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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 08 2016 17:35 GMT
#107781
If the GOP wants to survive this, they need to follow Mike pence's lead. He has somehow not tarnished his reputation by being the vp of trump, which is quite impressive to me. If they abandon trump, the GOP will never win an election in the future. Condemn his comments and hope for him to change, but to abandon him at this stage should only come after his supporters abandon him, which hasn't happened.
Question.?
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
October 08 2016 17:38 GMT
#107782
On October 09 2016 02:35 biology]major wrote:
If the GOP wants to survive this, they need to follow Mike pence's lead. He has somehow not tarnished his reputation by being the vp of trump, which is quite impressive to me. If they abandon trump, the GOP will never win an election in the future. Condemn his comments and hope for him to change, but to abandon him at this stage should only come after his supporters abandon him, which hasn't happened.

you think they can win another election in 4 years after going down together with Trump since you don't think tossing him is a good idea?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
October 08 2016 17:38 GMT
#107783
On October 09 2016 02:35 biology]major wrote:
If the GOP wants to survive this, they need to follow Mike pence's lead. He has somehow not tarnished his reputation by being the vp of trump, which is quite impressive to me. If they abandon trump, the GOP will never win an election in the future. Condemn his comments and hope for him to change, but to abandon him at this stage should only come after his supporters abandon him, which hasn't happened.

Sexual assault, not just comments. The key distinction is why people are saying he should quit.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-08 17:39:15
October 08 2016 17:38 GMT
#107784
On October 09 2016 02:35 biology]major wrote:
If the GOP wants to survive this, they need to follow Mike pence's lead. He has somehow not tarnished his reputation by being the vp of trump, which is quite impressive to me. If they abandon trump, the GOP will never win an election in the future. Condemn his comments and hope for him to change, but to abandon him at this stage should only come after his supporters abandon him, which hasn't happened.


What in the world makes you say this? Pence already started off quite unpopular; a big reason that he went for the VP slot is because he was going to get crushed in his re-election bid for governor.

True Trump supporters will also never abandon him and that's why trying to drop Trump (voluntarily or involuntarily) off the ticket won't work either; Trump supporters will still vote for Trump, which will just split the Republican votes.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Titan107
Profile Joined March 2016
30 Posts
October 08 2016 17:38 GMT
#107785
On October 09 2016 02:29 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

are you concerned that his seeming lack of policy knowledge will hinder his ability to actually make useful policies once it gets down into the gritty details of implementation? or do you think that as long as he sets the general aim, others will be able to craft the details well enough?


I believe he is a smart individual in selecting successful people to work for him. No one really had Pence on the radar, but at the last debate he proved to be a strong VP candidate. Honestly, Pence isn't really liked in Indiana, but Trump selected him because he was a clear fit for the type of individual he wants in his inner circle. I believe Trump will continue this type of selection through his cabinet, which lines more along the, 'others will be able to craft the details well enough.'

On the other side, Tim Kaine was a pick just to secure Virginia in the electoral college. It was a political choice in which Hillary made to become elected. I find it interesting because the question you gave explains both candidates. Hillary will do back room deals to pass what they want, while Donald will hire more knowledgeable non-yes-men to correct issues plaguing this country.

Of course, this is how I perceive both candidates. Others may see it differently.
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9118 Posts
October 08 2016 17:39 GMT
#107786
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

Is there a single economist that sees this as the outcome of Trump's economic plan?
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-08 17:40:24
October 08 2016 17:39 GMT
#107787
On October 09 2016 02:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:


Unsurprising. At this point even if he wins the debate, any bounce would be cancelled by this video, and probably taken into the negative when the others come out.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 08 2016 17:40 GMT
#107788
Economists can't be trusted. They are experts, after all.
Yargh
Titan107
Profile Joined March 2016
30 Posts
October 08 2016 17:40 GMT
#107789
On October 09 2016 02:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.


1) I'm not a Hillary supporter.

2) How do you reconcile the fact that none of what Trump proposes will actually work? That his economic policy would be an unmitigated disaster? That he has repeatedly demonstrated that he has no clue how to accomplish things politically?

3) It says a lot about the type of person that you are when you don't give a shit about social issues.



I'll just go with #3 because you already have a clear bias against me because of that question.

So, #3: Go fuck yourself.

User was temp banned for this post.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
October 08 2016 17:41 GMT
#107790
On October 09 2016 02:29 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

Would you do me a favour and explain Common Core to me, specifically the parts that make you feel the whole thing should be removed.


I was hoping for an explanation of the same. Please do enlighten us Titan
LiquidDota Staff
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 08 2016 17:42 GMT
#107791
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5583 Posts
October 08 2016 17:42 GMT
#107792
On October 09 2016 02:38 Titan107 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:29 zlefin wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

are you concerned that his seeming lack of policy knowledge will hinder his ability to actually make useful policies once it gets down into the gritty details of implementation? or do you think that as long as he sets the general aim, others will be able to craft the details well enough?


I believe he is a smart individual in selecting successful people to work for him. No one really had Pence on the radar, but at the last debate he proved to be a strong VP candidate. Honestly, Pence isn't really liked in Indiana, but Trump selected him because he was a clear fit for the type of individual he wants in his inner circle. I believe Trump will continue this type of selection through his cabinet, which lines more along the, 'others will be able to craft the details well enough.'

On the other side, Tim Kaine was a pick just to secure Virginia in the electoral college. It was a political choice in which Hillary made to become elected. I find it interesting because the question you gave explains both candidates. Hillary will do back room deals to pass what they want, while Donald will hire more knowledgeable non-yes-men to correct issues plaguing this country.

Of course, this is how I perceive both candidates. Others may see it differently.

Tim Kaine would be like Legate Broca was to the Dominion in a Clinton administration. Just an afterthought.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 08 2016 17:42 GMT
#107793
Ohio is so not going to Trump...
Yargh
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 08 2016 17:43 GMT
#107794
On October 09 2016 02:38 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:35 biology]major wrote:
If the GOP wants to survive this, they need to follow Mike pence's lead. He has somehow not tarnished his reputation by being the vp of trump, which is quite impressive to me. If they abandon trump, the GOP will never win an election in the future. Condemn his comments and hope for him to change, but to abandon him at this stage should only come after his supporters abandon him, which hasn't happened.

you think they can win another election in 4 years after going down together with Trump since you don't think tossing him is a good idea?


Yes, they nominated him and now need to win or drown with him. The GOP is screwed either way.
Question.?
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
October 08 2016 17:43 GMT
#107795
On October 09 2016 02:38 Titan107 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:29 zlefin wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

are you concerned that his seeming lack of policy knowledge will hinder his ability to actually make useful policies once it gets down into the gritty details of implementation? or do you think that as long as he sets the general aim, others will be able to craft the details well enough?


I believe he is a smart individual in selecting successful people to work for him. No one really had Pence on the radar, but at the last debate he proved to be a strong VP candidate. Honestly, Pence isn't really liked in Indiana, but Trump selected him because he was a clear fit for the type of individual he wants in his inner circle. I believe Trump will continue this type of selection through his cabinet, which lines more along the, 'others will be able to craft the details well enough.'

On the other side, Tim Kaine was a pick just to secure Virginia in the electoral college. It was a political choice in which Hillary made to become elected. I find it interesting because the question you gave explains both candidates. Hillary will do back room deals to pass what they want, while Donald will hire more knowledgeable non-yes-men to correct issues plaguing this country.

Of course, this is how I perceive both candidates. Others may see it differently.


I saw the pence pick as "no one wants to hitch their political star to me except for this one dude in Indiana who is looking for a way out of losing his reelection"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 08 2016 17:44 GMT
#107796
On October 09 2016 02:38 Titan107 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:29 zlefin wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

are you concerned that his seeming lack of policy knowledge will hinder his ability to actually make useful policies once it gets down into the gritty details of implementation? or do you think that as long as he sets the general aim, others will be able to craft the details well enough?


I believe he is a smart individual in selecting successful people to work for him. No one really had Pence on the radar, but at the last debate he proved to be a strong VP candidate. Honestly, Pence isn't really liked in Indiana, but Trump selected him because he was a clear fit for the type of individual he wants in his inner circle. I believe Trump will continue this type of selection through his cabinet, which lines more along the, 'others will be able to craft the details well enough.'

On the other side, Tim Kaine was a pick just to secure Virginia in the electoral college. It was a political choice in which Hillary made to become elected. I find it interesting because the question you gave explains both candidates. Hillary will do back room deals to pass what they want, while Donald will hire more knowledgeable non-yes-men to correct issues plaguing this country.

Of course, this is how I perceive both candidates. Others may see it differently.


so far trump's hires haven't managed to put out sound policy details. I'd think by now, that it's far enough into the campaign, that he should've hired people to flesh out his general ideas into sound implementable policies.

There's a lot of people who'd make decent VP candidates in general; vp selection is a rather odd process really.

Kaine was a decent vp pick in general from what I've heard. Most people say the way he behaved in the debate was rather uncharacteristic of him; but that he was embracing the "attack dog" role that VPs often have.

It's too bad the VP spent so little time attacking each other. Everyone has downsides and negatives, but so little was covered about theirs.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-08 17:46:47
October 08 2016 17:44 GMT
#107797
On October 09 2016 02:35 biology]major wrote:
If the GOP wants to survive this, they need to follow Mike pence's lead. He has somehow not tarnished his reputation by being the vp of trump, which is quite impressive to me. If they abandon trump, the GOP will never win an election in the future. Condemn his comments and hope for him to change, but to abandon him at this stage should only come after his supporters abandon him, which hasn't happened.

I'm not really convinced that the party can unfuck themselves for the long term. Following Pence's lead will unfuck them for the short term, but it also doesn't really change course on the core problems with the Republican party as a whole.

Trump brought to light the disconnect between the will of the Republican party and the will of it's base. The party as a whole needs to reimagine itself in a way that isn't big-money Republicans subverting the interests of their base of common voters. That these people fell in line with Trump doesn't change the corporate shills that they are, and brown-nosing Trump a little bit to get re-elected should not be enough to convince anyone otherwise. The fact that they are so willing to jump ship when he doesn't look like he's helping their down ticket election chances just proves that.
Moderator
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44314 Posts
October 08 2016 17:45 GMT
#107798
On October 09 2016 02:41 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2016 02:29 KwarK wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:25 Titan107 wrote:
On October 09 2016 02:14 zlefin wrote:
titan -> do you vote on general capability to enact/design good policy, or on people who's policy choices align with yours?


After my post, there were 3 comments. 2 were Hillary supporters foaming at the mouth because I spoke against her, and the third was yours, a good question. So, I will respond to yours.

His policy choices align with mine and the direction I would like the country to take in the next 4 years. Immigration, education (removal of common core), foreign policy, and economy.

I could care less about social issues. I'd rather get the country profitable and growing before worrying about LGBT or gender issues.

Would you do me a favour and explain Common Core to me, specifically the parts that make you feel the whole thing should be removed.


I was hoping for an explanation of the same. Please do enlighten us Titan


Me too. I'm always interested in education topics, and I wonder what Titan's issue is with Common Core.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44314 Posts
October 08 2016 17:45 GMT
#107799
On October 09 2016 02:42 JinDesu wrote:
Ohio is so not going to Trump...


Especially with Kasich being outspoken against Trump!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44314 Posts
October 08 2016 17:47 GMT
#107800
[image loading]

That's pretty much the best response that Pence can give. At least he admitted that Trump actually made those comments, unlike the other hundred things that Pence denied Trump saying when Kaine brought them up in the VP debate...
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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