|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 27 2017 01:01 PhoenixVoid wrote:
I think it's a shame to turn a great cultural sharing tool like food into another identity politics battleground. The thing is, I am pretty sure the vast majority of those cultures being "hijacked" really don't care, if not support the idea of people outside their cultural circle engaging and consuming their cuisine.
Ask a Korean guy myself, when I see non-Koreans eating my country's food, I applaud their curiosity in my culture and think it's great when they try out new recipes and talk about how great kimchi is. It's a misguided attempt at being respectful, and I doubt many of the people they claim they are defending really want this.
I think you *can* culturally appropriate food, by whitewashing/obscuring it's origin or treating something as a new food innovation when it's really just something from another culture... but yeah someone getting recipes and cooking them seems perfectly normal and a healthy part of creating new culture.
|
I will say that most progressive groups I am friends with are pretty mixed the topic. Many of them think it is a way for mostly white super progressives to perform the role of the good progressive standing up for minorities. Other think it is in poor taste to make any claim of appropriation on behalf of a culture they are not part of. But most of our friends are older left leaning voters with kids and mortgages, so I might be out of the loop.
On May 27 2017 01:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Well at that point i think the best is to speak about utter stupidity. Too bad those people probably damage a good cause in the process..
I would say their lasting impact is pretty low, but it makes for great outrage fodder on the internet.
|
On May 27 2017 01:08 Plansix wrote:
I would say their lasting impact is pretty low, but it makes for great outrage fodder on the internet.
I dunno, I'd say the impact is pretty lasting for these business owners. That burrito stand is likely the first of many to fall. Portland takes SJW'ing very seriously.
|
On May 27 2017 01:08 Plansix wrote:
I will say that most progressive groups I am friends with are pretty mixed the topic. Many of them think it is a way for mostly white super progressives to perform the role of the good progressive standing up for minorities. Other think it is in poor taste to make any claim of appropriation on behalf of a culture they are not part of. But most of our friends are older left leaning voters with kids and mortgages, so I might be out of the loop.
Yeah, from the non-concerned it seems mostly like a holier-than-thou attitude.
|
On May 27 2017 01:10 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 01:08 Plansix wrote:
I will say that most progressive groups I am friends with are pretty mixed the topic. Many of them think it is a way for mostly white super progressives to perform the role of the good progressive standing up for minorities. Other think it is in poor taste to make any claim of appropriation on behalf of a culture they are not part of. But most of our friends are older left leaning voters with kids and mortgages, so I might be out of the loop. Yeah, from the non-concerned it seems mostly like a holier-than-thou attitude.
I can't tell if you saying this shaming campaign is ethical or not.
|
On May 27 2017 01:10 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 01:08 Plansix wrote:
I would say their lasting impact is pretty low, but it makes for great outrage fodder on the internet. I dunno, I'd say the impact is pretty lasting for these business owners. That burrito stand is likely the first of many to fall. Portland takes SJW'ing very seriously.
They made an entire comedy show about how silly that town is. And when people visits, the thing I keep hearing is variations on "This is way to much like the show for my liking".
Your town is a cautionary tale in real time.
|
What show would they be talking about?
|
|
|
I'm visiting Portland for a week next Wednesday. If anybody is in Portland that is down to hang out for a couple of drinks/food, let me know! We're visiting that Feminist Book Store... Apparently Portlandia got kicked out from filming there because they felt misrepresented lmao
|
Norway28743 Posts
On May 27 2017 00:46 Mohdoo wrote:I thought I'd share a local cultural issue my area is struggling with right now. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fiLUFcu.png) There's an effort right now in Portland to shame any businesses that are operated by a person belonging to a culture/race other than the type of food they are selling. They essentially believe that when a white person opens a Mexican restaurant, they are hijacking Mexican culture and exploiting it in a way that perpetuates subjugation of minorities. 2 women who opened a food cart were shamed into closing because they had talked about how they stole the recipes from people they met in mexico. Now, this is beyond ridiculous to me. This is like some sort of bizarre, exaggerated version of affirmative action. This is like putting a cap on the number of white people admitted into a university, rather than giving minorities an extra chance at admittance. Link: https://pdx.eater.com/2017/5/22/15677760/portland-kooks-burrito-cultural-appropriationI've had some pretty extensive discussions with people on Facebook, and it really seems to mostly boil down to the fact that minorities have had a long history of exploitation and we need to let them have their own culture. We need to allow them to utilize their history and recipes and whatnot instead of going into the same business. Since Mexicans already struggle to get business loans, a white person deciding to open a Mexican restaurant makes the existing difficulty of being a Mexican business owner even worse. However, people from Mexico historically being treated worse than people from France doesn’t mean it is suddenly worse to open a Mexican restaurant than a French restaurant. If I lived in south America for a few years, moved back here, and started a restaurant based on the food I learned about, that is clearly ethical. And I wouldn’t say someone should have to spend some years in a country to earn the right to cook meals from that culture. The fact that minorities have a harder time securing business loans does not change the underlying ethics of cultural exchange. Especially for something as dynamic and fluid as recipes. I am very sad to see such misguided angst. At the end of the day, this is an extremely ineffective, hostile, polarizing method of dealing with racial inequality. This kind of behavior makes me increasingly skeptical of this wing of my party. This isn't even effective. It is just an expression of anger.
Completely fucked up imo, just another version of 'the races should not intermingle'. I pretty much feel the opposite way, a large part of why I am so fond of multiculturalism /melting pots/salad bowls is that exposure to other cultures, be it through music or food or behavioral traits allows me to identify parts that enrich my own, personal culture.
I'm actually really interested in seeing some studies of 'how many different types of food do you eat per month / how many different genres of music do you listen to per month' compared to attitudes towards immigration. Because I'm suspecting that there's a pretty strong correlation between diversity in food and music consumption and positive attitude towards immigration. 
|
On May 27 2017 01:26 brian wrote:
portlandia
Never heard of it. I was just reading about "cultural approriation" on the internet. I kind of understand the concept, but not really. I guess it's one of those American cultural things.
|
On May 27 2017 01:10 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 01:08 Plansix wrote:
I will say that most progressive groups I am friends with are pretty mixed the topic. Many of them think it is a way for mostly white super progressives to perform the role of the good progressive standing up for minorities. Other think it is in poor taste to make any claim of appropriation on behalf of a culture they are not part of. But most of our friends are older left leaning voters with kids and mortgages, so I might be out of the loop. Yeah, from the non-concerned it seems mostly like a holier-than-thou attitude.
In a way, it's kind of like they're appropriating what they think that culture's outrage is/should be...
|
|
|
On May 27 2017 01:31 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 00:46 Mohdoo wrote:I thought I'd share a local cultural issue my area is struggling with right now. There's an effort right now in Portland to shame any businesses that are operated by a person belonging to a culture/race other than the type of food they are selling. They essentially believe that when a white person opens a Mexican restaurant, they are hijacking Mexican culture and exploiting it in a way that perpetuates subjugation of minorities. 2 women who opened a food cart were shamed into closing because they had talked about how they stole the recipes from people they met in mexico. Now, this is beyond ridiculous to me. This is like some sort of bizarre, exaggerated version of affirmative action. This is like putting a cap on the number of white people admitted into a university, rather than giving minorities an extra chance at admittance. Link: https://pdx.eater.com/2017/5/22/15677760/portland-kooks-burrito-cultural-appropriationI've had some pretty extensive discussions with people on Facebook, and it really seems to mostly boil down to the fact that minorities have had a long history of exploitation and we need to let them have their own culture. We need to allow them to utilize their history and recipes and whatnot instead of going into the same business. Since Mexicans already struggle to get business loans, a white person deciding to open a Mexican restaurant makes the existing difficulty of being a Mexican business owner even worse. However, people from Mexico historically being treated worse than people from France doesn’t mean it is suddenly worse to open a Mexican restaurant than a French restaurant. If I lived in south America for a few years, moved back here, and started a restaurant based on the food I learned about, that is clearly ethical. And I wouldn’t say someone should have to spend some years in a country to earn the right to cook meals from that culture. The fact that minorities have a harder time securing business loans does not change the underlying ethics of cultural exchange. Especially for something as dynamic and fluid as recipes. I am very sad to see such misguided angst. At the end of the day, this is an extremely ineffective, hostile, polarizing method of dealing with racial inequality. This kind of behavior makes me increasingly skeptical of this wing of my party. This isn't even effective. It is just an expression of anger. Completely fucked up imo, just another version of 'the races should not intermingle'. I pretty much feel the opposite way, a large part of why I am so fond of multiculturalism /melting pots/salad bowls is that exposure to other cultures, be it through music or food or behavioral traits allows me to identify parts that enrich my own, personal culture. I'm actually really interested in seeing some studies of 'how many different types of food do you eat per month / how many different genres of music do you listen to per month' compared to attitudes towards immigration. Because I'm suspecting that there's a pretty strong correlation between diversity in food and music consumption and positive attitude towards immigration.
Food has been one of the great cultural exchanges throughout history. The entire pasta industry was created by Italians marketing their food the US. Many of the Italian America recipes in the US were created by Italians trying to create dishes that could be made with ingredients that were available to the average american house hold at the time.
|
On May 27 2017 01:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Never heard of it. I was just reading about "cultural approriation" on the internet. I kind of understand the concept, but not really. I guess it's one of those American cultural things.
It is a show made American liberals mocking the worst tendencies of American liberals in Portland Oregon. It is pretty good, but also way to real for comfort.
|
Sounds interesting. The most hipsters get up to in London is sipping coffees and giving money to charity.
|
On May 27 2017 01:41 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Sounds interesting. The most hipsters get up to in London is sipping coffees and giving money to charity.
Coffee makes many appearances in Portlandia.
|
Why would they announce this? What if they miss?
|
On May 27 2017 01:46 On_Slaught wrote:Why would they announce this? What if they miss?
Because they need to announce to other nations that they will be shooting at something that appears on radar to be a short range ICBM.
|
United States43591 Posts
Cultural appreciation is very different from cultural appropriation. One is a dominant culture erasing the identity of another, the other is recognizing the cool shit other cultures come up with. Cultural appropriation destroys the memory of a culture, cultural appreciation incorporates it and makes it immortal as a part of the dominant culture.
White people trying to share awesome foreign food with other white people is appreciation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
