emails first broke.


Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 09 2014 20:47 GMT
#15406
So it is now a, possible, traffic study? Kind of odd seeing how the press debunked that explanation a couple of weeks ago. That and his joking sarcasm about it in December so he can't deny he didn't know about it.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
January 09 2014 20:51 GMT
#15407
On January 10 2014 05:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So it is now a, possible, traffic study? Kind of odd seeing how the press debunked that explanation a couple of weeks ago. That and his joking sarcasm about it in December so he can't deny he didn't know about it.

That's what he's claiming:
The governor said his earlier responses to the affair, which included joking about personally placing traffic cones at the bridge, would never have been made if he had not been assured by Kelly and other members of his staff that his office had had no involvement in the closings.

It's arguable, of course, but I can see that happening. I've fucked up mafia games harder than that before.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-09 20:56:41
January 09 2014 20:56 GMT
#15408
Which begs another question. Where did they get the idea of that this would be an acceptable form of retribution and who set the tone that such acts were the norm, who sets the example?
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 09 2014 21:00 GMT
#15409
WASHINGTON -- Certain medications that are intended to prevent breast cancer will be fully covered under Obamacare, in new guidance set to be issued by the Department of Health and Human Services Thursday morning.

Women at increased risk of breast cancer can receive so-called chemoprevention drugs, including tamoxifen and raloxifene, without a co-pay or other out-of-pocket expense.

Under Obamacare, most health insurance companies and employer plans must offer certain preventive services at no cost to patients.

The American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network praised the announcement in a statement Thursday.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
January 09 2014 22:18 GMT
#15410
So Christie's flunkies are falling on their swords. This pleases me considering my own mother was stuck in one of those traffic jams in September. If the NYPost was a left leaning paper the headline would be "Christie Aid kills Grandma".

He seems to be saying all the right things though, and other people are taking the bulk of the heat for it. Christie 2016 Jeb Bush 2016!!! + Show Spoiler +
lol jk voting for Hillary
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
January 09 2014 23:00 GMT
#15411
The critical question is the following:

What did David Wildstein say to Christie when David Wildstein resigned last year?

For Christie to be telling the truth that he was clueless, David Wildstein would have needed to resign in silence, and then insist on not telling Christie anything to protect Christie. That makes no sense. And David Wildstein taking the 5th strongly suggests that whatever he said when he resigned must be kept under wraps.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 10 2014 00:25 GMT
#15412
Where is the traffic study? What would allow Christie's Deputy Chief of Staff to believe that an abuse of power was the order of the day? Those in the Port Authority took orders immediately to shut lanes down and not think the orders were NOT from Chris Christie? They knew exactly what "Time for some Traffic trouble" meant.

Some of it appeared innocuous, perhaps a slip-of-the-tongue during the most tense press conference of Christie's political career. At one point, Christie said he'd endured two sleepless nights over the revelations, even though the documents causing him such a headache had only been released a little more than 24 hours earlier. Given the chance to clarify, Christie acknowledged that it had been a slip.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
scFoX
Profile Joined September 2011
France454 Posts
January 10 2014 00:50 GMT
#15413
Heh. It kind of reminds me of Al Capone, i.e. the "will no one rid me of this turbulent priest" method. You suggest something in an offhand way, your lackeys do the dirty work for you and you can maintain plausible deniability.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
January 10 2014 01:19 GMT
#15414
back in the old days, we called that "working toward the chairman"
shikata ga nai
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 10 2014 01:24 GMT
#15415
President Barack Obama on Thursday announced the first of five "Promise Zones," part of a White House initiative to combat income inequality and spur economic mobility in areas of the country that have been slow to feel the effects of the economic recovery.

Five communities — San Antonio, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, southeastern Kentucky and the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma — will receive comprehensive assistance from multiple federal agencies with the goals of creating jobs, expanding educational opportunities, increasing access to affordable housing and improving public safety.

In announcing the first five zones, Obama referenced President Lyndon B. Johnson’s announcement of the War on Poverty 50 years ago, in which he spoke of blighted communities “on the outskirts of hope” where residents had scant opportunities to improve their lots.

Obama — who last month called income inequality “the defining challenge of our time” — acknowledged that wrenching changes in the economy had created similar conditions today, but said the administration was willing to consider any and all policy proposals to address those problems.

“Everyone in this country who works hard should have a fair shot of success,” he said. “A child’s course should not be determined by the ZIP code she’s born in but by the strength of her work ethic and the scope of her dreams."

Under the Promise Zone initiative, each city or region has a specialized plan to address issues specific to its population, with the federal government serving as a partner, expediting access to existing resources, extending grants and offering tax incentives to businesses that hire within the zone.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
January 10 2014 02:40 GMT
#15416
Doesn't sound cheap, hope it works and is worthwhile.
I hear that there's parts of the country, especially in certain cities, where it's not all that safe.
No reason for any place in america to be unsafe.
I say we move some of the military budget to law enforcement to make those areas safe.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 10 2014 02:47 GMT
#15417
How Silicon Valley Became The Man

Silicon Valley has been taking a lot of heat lately for its power and elitism. That’s only natural for a region that has rapidly gained enormous economic and cultural clout. But it seems especially ironic that this is happening in the San Francisco Bay area, that one-time headquarters of flower power where entrepreneurs have long fashioned themselves as rebels and iconoclasts battling robotic rivals (Microsoft, IBM) and liberating workers from the hierarchical ways of corporate life. ...

Link
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-10 04:16:44
January 10 2014 04:14 GMT
#15418
[image loading]

NJ101.5's poll on Christie's speech, with about 320 voters so far (jumped from 4.00 to 4.31 when I voted "Other" as a test). Probably a good representation of the local opinion if maybe a slight bias towards the right for the station itself.

Honestly though, I could see similar results for something like the Benghazi denial made by the Republican camp against Clinton. I don't think this'll do much for Christie's public image as of 2016.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
January 10 2014 05:32 GMT
#15419
On January 10 2014 11:40 zlefin wrote:
Doesn't sound cheap, hope it works and is worthwhile.
I hear that there's parts of the country, especially in certain cities, where it's not all that safe.
No reason for any place in america to be unsafe.
I say we move some of the military budget to law enforcement to make those areas safe.


The issue is a lot more complex than just not having enough law enforcement. Quite frequently, law enforcement/the justice system is part of the problem.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8544 Posts
January 10 2014 06:11 GMT
#15420
On January 09 2014 11:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2014 11:49 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 09 2014 11:39 Jormundr wrote:
On January 09 2014 11:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On January 09 2014 10:15 Jormundr wrote:
On January 09 2014 09:06 Danglars wrote:
On January 09 2014 07:51 farvacola wrote:
It surprises me not at all that Danglars is unable to see the problem in how income is so heavily affected by work over the already daily allotment. That we are one of the worlds most overworked nations is nothing to be proud of.
Yes, we most certainly must ban people from working longer hours and very specific spans because it is discriminatory towards women. We most certainly should implement a mandatory daily quota and ban every ounce of pay beyond it--make it illegal. Only then can we say we are in a post-glass-ceiling world.

I'm sure, as you are clearly interested in reducing the gender pay gap, that you read the paper with alarm. My local feminists had not previously informed me either that the "incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours" was a critical influence in depressing women's wages the gender wage gap. The article does not go far enough in exploring government solutions towards equality in this area. This oversight may soon put Claudia Goldin in the ranks of the Paglia's.

That or men are more likely to accept getting fucked into overwork that isn't covered by their salary. EITHER OR LOL. This may not exist in your 'free market' but unlogged overtime for both wage and especially salary workers exists.

If you're salary exempt, overtime should be factored into your general salary.

We're going to pay you 40,000 a year, you have to work 40 hours a week. Except you have to work 50-60 hours a week on average or you're fired.
BAM
You're wrong.

And thats what labor protection laws are for. To stop your Employer from firing you over something like that. But since the cooperations run your government thats not happening.

This is the US megathread, not the eurocrisis one...


The hybris, I love it

Ad the Chris Christie story. My twitter feed exploded and there were some hilarious comments on the whole "traffic jam-Gate". "I am not a bully" is the twenty-first century's "I am not a crook."(Caitlin Kelly) for example
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