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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
waaaaaahh why isnt mommy addressing the crisis of my crying
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Democrats are willing to negotiate the future of the country after the crisis. There is no point negotiating the crisis since its completely artificial and exists only because one side wants it to exist.
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On October 11 2013 03:43 Gorsameth wrote:
Democrats are willing to negotiate the future of the country after the crisis. There is no point negotiating the crisis since its completely artificial and exists only because one side wants it to exist.
The key issue is that they can´t accept the crisis as bargaining chip. Too bad for the Republicans that they don´t have anything else.
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On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever Show nested quote +
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed .
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
That timeline seems off... The Supreme Court, for one, upheld Obamacare way before June 2013. It was in 2012 that they upheld it.
Though, I was never one to trust such simplified propaganda to begin with, as liberal as I may be. Even the Daily Show does a better (and more accurate) job.
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On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed .
We already know how much Obama has invested in ACA. He doesn't want to negotiate. Pelosi pushed it through the house with only 1 Republican supporter, in the Senate they got none. Why Negotiate with this history of success?
It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here's the result of that, we're sitting in a full 20% government shutdown.
Boehner will be Boehner, so now defunding is off the table (even given Democrats' insistence on not negotiating). Generally, you wait until the other side comes to the negotiating table before giving away how much you're ready to yield. Oh well, gotta roll with what you got and look for any way to replace House leadership next time around. He isn't at the McCain-level of surrender yet, it looks like.
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On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . We already know how much Obama has invested in ACA. He doesn't want to negotiate. Pelosi pushed it through the house with only 1 Republican supporter, in the Senate they got none. Why Negotiate with this history of success? It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here's the result of that, we're sitting in a full 20% government shutdown. Boehner will be Boehner, so now defunding is off the table (even given Democrats' insistence on not negotiating). Generally, you wait until the other side comes to the negotiating table before giving away how much you're ready to yield. Oh well, gotta roll with what you got and look for any way to replace House leadership next time around. He isn't at the McCain-level of surrender yet, it looks like.
Great. And in the 2012 Elections, Democrats gained 13 seats in the House and 2 seats in the Senate. They also regained the Presidency.
Guess the American people weren't all gung-ho about burning down Obamacare at the expense of the country?
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On October 11 2013 02:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 02:27 kwizach wrote:On October 11 2013 02:00 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On October 10 2013 22:57 kwizach wrote:On October 10 2013 03:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On October 10 2013 01:52 kwizach wrote:On October 10 2013 01:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On October 10 2013 00:32 kwizach wrote:On October 10 2013 00:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On October 09 2013 23:11 kwizach wrote:[quote] I'm not saying you can't make a gun holding analogy. I'm pointing out that it means someone is holding the gun, which implies responsibility, which is why I just replied on the topic of responsibility. How the hell was my explanation to you partisan in any way?! The exact same analysis would still be valid if the roles were reversed and Democrats had adopted the strategy Republicans are currently using. My point is completely unrelated to the parties' positions on issues and completely centered on the way they've chosen to get what they want. Here is the latest post I wrote in our exchange - you're welcome to show me where my explanation of the difference between the Republicans' current strategy and normal negotiation processes is supposed to be partisan. You're also welcome to respond to the arguments I presented you with. Well first, the "destruction of the baseline" complaint has two sides. Reps aren't offering anything other than the baseline and Dems aren't demanding anything other than it either. There's also a questions as to whether changing the ACA is strictly a Rep demand - a lot of Dems have problems with the ACA too (including Obama). Yet, it is suddenly being treated as a sacred cow. Uh, what? The baseline includes the ACA, since it's a law. Similarly, the current baseline includes the sequestration cuts, because they were voted on. Republicans don't like the ACA and Democrats don't like the sequester cuts to social programs, but they're both part of the baseline. If Obama and the Democrats held the position "we won't finance the government and raise the debt ceiling unless you agree to remove the sequester cuts", they would be putting the destruction of the baseline as the result of negotiation failure. They're not doing that, though, Republicans are. That's why they are to blame for the current crisis. kwizach, who cares about the baseline? Why is your hyper obsession with the baseline appropriate? You have to establish that "the destruction of the baseline" is the ultimate thing that matters before you can say that who is guilty revolves around it. The baseline is what matters to understand how the current crisis came into being and who's to blame for it. I explained at length why. On October 10 2013 01:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Moreover, Dems have a hand in "the destruction of the baseline" since they've made the conscious decision to use the baseline as their position.
So, your position seems to be that since Dems have decided to make the baseline as their position, they can't be blamed. Why? No they haven't. At all. Democrats would like plenty of things that are not the baseline - to repeal sequestration cuts, to spend money on infrastructure, to pass immigration reform, to pass gun control measures, etc. Democrats have absolutely not decided to use the baseline as their position: it is the Republicans who attributed it to them, by saying that they would grant them the normal functioning of government, and the usual debt limit increase (which are not Democrat gains but the baseline) in exchange for the defunding/delay of ACA (which is a Republican gain). It's mind-blowing that I'm still having to repeat stuff like this this far into the conversation. On October 10 2013 01:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On October 10 2013 00:32 kwizach wrote:On October 10 2013 00:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Secondly, there have been refusals to negotiate on both sides. You only cited when Reps have refused to negotiate. Hence "partisan". I asked you to "show me where my explanation of the difference between the Republicans' current strategy and normal negotiation processes is supposed to be partisan". What you just referred to wasn't part of my explanation of the difference between the Republican strategy and normal negotiation processes. I guess you agree it wasn't partisan after all. With regards to what you're referring to, when have the Democrats refused to negotiate on the budget (other than under the Republican strategy these last few days)? I don't care what you asked specifically. You do not have a monopoly on creating decision criteria. You accused me of giving a partisan account. The entire point of my exchange with you was to demonstrate how the strategy used by Republicans (not their positions but their strategy, I insist) was out of the realm of normal negotiation processes. So I'm asking you how in hell was that analysis partisan. I'm still waiting for you to substantiate your claim. On October 10 2013 01:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
You keep trying to make a "if X is true than Y is true" argument when I don't agree that we should be looking at X. If you are going to insist on a "discussion" that can only consider the points you want to make, than I'm out. I am addressing the topic of who's to blame for the current crisis. To see who's to blame, you have to look at the actions of both parties, which I did, and that led me to recognize that the Republicans have been using a strategy which does not conform to normal negotiation. So far, you've squirmed your way out of admitting this objective fact in a desperate attempt at avoiding to recognize Republican responsibility in the crisis. If you had an once of intellectual honesty you would have agreed with me on the nature of the Republican strategy and moved on instead of clinging to a fallacious "both sides are to blame" position. kwizach, I'm not disagreeing with every point you're trying to make. However, you are insisting (by very tightly framing the discussion) that only the facts that make the Republicans to blame can be considered. That's unfair. That's partisan. And if you insist on keeping the discussion that way, as I said, I'm out. Jonny, if you want to discuss general budget negotiations and who's to blame for negotiation failure, be my guest (I'll still argue it's Republicans, based on the numerous attempts at negotiating made by Democrats which were blocked by Republicans, but w/e). What I am discussing is the current crisis (the government being shutdown and the debt limit being at risk of not being raised) and who is to blame for it. The facts show us, as I've repeatedly demonstrated to you, that Republicans are to blame for the current crisis, based on the strategy they have adopted: they are the ones who made government shutdown the outcome of negotiation failure, not the Democrats. What facts pertaining to the existence of the shutdown that would point to a responsibility of Democrats do you think should be considered? Dems are refusing to negotiate. I've said it a million times, and I don't extend them a "two wrongs make a right" or "it would, politically, be bad" or "they're terrorists" exemption from that responsibility. They're adults in Congress and their responsibilities exist even if the situation is difficult. I don't know if you're doing it purpose, but did you even read the post you were replying to? I specifically underlined the distinction between being willing to negotiate or not and putting the destruction of the baseline as the result of negotiation failure. Do you not understand this distinction or something? Again, if you want to blame both Republicans and Democrats for not negotiating, be my guest - you'll be wrong to say both are equally to blame, imo, but that is not what I am arguing about here. What I am arguing about is who is responsible for putting the destruction of the baseline, i.e. the shutdown of the government and possibly a failure to raise the debt limit, as the result of negotiation failure. Do you agree, yes or no, that it is the Republicans who are responsible for this? Have you read any of my posts? How many times do I have to say that I don't accept your distinction, the destruction of the baseline, and / or the acute cause of it, as the crux of the issue?
Johnny has committed to his version of reality and I don't see anyone swaying him. He has repeatedly refused to acknowledge the truth so I wouldn't waste time with him
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What will you give me in exchange for not burning down your house?
This is the republican idea of a negotiation.
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On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal.
Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010
Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012
In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010.
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On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010.
I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives.
As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare.
Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light??
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE
Romney went way more extreme than Bush or McCain ever did, suggesting to completely defund Planned Parenthood (which is the primary caregiver to millions of low-income women), an even crazier neocon foreign policy, and wanting to privatize social security. With Paul Ryan and his magic asterisks, he openly wanted to rip apart the social safety net. He talked about privatizing FEMA for fuck's sake. Bush and McCain never went that far.
And now Romney was a "moderate." Wow.
Once again, the point of view of the conservatives is that it's all about purity, rather than sanity or reality. Excellent demonstration.
And healthcare was a major part of both campaigns. Now conservatives pretend it wasn't because they lost. Shocking.
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On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE
According to Wolf Blitzer, he was talking about the website, not Obamacare as a whole.
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On October 11 2013 10:28 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE Romney went way more extreme than Bush ever did, suggesting to completely defund Planned Parenthood (which is the primary caregiver to millions of low-income women), an even crazier neocon foreign policy, and wanting to privatize social security. With Paul Ryan and his magic asterisks, he openly wanted to rip apart the social safety net. He talked about privatizing FEMA for fuck's sake. And now Romney was a "moderate." Wow. Once again, the point of view of the conservatives is that it's all about purity, rather than sanity or reality. Excellent demonstration.
None of which were made into significant issues in the campaign. Well, except by the left. They would rather talk about contraceptives than the economy (until that final jobs report came out.) Just because Mediamatters goes and hypes something doesn't make it important.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/158267/economy-dominant-issue-americans-election-nears.aspx
(EDIT:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-top-issues-for-voters/ FIXED LINK.)
So no, he didn't lose because he was too right wing. And certainly not because of Obamacare.
Besides, I didn't say he was a complete moderate, just that he was moderate enough to be labeled as such.
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On October 11 2013 10:31 Adila wrote:According to Wolf Blitzer, he was talking about the website, not Obamacare as a whole.
I know, I didn't clarify. I mean, even Wolf thinks it should be delayed. It's only the president's stubbornness that allowed this to go into effect when every reputable person said it wasn't ready.
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On October 11 2013 10:38 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:28 DoubleReed wrote:On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE Romney went way more extreme than Bush ever did, suggesting to completely defund Planned Parenthood (which is the primary caregiver to millions of low-income women), an even crazier neocon foreign policy, and wanting to privatize social security. With Paul Ryan and his magic asterisks, he openly wanted to rip apart the social safety net. He talked about privatizing FEMA for fuck's sake. And now Romney was a "moderate." Wow. Once again, the point of view of the conservatives is that it's all about purity, rather than sanity or reality. Excellent demonstration. None of which were made into significant issues in the campaign. Well, except by the left. They would rather talk about Abortion than the economy (until that final jobs report came out.) Just because Mediamatters goes and hypes something doesn't make it important. http://www.gallup.com/poll/158267/economy-dominant-issue-americans-election-nears.aspx(EDIT: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-top-issues-for-voters/)So no, he didn't lose because he was too right wing. And certainly not because of Obamacare. Besides, I didn't say he was a complete moderate, just that he was moderate enough to be labeled as such.
No, if anything he lost because he talked about self-deportation.
There aren't enough white voters for the GOP to win. The republican base turned out perfectly fine. There's just not that much of the republican base anymore, because they've alienated so many others.
So yes, the economy was obviously a major issue. But there's nothing to suggest that Romney was too moderate to invigorate the base. The base was there, if for no other reason than to oppose Obama.
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On October 11 2013 10:45 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:38 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:28 DoubleReed wrote:On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE Romney went way more extreme than Bush ever did, suggesting to completely defund Planned Parenthood (which is the primary caregiver to millions of low-income women), an even crazier neocon foreign policy, and wanting to privatize social security. With Paul Ryan and his magic asterisks, he openly wanted to rip apart the social safety net. He talked about privatizing FEMA for fuck's sake. And now Romney was a "moderate." Wow. Once again, the point of view of the conservatives is that it's all about purity, rather than sanity or reality. Excellent demonstration. None of which were made into significant issues in the campaign. Well, except by the left. They would rather talk about Abortion than the economy (until that final jobs report came out.) Just because Mediamatters goes and hypes something doesn't make it important. http://www.gallup.com/poll/158267/economy-dominant-issue-americans-election-nears.aspx(EDIT: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-top-issues-for-voters/)So no, he didn't lose because he was too right wing. And certainly not because of Obamacare. Besides, I didn't say he was a complete moderate, just that he was moderate enough to be labeled as such. No, if anything he lost because he talked about self-deportation. There aren't enough white voters for the GOP to win. The republican base turned out perfectly fine. There's just not that much of the republican base anymore, because they've alienated so many others.
You are changing the subject. I just showed you that none of that other stuff was important. Obamacare was NOT a major campaign issue.
I'm not going to start down another rabbit hole, I just thought I would address a statement that is easily disproved.
No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true.
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On October 11 2013 10:48 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:45 DoubleReed wrote:On October 11 2013 10:38 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:28 DoubleReed wrote:On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE Romney went way more extreme than Bush ever did, suggesting to completely defund Planned Parenthood (which is the primary caregiver to millions of low-income women), an even crazier neocon foreign policy, and wanting to privatize social security. With Paul Ryan and his magic asterisks, he openly wanted to rip apart the social safety net. He talked about privatizing FEMA for fuck's sake. And now Romney was a "moderate." Wow. Once again, the point of view of the conservatives is that it's all about purity, rather than sanity or reality. Excellent demonstration. None of which were made into significant issues in the campaign. Well, except by the left. They would rather talk about Abortion than the economy (until that final jobs report came out.) Just because Mediamatters goes and hypes something doesn't make it important. http://www.gallup.com/poll/158267/economy-dominant-issue-americans-election-nears.aspx(EDIT: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-top-issues-for-voters/)So no, he didn't lose because he was too right wing. And certainly not because of Obamacare. Besides, I didn't say he was a complete moderate, just that he was moderate enough to be labeled as such. No, if anything he lost because he talked about self-deportation. There aren't enough white voters for the GOP to win. The republican base turned out perfectly fine. There's just not that much of the republican base anymore, because they've alienated so many others. You are changing the subject. I just showed you that none of that other stuff was important. Obamacare was NOT a major campaign issue. I'm not going to start down another rabbit hole, I just thought I would address a statement that is easily disproved.
Yes, the statement that Romney was too moderate to invigorate the base is easily disproved.
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On October 11 2013 10:50 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:48 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:45 DoubleReed wrote:On October 11 2013 10:38 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:28 DoubleReed wrote:On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:
Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
[quote] pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE Romney went way more extreme than Bush ever did, suggesting to completely defund Planned Parenthood (which is the primary caregiver to millions of low-income women), an even crazier neocon foreign policy, and wanting to privatize social security. With Paul Ryan and his magic asterisks, he openly wanted to rip apart the social safety net. He talked about privatizing FEMA for fuck's sake. And now Romney was a "moderate." Wow. Once again, the point of view of the conservatives is that it's all about purity, rather than sanity or reality. Excellent demonstration. None of which were made into significant issues in the campaign. Well, except by the left. They would rather talk about Abortion than the economy (until that final jobs report came out.) Just because Mediamatters goes and hypes something doesn't make it important. http://www.gallup.com/poll/158267/economy-dominant-issue-americans-election-nears.aspx(EDIT: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/06/exit-polls-top-issues-for-voters/)So no, he didn't lose because he was too right wing. And certainly not because of Obamacare. Besides, I didn't say he was a complete moderate, just that he was moderate enough to be labeled as such. No, if anything he lost because he talked about self-deportation. There aren't enough white voters for the GOP to win. The republican base turned out perfectly fine. There's just not that much of the republican base anymore, because they've alienated so many others. You are changing the subject. I just showed you that none of that other stuff was important. Obamacare was NOT a major campaign issue. I'm not going to start down another rabbit hole, I just thought I would address a statement that is easily disproved. Yes, the statement that Romney was too moderate to invigorate the base is easily disproved.
I haven't seen any data on it, feel free to find some. I mean, I'm sure he got the most hardcore people, the "Tea Party" because those people are actively involved, but he got fewer Republican votes overall. Republicans were not happy with him.
But Obamacare was NOT a major issue. So everyone in this thread should STOP saying it.
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On October 11 2013 10:08 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 09:18 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here is the 2010 results. 44 million to 38 million for the Republicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2010Here is the 2012 results. 60 million to 58 million for the Democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2012In a year where the election was about Obamacare as much as 2010. I keep seeing this, and it keeps confusing me. Obamacare was a topic for conservatives, but with Romney as the candidate, all he said was "yea, I'll repeal it." The republicans spent very little time talking about it, their strategy has always been "let's let it fail first." It was about jobs, the economy, and (if your name happened to be Obama) it was about attacking wealth and giving out contraceptives. As to the vote spread, I think the Dems did a good job of get out the vote. Obama received less votes and lesser percentage of them than in 2008, but the problem was that Romney failed to mobilize the conservative base, as he got LESS votes than McCain! Romney lost because he was a "moderate," it didn't have all that much to do with Obamacare. Edit: Even Wolf Blitzer is going to see the light?? + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYju593o9eE
Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose,"
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacare
And here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.html
William Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal."
: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.html
The election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/
EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/
This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacare
This election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/
The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-law
John 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_news
Mitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-ruling
Obamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.html
election referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-ruling
Romney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/
Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.html
Obamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/
Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers.
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EPT
