In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
NEW YORK — Under siege from a growing brigade of Republican officials demanding Donald Trump step down, the candidate's campaign team and dwindling number of allies struggled to respond on Sunday, just hours before a crucial second debate with Hillary Clinton.
At Trump Tower in Manhattan, where the candidate holed up after the 2005 Access Hollywood tape surfaced, stalwart Trump backers including son Eric Trump and campaign CEO Steve Bannon projected a sunny image to reporters as they left the building, saying things were on track for the debate.
But as dozens of top Republicans continue to publicly abandon Trump, sources tell NBC News his campaign and party apparatus are going through an intense bout of soul searching, with no unified message on how to proceed. The sources were granted anonymity in order to speak candidly.
One Trump aide described the environment as a "hurricane" and that the campaign was still determining the extent of the damage.
Trump himself on Sunday morning lashed out at the Republicans defecting en masse from his campaign and warned of political retribution.
"So many self-righteous hypocrites," Trump tweeted. "Watch their poll numbers — and elections — go down!"
Talking points distributed to supporters and shared with NBC News emphasized that Trump "has been counted out many times in this election" and that his Republican critics "are more concerned with their political future than the future of their country."
But Trump has largely been left alone to carry that banner. Campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, normally Trump's go-to spokeswoman and his most prominent female advocate, dropped out of planned appearances on Sunday shows. So did RNC Chairman Reince Priebus, who issued a terse statement on Friday condemning Trump's 2005 comments immediately after they surfaced.
Campaign sources say Priebus met with Trump for about 90 minutes on Saturday and was "very frank" about the significant fallout from the story. The chairman's public silence has fostered speculation within the party that the GOP could cut off resources to Trump soon and focus on salvaging down ballot races.
"We're watching the end of the Trump campaign," one Republican state director told NBC News. "There is clearly no control over him inside the operation."
The state director added that Republican officials were waiting for word from the RNC on how to allocate their efforts in the final month.
On October 10 2016 05:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: 2020 is God's gift to the GOP. So if Clinton wins she better pray is she able to put 2-3 judges on the Supreme Court. As I only see a 1 term Presidency for her.
On October 10 2016 05:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: 2020 is God's gift to the GOP. So if Clinton wins she better pray is she able to put 2-3 judges on the Supreme Court. As I only see a 1 term Presidency for her.
I actually think Clinton can hold on pretty well if she gets in and just does a normal job as president. Her approval ratings tend to go up when she's not campaigning. The GOP's bench is scattered in the wind at the moment and their party is in open disarray - what up and comers are there in the party who weren't already dismantled by the orange menace? Ivanka Trump? Four years IS a long time though.
For all Clinton's unpopularity, the GOP was incapable of fielding a realistic challenger to her who could make it through the gauntlet of their base.
On October 09 2016 18:22 kwizach wrote: For those unfamiliar with some of Mike Pence's views, here's a clip in which he discusses evolution and creationism:
Rargh my ears!
Did you hear that at the end: "One day, through science (and perhaps, through faith) we will find out the truth of from whence we came. "
On October 10 2016 05:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: 2020 is God's gift to the GOP. So if Clinton wins she better pray is she able to put 2-3 judges on the Supreme Court. As I only see a 1 term Presidency for her.
We will see if they recover from this. They have been the accomplish nothing party for 8 years now. Unless they get new leadership, nothing will change. They need to focus on finding members of their party that can win a national election, rather than darlings of the ultra conservative wing.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
You don't understand how democratic politics work. Bernie is doing exactly what he needs. He isn't selling out, this was the game plan all along if he didn't get the nomination.
Yeah but he isn't going to get anything in return. Clinton will do everything she had initially planned. He's too old to run 2020, so it is the end for him and his movement. All of the things he fought for will be forgotten in time.
Polling showed Cruz around even with her (though it got worse as the primary got nastier) and Rubio beating her regularly. Given how Clinton's favorables have tanked (even further) I think any of the candidates who seemed mentally capable of being president could have won.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
I strongly disagree. Firstly, this election was far more important than Bernie, stopping Trump isn't just a priority for Clinton supporters, it's a priority for Bernie supporters. Focusing on the difference between Hillary and Bernie is short sighted, the important priority for Bernie supporters was stopping Trump, Trump beating Clinton would be a far worse result that Clinton beating Bernie. Secondly, Bernie didn't sell for nothing, Bernie got a number of his priority policies incorporated into the Clinton package, both by presenting a threat from the left that forced her to compete for those supporters and later by selling himself. Thirdly, this election is a moral litmus test. You can't stand above it and say it's not important to you, it's important to every American. 2016 is a year in which Americans have to pass judgement, one way or another, on xenophobic populism as a movement. You do not look good by refusing to take a stance on whether that should be opposed. You just don't.
I supported Bernie in the primary but I find no fault with his subsequent actions.
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that if the democrats somehow took the house (it's still pretty unlikely now, but it was unthinkable on thursday) and try to implement the DNC platform it will actually be very close to what Bernie was aiming for. I never would have dreamed the platform would have moved so far a year ago
That is what he was aiming for with his political revolution bit. He knew if he just won the white house and nothing else maybe he could get a little work done but not much. He needed people to be so amped up that the democrats would destroy across the board. Win local, state, and congressional elections as well so they could actually push things forward. His message of with me you're not getting more of the same you're getting someone who actually cares and wants to make massive overhauls got people excited. If people think they're just voting for cookie cutter democrat #8721304 they don't care, there's no revolution, and nothing actually changes.
It's why I'm so pleased that some Trump supporters are now openly calling for voting against the downballet politicians who have unendorsed Trump. If they tear themselves apart, this country can finally fucking move forward after 16 awful years.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
You don't understand how democratic politics work. Bernie is doing exactly what he needs. He isn't selling out, this was the game plan all along if he didn't get the nomination.
Yeah but he isn't going to get anything in return. Clinton will do everything she had initially planned. He's too old to run 2020, so it is the end for him and his movement. All of the things he fought for will be forgotten in time.
He can bring someone else up. Bring attention to a new candidate that will further what he wants. And he will get something out of it. Clinton will have to try and follow through on parts of his platform she adopted.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
You don't understand how democratic politics work. Bernie is doing exactly what he needs. He isn't selling out, this was the game plan all along if he didn't get the nomination.
Yeah but he isn't going to get anything in return. Clinton will do everything she had initially planned. He's too old to run 2020, so it is the end for him and his movement. All of the things he fought for will be forgotten in time.
"his movement" is about having left progressing policies in the left leaning party. Whatever you say about her Clinton is indeed more conservative then the average democrat. That means the same policies and issues will be pursued more in a world of continued democratic national victory not less.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
You don't understand how democratic politics work. Bernie is doing exactly what he needs. He isn't selling out, this was the game plan all along if he didn't get the nomination.
Yeah but he isn't going to get anything in return. Clinton will do everything she had initially planned. He's too old to run 2020, so it is the end for him and his movement. All of the things he fought for will be forgotten in time.
What do you think would happen if the GOP collapses and the democrats take back the house and senate with fairly large majorities? I think they actually get quite a lot done. If it's Clinton's agenda, just what do you think she does?
There's simply no contest between the GOP/DNC agendas currently. They're both very clear about what they want to set out to do.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
You don't understand how democratic politics work. Bernie is doing exactly what he needs. He isn't selling out, this was the game plan all along if he didn't get the nomination.
Yeah but he isn't going to get anything in return. Clinton will do everything she had initially planned. He's too old to run 2020, so it is the end for him and his movement. All of the things he fought for will be forgotten in time.
Clinton incorporated $13/hr minimum wage into her platform if I recall correctly. It's not the 15 Bernie was going for but it's not the $7 currently in use. I've worked with people making $7/hr and while most of them are as thick as two short planks they also can't make ends meet. $7 isn't enough. It's not enough for anyone.
On October 10 2016 05:15 biology]major wrote: The real loser in all of this, is Bernie. He started a movement and sold out and lost to the very thing he was fighting against. Trump doesn't give a shit if he loses, he's still rich and is going to go into retirement, or start a new media empire. Bernie will be forgotten as a sellout, if he didn't endorse HRC though he would have been remembered.
You don't understand how democratic politics work. Bernie is doing exactly what he needs. He isn't selling out, this was the game plan all along if he didn't get the nomination.
Yeah but he isn't going to get anything in return. Clinton will do everything she had initially planned. He's too old to run 2020, so it is the end for him and his movement. All of the things he fought for will be forgotten in time.
What do you think would happen if the GOP collapses and the democrats take back the house and senate with fairly large majorities? I think they actually get quite a lot done. If it's Clinton's agenda, just what do you think she does?
There's simply no contest between the GOP/DNC agendas currently. They're both very clear about what they want to set out to do.
I would expect Republicans to fillibuster everything they can in that case.
Is the Tea Party heading towards a large defeat? Will the more moderate Republicans take back control in a Democratic landslide or are the crazies the safe ones (I expect them to be).
The Tea Party of Nope will keep noping for as long as they have the power to. They have shown they don't care about national affects. Only their own re-election which hinges on obstructionism of the Demon Obama/Hillary.
On October 10 2016 03:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Guess that says something about the 'merits' of democracy when two shitty candidates are your choices.
Democracy isn't about having the best clothes. It's about doing the laundry regularly. It's about the theory that you never want a government that's too efficient, too professional, too powerful. That it is better to have 6 mediocre leaders over 40 years than one good one over the same time.
On October 10 2016 05:06 JW_DTLA wrote: EDIT: do you remember Cruz's government shutdown? Where Obama said ... no ... and he got nothing? Such genius!
In Cruz's defense, his cause got nothing but he became a nationally known icon. It was like the Mike Pence debate performance; bad at its stated aim, but good at self promotion.
That said, I'm sure Cruz is crying into his pillow that if he had stayed strong another week or two he could have looked like a hero, and now he looks like a fool.
On October 10 2016 05:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: 2020 is God's gift to the GOP. So if Clinton wins she better pray is she able to put 2-3 judges on the Supreme Court. As I only see a 1 term Presidency for her.
Though Clinton vs. Ryan will be a cage match for the ages.
EPT
