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No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true.
Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain.
And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics.
Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy.
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On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy.
If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it).
+ Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers.
I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it.
Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!"
now, Romney did get a higher % of Republicans than McCain did, and the % of total votes that were republican was the same, but yet with that higher % of both independents and republicans that DID show up, he still got fewer votes. Romney did not energize the base.
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On October 11 2013 11:08 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy. If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it). Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers. I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it. Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!"
Mitt Romney: Obamacare IS about the economy. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-03-22/mitt-romney-health-reform-repeal-obamacare/53711598/1
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On October 11 2013 11:08 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy. If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it). Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers. I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it. Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!"
I don't think you understood what I meant. Republicans are becoming Independents. They aren't necessarily becoming less conservative, they're just identifying with the party less. Hence Romney would get a higher percentage of independents than McCain because there are more independents and less republicans overall. The same people could have voted with different affiliation.
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On October 11 2013 11:12 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 11:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy. If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it). + Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers. I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it. Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!" Mitt Romney: Obamacare IS about the economy. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-03-22/mitt-romney-health-reform-repeal-obamacare/53711598/1
You continue to give me things that are irrelevant. It picked up around the time of the Court decision, and it was big before, it was of minimal importance when the vote actually occurred.
And like I showed, the voters were NOT voting on healthcare, so at the very best it's a wash. Obama was not reelected because everyone loved Obamacare.
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On October 11 2013 11:13 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 11:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy. If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it). + Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers. I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it. Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!" I don't think you understood what I meant. Republicans are becoming Independents. They aren't necessarily becoming less conservative, they're just identifying with the party less. Hence Romney would get a higher percentage of independents than McCain because there are more independents and less republicans overall. The same people could have voted with different affiliation.
For the most part there arent that many real independents. There are Republican leaning independents who vote reliably Republican and there are Democrat leaning independents who vote reliably Democrat. However, in situations when the Party itself is looking worse-for-wear and people have to hold their nose and vote for it, some kind of internal psychology causes people to stop identifing themselves as that party supporter and still vote for it. Which is why Obama 'lost' the Independent vote. More democrat leaning independents identified themselves as democrats while republican leaning independents increased because so many people were disappointed with Mitt Romney as a candidate -- along with the rest of the primary I might add, which is why everyone led Mitt Romney at one point except for poor old Hunstman and that other white dude --
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On October 11 2013 11:16 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 11:12 Sub40APM wrote:On October 11 2013 11:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy. If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it). + Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers. I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it. Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!" Mitt Romney: Obamacare IS about the economy. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-03-22/mitt-romney-health-reform-repeal-obamacare/53711598/1 You continue to give me things that are irrelevant. It picked up around the time of the Court decision, and it was big before, it was of minimal importance when the vote actually occurred. And like I showed, the voters were NOT voting on healthcare, so at the very best it's a wash. Obama was not reelected because everyone loved Obamacare. The poll showed that 'the economy' was the biggest issue. I showed you how Obamacare was subsumed into the economy issue by Republicans who read the outcome of 2010 logically -- that Obamacare is highly unpopular -- and doubled down on it.
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On October 11 2013 11:13 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 11:08 Introvert wrote:On October 11 2013 10:55 DoubleReed wrote:No, Romney failed to get even the votes of John McCain. And Conservatives blasted Romney the whole time, they were not happy with him. So yes, that is my theory. You can disagree, but my original point about Obamacare is quite clearly true. Again, the "base" was motivated because it was against Obama. The reason he didn't even get the votes of John McCain is because he went way loopier than McCain. And you know, maybe people thought Obama actually wanted to help people get employed, rather than just dismantle the government. Just sayin'. It's not like republicans have a good track record with economics. Edit: Also, the reason he got fewer republican votes is because independents are increasing at the expense of republicans. Because republicans have gone loopy. If I recall correctly, Romney won independents, or was very close. I can't find data on how many Republicans actually went to the polls, but he got fewer overall votes with a higher % of independents, so it seems logical that he lost due to low party turn out. (if someone can find these stats I would appreciate it). + Show Spoiler +Karl Rove's communication director: "The Supreme Court's decision forces Obamacare to be litigated in the 2012 election, and in virtually every case where Obamacare has been litigated by voters in an election, the law and its supporters lose," http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2012/06/29/republicans-prepare-election-fight-over-obamacareAnd here is Karl Rove himself in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577309532091933136.htmlWilliam Cristol's paper "Yes, the fate of Obamacare will be the most important outcome of this election. On some level, the American people know this. There’s a reason why Romney gets standing ovations simply for mentioning repeal." : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-just-became-about-obamacare_647928.htmlThe election is about many things, but mostly about Obamacare. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/09/23/the-last-chance-to-stop-obamacare-election/EVERY Republican primary candidate makes it clear that the election is about Obamacare: http://ivn.us/2012/03/26/presidential-candidates-view-on-healthcare/This election is about Obamacare, and we republicans will win because no one likes it! http://www.npr.org/2012/06/28/155913745/weekly-standard-this-elections-about-obamacareThis election is about repealing Obamacare! http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/2012_election_alert_this_is_the_year_to_stop_obamacare/The Hill quotes a number of Republican office holders making it clear that 2012 is the election on Obamacare: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/235821-gop-worries-2012-election-may-be-last-chance-to-defeat-health-lawJohn 'The President can torture anyone anytime' Yoo. The law will become very much part of the next election campaign: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvldtd_will-obamacare-still-be-under-fire-in-2012-election_newsMitt Romney collects millions 24 hours after the ACA upheld: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0629/Mitt-Romney-rakes-in-4.6-million-just-24-hours-after-Obamacare-rulingObamacare key attack point for Paul Ryan: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/19/162763/obamacares-unpopularity-blunts.htmlelection referendum on obamacare: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18911216/2012/06/28/schuette-november-election-will-be-referendum-on-obamacare-rulingRomney vowed that on his first day in office he will repeal Obamacare: http://www.salon.com/2012/06/04/romney_aide_cashes_in_on_obamacare/Romney might have lost the election because he was too soft on Obamacare: http://www.newser.com/story/149527/romneys-obamacare-gaffe-could-cost-him-the-election.htmlObamacare is a key election issue in 2012: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/obamacare-and-2012-campaign/Now today, as I was just googling this, I noticed a lot of Republican blogs are trying to articulate the claim you have made, that 2012 was not about Obamacare. Unfortunately, just like the North, remembers. I just posted the polls saying it was not an issue. No matter how much I would have LOVED for it to be an issue, the voters simply were not concerned about it and thus didn't vote based on it. Thus, Obama's election was not a voter sentiment of "YAY! Obamacare!" I don't think you understood what I meant. Republicans are becoming Independents. They aren't necessarily becoming less conservative, they're just identifying with the party less. Hence Romney would get a higher percentage of independents than McCain because there are more independents and less republicans overall. The same people could have voted with different affiliation.
I've thought about not being an official part of the party,it sucks and it doesn't do anything. My point is, Romney failed to get out as many voters as McCain. All the polls showed this before hand, as well. Remember how some conservatives were attacking poll data that showed a higher democrat turnout? Romney could not get as many people to vote for him as McCain did, and fewer people overall voted. People looked at the two and thought "eh, they really aren't so different." Millions of people stayed home, democrats and Republicans. But more of them were republicans (edit: This may in fact be false, ignore it. I'm not going to pretend it didn't exist, just in case someone quotes me, it will be right here.)
If anything your statement backs my claim that Republicans were and are unhappy with their party and who the party leaders keep picking.
And what Sub40 said backs me up as well. Romney was not popular with the conservative side of the party.
Edit:
The poll showed that 'the economy' was the biggest issue. I showed you how Obamacare was subsumed into the economy issue by Republicans who read the outcome of 2010 logically -- that Obamacare is highly unpopular -- and doubled down on it.
You showed me some editorials and such. Obamacare was not an issue as the election closed in. Every source you gave with the exception of one is form August or before, most of them published around the time of the ruling, when it was getting press. And if you could show where the people identified Obamacare as a significant part of the vote, I would appreciate it. The polls I gave you certainly didn't seem to indicate that.
FOR CLARITY: I'm not saying Romney would have won, but he would have done better. The democrats turnout was down as well (If I had to guess I would say all those people thrilled to vote for Obama the first time stayed home) but Romney also failed to get people to show up.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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I posted a CNN exit poll also. Economy: 66%. healthcare: 17%. etc.
No such poll exists, unless the other ones I found are outright fraudulent.
Edit: But yes, I know Gallup needs to step it up and go for internet polling, cell polling, etc.
I didn't plan on spending too much time here, I've got things to do. But can we drop this whole thing about "The election was about Obamacare!" The polls say it wasn't, even though some wanted it to be (me included). So stop saying that. Especially since every poll shows that Americans disapprove of Obamacare. (Whether or not that is due to the "right wing media" is irrelevant, people don't like it, but didn't vote one way or another because of it.)
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I never really cared whether people thought Obamacare was the main focus of the 2012 election or not. Personally, the economy was my main concern.
We've already been over this, however. A plurality of Americans disapprove of Obamacare, but not nearly as many wish to have it repealed or defunded. That's a fact you'll have to keep in mind.
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On October 11 2013 12:00 Souma wrote:
I never really cared whether people thought Obamacare was the main focus of the 2012 election or not. Personally, the economy was my main concern.
We've already been over this, however. A plurality of Americans disapprove of Obamacare, but not nearly as many wish to have it repealed or defunded. That's a fact you'll have to keep in mind.
I am aware of that. I am making the point that every time someone says that "the election was about Obamcare" they are wrong. That's all.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Whelp, as long as that's clear. 
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I've thought about not being an official part of the party,it sucks and it doesn't do anything. My point is, Romney failed to get out as many voters as McCain. All the polls showed this before hand, as well. Remember how some conservatives were attacking poll data that showed a higher democrat turnout? Romney could not get as many people to vote for him as McCain did, and fewer people overall voted. People looked at the two and thought "eh, they really aren't so different." Millions of people stayed home, democrats and Republicans. But more of them were republicans (and they obviously didn't all go independent).
If anything your statement backs my claim that Republicans were and are unhappy with their party and who the party leaders keep picking.
And what Sub40 said backs me up as well. Romney was not popular with the conservative side of the party.
People generally leave from the middle of the aisle first. I'd probably more closely identify with the Green party as far as ideology but I'm not going to give up being a democrat because of it. I don't like how centrist Obama is. So? I'm still a democrat.
The people leaving to become independents are the more moderate republicans, as the republican brand is veering so hard right that people say that Romney was a moderate. I'm not exactly sure what issue you think Romney was moderate on.
As I said, it doesn't matter whether Romney was popular with the conservative side of the party because they were motivated to hate Obama with a fiery passion. They could have put a ferret up for a candidate and the conservative base would have gone for it. This idea that he needed to appeal to the base more is not accurate. He got less base because the base is shrinking.
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Just 24 percent of Americans have a positive opinion of the Republican party, according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released Thursday.
The survey reflects a record low in approval for the GOP for NBC/WSJ poll, which dates back to 1989.
The poll also found an increase in support for the Affordable Care Act with 38 percent of respondents approving of the law -- up from 31 percent in the same poll last month.
The GOP took a big hit over the shutdown. Americans blame Republicans over Obama for the shutdown by a 53-31 margin. Seventy percent said that Republicans were placing politics ahead of the country's best interest. Fifty-one percent said that Obama is putting his agenda above the country.
A Gallup poll released Wednesday found that 28 percent of Americans view Republicans favorably, also an all-time low for that poll.
The NBC/WSJ poll surveyed 800 people Oct. 7-9 and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percent.
Source
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On October 11 2013 07:38 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 07:25 Danglars wrote:On October 11 2013 05:03 quebecman77 wrote:On October 11 2013 03:24 darthfoley wrote:Saw this online, thought it was kinda clever
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
pretty much this for people who say obama should or are also to blame about the shutdown.... they are nothing to negociate anyway , republicains just want to destroy the healtcare..... republicains are 100% reponsable of all the shit who happen right now , just hope everyone know that and they will get blamed . We already know how much Obama has invested in ACA. He doesn't want to negotiate. Pelosi pushed it through the house with only 1 Republican supporter, in the Senate they got none. Why Negotiate with this history of success? It was all great and fun, break out the champagne, until the midterm elections of 2010. Voters came in to yell out their opposition. Republicans gained 6 in the Senate and 63 in the House. Biggest midterm swing since 1938. Most Republicans gave their pledge to defund or repeal. Here's the result of that, we're sitting in a full 20% government shutdown. Boehner will be Boehner, so now defunding is off the table (even given Democrats' insistence on not negotiating). Generally, you wait until the other side comes to the negotiating table before giving away how much you're ready to yield. Oh well, gotta roll with what you got and look for any way to replace House leadership next time around. He isn't at the McCain-level of surrender yet, it looks like. Great. And in the 2012 Elections, Democrats gained 13 seats in the House and 2 seats in the Senate. They also regained the Presidency. Guess the American people weren't all gung-ho about burning down Obamacare at the expense of the country?
This has been adequately answered by another in this thread. I will just add that 2010 was the biggest midterm swing in modern history, and 2012 was poor Republican turnout ... running Romneycare against Obamacare, last two years nothing substantial done except cave cave cave to the Democrats. You know, somewhere down the line Republicans have to prove themselves able to do something to capture the anti-Obamacare vote, and not just sit around sucking their thumbs. There was a lot of momentum in 2010 and the American voice was heard.
If Obama was more the brilliant political strategist and not the liberal ideologue, he'd compromise with the all-too-willing Republicans and move on to whatever's next on the leftist agenda. Lucky for Boehner, and the search for his spine, Obama is still intransigent.
Obama's approval rating at 37%! Some Republicans here may remember how much of a field day the liberal media had when Bush dropped to 36% approval. He's having some success pinning it on the Republicans, but you can't spin it from the entire country, that's for sure.
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An estimated 7 million people have been shut out at 12 of the busiest and biggest U.S. national parks, costing parks and nearby communities about $76 million in lost visitor spending for each day the partial government shutdown drags on.
That's according to a report just out from the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, which derived its estimates from actual National Park Service visitation numbers from last October and an independent analysis of park economic impacts conducted by the nonpartisan group Headwaters Economics.
The report also concludes that more than 40,000 non-Park Service jobs are at risk in and outside these 12 national parks alone.
"These figures are mind-boggling, and they only begin to capture the full economic shock of locking up the crown jewels of America," says Maureen Finnerty, the Coalition's chair and a former superintendent at Everglades and Olympic National Parks.
Source
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On October 11 2013 15:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +An estimated 7 million people have been shut out at 12 of the busiest and biggest U.S. national parks, costing parks and nearby communities about $76 million in lost visitor spending for each day the partial government shutdown drags on.
That's according to a report just out from the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, which derived its estimates from actual National Park Service visitation numbers from last October and an independent analysis of park economic impacts conducted by the nonpartisan group Headwaters Economics.
The report also concludes that more than 40,000 non-Park Service jobs are at risk in and outside these 12 national parks alone.
"These figures are mind-boggling, and they only begin to capture the full economic shock of locking up the crown jewels of America," says Maureen Finnerty, the Coalition's chair and a former superintendent at Everglades and Olympic National Parks. Source
In other news, Obama tries to make the government shut down hurt as many Republicans as possible. Now Republicans, Democrats. It is a matter of historical record that people were allowed to visit the national parks in previous government shutdowns, with park service kiosks closed. What is mind-boggling is the extent to which Obama and allies are trying to make the shutdown felt, considering how minor in impact it is.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the more politically costly it is to republicans, the less they'll do it again. so obama is doing it for the good of the country!
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On October 11 2013 16:53 oneofthem wrote:
the more politically costly it is to republicans, the less they'll do it again. so obama is doing it for the good of the country!
To a certain extent, that's true. Why make a shutdown as painless as possible? It's supposed to be such a bad idea that you'd never think of doing it.
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EPT
