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On July 08 2016 06:52 Surth wrote: The phrase "virtue signalling" can eat a cock and die, by the way. Yes, whenever we communicate we are also performing our own identity; using the word "virtue signalling" is itself just another kind of signalling (usually signalling like you are above such things). But from the point of view of sign value (of which virtue signalling is just a corruded bastard-concept), acting like you dont care about virtue-signalling is just another, pseudo-rebellious sign-value.
Sorry it's going nowhere as long as PC culture continues to assert itself as a force of censorship and absurdity and SJWs continue to be internet crusaders.
Phrases like this are a direct consequence of the regressive left.
dont forget cultural marxism. jesus christ.
Let me try again with more and simpler words, maybe you will understand. The word "virtue signalling" is an attempt to smear people for e.g. solidarising themselves with political forces they do not have a direct stake in, such as me talking about racism in america despite not even living in america. Oh, you are just virtue signalling by posting on teamliquid, surth.
This is retarded because "trying to seem virtuous" is not a fundamental motivator of human behaviour. People don't necessarily want to appear virtuous. People, much more fundamentally, want to have a stable identity. For some, that identity is precisely virtuous, but others, such as you or Testie, precisely get a kick out of seeming "non-virtuous" or "non-pc" or, more abstractly, being contrarian. By posting about "virtue signalling" you are in fact engaging IN THE EXACT SAME OPERATION AS THOSE WHOM YOU ARE CRITICIZING, you are broadcasting a certain identity of yourself. so "virtue signalling" is just a subset of "identity signalling" that conveniently only attacks people on the left.
Does this help? or do i have to peel the banana too?
On July 08 2016 05:59 OuchyDathurts wrote: [quote]
Honestly I think this is part of the problem. Being a cop is basically a job that no one is really qualified to do and no person in their right mind would want. What person really wants to wield that kind of power? I think the fact that we have a lot of very ordinary people doing a job that is extraordinary in nature leads to a ton of problems. The average Joe just isn't cut out for that line of work and yet they're out there doing it anyway and when the rubber meets the road weak people crumble and the shit hits the fan. To do the job properly calls for extraordinary people.
I agree that's part of the problem. It's by no means an easy job, especially when the communities you police despise you because someone else couldn't handle the pressures of the job and fucked up. They have to work as positions of authority in cultures where 'police are out to assassinate us, they're all racist, fuck the po-lice' is commonplace and there is no respect for the authority conferred upon their position. Then they have to go out and put their lives on the line serving these same people.
No one makes them take the job though. Its a hard job if they can't handle it don't sign up for it. The vast majority of cops shouldn't be cops. Police shouldn't be revenue collectors, their performance shouldn't be based on quotas, they need to be enforcing way way way less stupid laws, there should be a fraction of the total number of police now like way less cops total, there should be way more oversight, way more regulation, body cams, dash cams. They should be significantly better trained, constantly tested and evaluated, rigorous physical and mental fitness testing no tub of shit cops, they should be paid well because they should be the cream of the crop, they should be from the communities they serve. They're currently none of those things.
This country has some things all wrong and the criminal justice system is right up there. Police should be the Navy Seals or Delta Force of humans. The apex, the best of the best. But not at killing people, at being strong, smart, brave, but also kind and caring. People are always going to resent authority, they always have and they always will, nothing will change that. It's part of the job and the type of person we want as police should know that and totally get it. People are going to dislike them and it's understandable for them to. They still have a job to do though and that job isn't being done properly right now.
You're never going to fill the ranks of the police force though if you set Delta Force standards.
Funny that you say that, because other countries do. At least in psychological evaluations, nobody is complaining about a cop stuffing his face with donuts, not able to run after a pocket thief.
We're talking people not able to cope with stress-situations, in a job that literally should have "stress resistant" as baseline.
I do believe many countries struggle to train enough policemen for their needs. Shortages seem to be pretty common.
That has nothing to do with a lack of applicants or too high standards, but underfunding.
That doesn't take away from the difficulty of making an idealistic police force 'delta force' quality.
Especially in a country the size of the USA.
Only an idiot would want "soldier-quality" cops in the first place, so i don't see the problem there.
I'm not the one advocating for it.
Don't think anyone was. Just better than what we got. Like at least a year in training in deescalation, including real world situations both simulated (for more extreme cases) and live for less explosive situations.
In the example of Alton Sterling there was basically 0 deescalation. That's failed policing regardless of whether the end result was justified in any way.
That's part of the problem and where I agree on the false focus. There are always several mistakes/failures before it even gets to the point where these officers shoot in the first place.
Alton Sterling was a victim of hero syndrome and that's made clear before they even say he has a gun.
On July 08 2016 05:35 GreenHorizons wrote: People who defend the police, and more importantly defend the legal process that follows, I have to ask. What percentage of killings/complaints of abuse by police do you think there is no wrong doing worthy of criminal penalty?
The vast majority of police are just ordinary people doing their job.
Honestly I think this is part of the problem. Being a cop is basically a job that no one is really qualified to do and no person in their right mind would want. What person really wants to wield that kind of power? I think the fact that we have a lot of very ordinary people doing a job that is extraordinary in nature leads to a ton of problems. The average Joe just isn't cut out for that line of work and yet they're out there doing it anyway and when the rubber meets the road weak people crumble and the shit hits the fan. To do the job properly calls for extraordinary people.
I agree that's part of the problem. It's by no means an easy job, especially when the communities you police despise you because someone else couldn't handle the pressures of the job and fucked up. They have to work as positions of authority in cultures where 'police are out to assassinate us, they're all racist, fuck the po-lice' is commonplace and there is no respect for the authority conferred upon their position. Then they have to go out and put their lives on the line serving these same people.
No one makes them take the job though. Its a hard job if they can't handle it don't sign up for it. The vast majority of cops shouldn't be cops. Police shouldn't be revenue collectors, their performance shouldn't be based on quotas, they need to be enforcing way way way less stupid laws, there should be a fraction of the total number of police now like way less cops total, there should be way more oversight, way more regulation, body cams, dash cams. They should be significantly better trained, constantly tested and evaluated, rigorous physical and mental fitness testing no tub of shit cops, they should be paid well because they should be the cream of the crop, they should be from the communities they serve. They're currently none of those things.
This country has some things all wrong and the criminal justice system is right up there. Police should be the Navy Seals or Delta Force of humans. The apex, the best of the best. But not at killing people, at being strong, smart, brave, but also kind and caring. People are always going to resent authority, they always have and they always will, nothing will change that. It's part of the job and the type of person we want as police should know that and totally get it. People are going to dislike them and it's understandable for them to. They still have a job to do though and that job isn't being done properly right now.
You're never going to fill the ranks of the police force though if you set Delta Force standards.
Much of the training they go through is to ensure they are strong, smart, brave, kind, caring, etc. They are obviously trained not to kill innocent people. Most normal people wouldn't dream of doing that. The real world just works differently than these idealistic standards of a 'perfect police force of the citizens finest doing their duty to enforce justice'. The work they have to do is sometimes dark and gritty and a lot of cops die in the line of duty because fearing for their lives is a very real thing.
The reality is you have normal ordinary people being tasked with a great deal of responsibility and power and expected to do extraordinary things. They work their hardest to do things most people take for granted.
People not respecting them because of their fuck-ups seems like a spoiled teenager bad-mouthing their parent who gave them everything. Yes there's a few parents who abuse their children but the vast majority are normal people who want to do right by their children. Spoiled bratty teenagers who don't know what it's like to work in the real world just don't understand what being a grown-up is like until they have to live through it themselves.
The vast majority of people whining that police are racists, trying to assassinate people, abuse their power are people who have never had to deal with any sort of adversity in their lives on par with that of serving as police.
I'm not saying I want black ops police. In fact generally I'm not big on military veterans being police at all. It's too easy to go from a military occupying force us vs. them mentality and bring it into civilian scenarios. I think that's a major no-no and it creates a shitload of the problems we're seeing. I'm talking about that degree of excellence but as good people. We demand only the best for the job.
The world police currently opperate in isn't the real world. A lot of the problems are because we have them making money for the department and enforcing laws that shouldn't exist let alone be enforced. All those things end up doing is A- Requiring more police and B- Making more situations for all those police to interact and get into situations that could turn south. We want less police that are better trained and we want those better trained police to have less reasons to hassle people over BS.
Again, I want zero ordinary people on the police force. If you have Joe Sixpack on the force you're going to have problems. It's not a job a regular person can handle properly.
People don't like authority, they never have and never will. I'm sorry, deal with it.
That last sentence is laughable.
I think the biggest problem with US police is training. The constant in these scenario's is always 'he made a threatening move', 'I feared for my life' ect ect. Its like police spend every moment of their job fearing some dude is going to kill them. Now of course a significant part of that is the prevalence of guns but more then that I feel like its a lack of confidence and training in how to handle and de-escalate situations. It always sounds as if they are completely inadequately prepared in how to deal with normal and routing situations.
Take the recent one with the broken light traffic stop. You never need to approach a vehicle you stop for a broken tail light with a drawn gun. Ever. Even if the biggest bunch of gang stereotype weed smoking guys are in it. The moment you approach with a drawn gun any hope of de-escalating or alternate approach is gone. Either he complies or you have to shoot him. That is terrible! Then when you ask for his driver license and he mentions he has a gun in his pocket aswell you don't order him to put up his hands, there is no need for it, a guy that is planning to shoot you is not going to tell you he has a gun. Sure, pay some more attention to his movement but again, no reason to escalate the situation.
Every single one of these incidents is always preceded but such blatant failures that they are nigh impossible to comprehend for someone from outside the US. No cop will ever act that way in Europe and so all these life or death situations can not even begin to take form.
The extreme cases of cops executing handcuffed suspects are a completely different problem obvious but I wager you can reduce a massive number of police shootings every year but simply giving cops proper training, cause what ever the hell their being taught now. Its garbage.
On July 08 2016 07:03 Falling wrote: I don't think people should be offended by a six-pointed star. . .it's on the flag of Israel. Context matters. In this case we have the star of David with money in the background, talking about corruption from an account (FishBoneHead) that routinely posts racially abhorrent things (uglifying the image of Harriet Tubman as the new proposed money and hook-nosing a Jewish journalist). I think it is a very small step to think for an account this sort Money + Corruption + Jewish star + Clinton = Clinton is part of the Jewish corruption, the rigged system against white people. It's a dog whistle that Trump's campaign seems either intentionally or unintentionally ignorant of.
On July 08 2016 06:57 ticklishmusic wrote: The PC/SJW crowd exists, but you can't point to their histrionics and be like "oh they're making it up, there's no problem with discrimination at all". Goodness knows the reasonable people on the left dislike them too. In fact, the right may like them more because it lets them pretend that real systemic racism isn't a problem because libtards (I'm happy to call that particular crowd that) are crying about someone chalking MAGA on a college campus.
The reasonable people on the left that dislike them are more marginal and more scared to call them out. The lines are stark on free speech issues, due process issues, as well as discrimination issues. They'd do well to uniformly call out hilarious accusations of racism/sexism as well as unjustified dismissal of charges.
On July 08 2016 06:52 Surth wrote: The phrase "virtue signalling" can eat a cock and die, by the way. Yes, whenever we communicate we are also performing our own identity; using the word "virtue signalling" is itself just another kind of signalling (usually signalling like you are above such things). But from the point of view of sign value (of which virtue signalling is just a corruded bastard-concept), acting like you dont care about virtue-signalling is just another, pseudo-rebellious sign-value.
Sorry it's going nowhere as long as PC culture continues to assert itself as a force of censorship and absurdity and SJWs continue to be internet crusaders.
Phrases like this are a direct consequence of the regressive left.
dont forget cultural marxism. jesus christ.
Let me try again with more and simpler words, maybe you will understand. The word "virtue signalling" is an attempt to smear people for e.g. solidarising themselves with political forces they do not have a direct stake in, such as me talking about racism in america despite not even living in america. Oh, you are just virtue signalling by posting on teamliquid, surth.
This is retarded because "trying to seem virtuous" is not a fundamental motivator of human behaviour. People don't necessarily want to appear virtuous. People, much more fundamentally, want to have a stable identity. For some, that identity is precisely virtuous, but others, such as you or Testie, precisely get a kick out of seeming "non-virtuous" or "non-pc" or, more abstractly, being contrarian. By posting about "virtue signalling" you are in fact engaging IN THE EXACT SAME OPERATION AS THOSE WHOM YOU ARE CRITICIZING, you are broadcasting a certain identity of yourself. so "virtue signalling" is just a subset of "identity signalling" that conveniently only attacks people on the left.
Does this help? or do i have to peel the banana too?
Oh I fully understand, even through your shitty patronizing tone, what your point is.
I've never said anything about you virtue signaling personally so I don't know why you're getting all butthurt about arguments and positions here that don't exist. I have no problem with you discussing racism in Amercia.
In regards to your actual substance, I would have to disagree with your underlined assertion. I think very-much that people care about being 'good people' and 'looking like good people' as to fit in with normal society. I think this is part of what it is they want from a stable identity.
Stop describing me like you know anything about me because someone upset you by making fun of you for 'virtue signaling' when you didn't think you were, and now you think I'm the same because I used the same phrase. I have nothing to do with whoever upset you and made you rabid at the phrase 'virtue signaling'. I get no kick about being contrarian. It's the regressive left that has made an issue out of non-issues time and time again and they only have themselves to blame for the backlash.
I don't think I was even attacking the left so to speak as much as I was attacking the regressive left. If you think I'm accusing all liberals of this then that's just your thin-skin continuing to be offended over nothing.
If you're actually a reasonable person you shouldn't even be upset about attacks against the regressive left.
You are talking about SEAL standards or delta force quality. Other people are talking about being psychologically apt, and having a good knowledge of the law.
Anyways, when you are talking about people getting killed, i hate to bring this up to this thread, but when any citizen can be armed, you will have this shit happen as the police must be extra careful. It's not like in other countries minorities get less killed because they aren't harassed by the police, but because there is very little chance they are armed in the first place to endanger the officer's life.
I agree that's part of the problem. It's by no means an easy job, especially when the communities you police despise you because someone else couldn't handle the pressures of the job and fucked up. They have to work as positions of authority in cultures where 'police are out to assassinate us, they're all racist, fuck the po-lice' is commonplace and there is no respect for the authority conferred upon their position. Then they have to go out and put their lives on the line serving these same people.
No one makes them take the job though. Its a hard job if they can't handle it don't sign up for it. The vast majority of cops shouldn't be cops. Police shouldn't be revenue collectors, their performance shouldn't be based on quotas, they need to be enforcing way way way less stupid laws, there should be a fraction of the total number of police now like way less cops total, there should be way more oversight, way more regulation, body cams, dash cams. They should be significantly better trained, constantly tested and evaluated, rigorous physical and mental fitness testing no tub of shit cops, they should be paid well because they should be the cream of the crop, they should be from the communities they serve. They're currently none of those things.
This country has some things all wrong and the criminal justice system is right up there. Police should be the Navy Seals or Delta Force of humans. The apex, the best of the best. But not at killing people, at being strong, smart, brave, but also kind and caring. People are always going to resent authority, they always have and they always will, nothing will change that. It's part of the job and the type of person we want as police should know that and totally get it. People are going to dislike them and it's understandable for them to. They still have a job to do though and that job isn't being done properly right now.
You're never going to fill the ranks of the police force though if you set Delta Force standards.
Funny that you say that, because other countries do. At least in psychological evaluations, nobody is complaining about a cop stuffing his face with donuts, not able to run after a pocket thief.
We're talking people not able to cope with stress-situations, in a job that literally should have "stress resistant" as baseline.
I do believe many countries struggle to train enough policemen for their needs. Shortages seem to be pretty common.
That has nothing to do with a lack of applicants or too high standards, but underfunding.
That doesn't take away from the difficulty of making an idealistic police force 'delta force' quality.
Especially in a country the size of the USA.
Only an idiot would want "soldier-quality" cops in the first place, so i don't see the problem there.
I'm not the one advocating for it.
Don't think anyone was. Just better than what we got. Like at least a year in training in deescalation, including real world situations both simulated (for more extreme cases) and live for less explosive situations.
In the example of Alton Sterling there was basically 0 deescalation. That's failed policing regardless of whether the end result was justified in any way.
That's part of the problem and where I agree on the false focus. There are always several mistakes/failures before it even gets to the point where these officers shoot in the first place.
Alton Sterling was a victim of hero syndrome and that's made clear before they even say he has a gun.
I think most reasonable people will agree there is a problem and that something needs to be done. The issue is in the complexity of the problem and the difficulty in coming up with pragmatic, meaningful solutions that we can actually enact on a political level.
On July 08 2016 05:35 GreenHorizons wrote: People who defend the police, and more importantly defend the legal process that follows, I have to ask. What percentage of killings/complaints of abuse by police do you think there is no wrong doing worthy of criminal penalty?
The vast majority of police are just ordinary people doing their job.
Honestly I think this is part of the problem. Being a cop is basically a job that no one is really qualified to do and no person in their right mind would want. What person really wants to wield that kind of power? I think the fact that we have a lot of very ordinary people doing a job that is extraordinary in nature leads to a ton of problems. The average Joe just isn't cut out for that line of work and yet they're out there doing it anyway and when the rubber meets the road weak people crumble and the shit hits the fan. To do the job properly calls for extraordinary people.
I agree that's part of the problem. It's by no means an easy job, especially when the communities you police despise you because someone else couldn't handle the pressures of the job and fucked up. They have to work as positions of authority in cultures where 'police are out to assassinate us, they're all racist, fuck the po-lice' is commonplace and there is no respect for the authority conferred upon their position. Then they have to go out and put their lives on the line serving these same people.
No one makes them take the job though. Its a hard job if they can't handle it don't sign up for it. The vast majority of cops shouldn't be cops. Police shouldn't be revenue collectors, their performance shouldn't be based on quotas, they need to be enforcing way way way less stupid laws, there should be a fraction of the total number of police now like way less cops total, there should be way more oversight, way more regulation, body cams, dash cams. They should be significantly better trained, constantly tested and evaluated, rigorous physical and mental fitness testing no tub of shit cops, they should be paid well because they should be the cream of the crop, they should be from the communities they serve. They're currently none of those things.
This country has some things all wrong and the criminal justice system is right up there. Police should be the Navy Seals or Delta Force of humans. The apex, the best of the best. But not at killing people, at being strong, smart, brave, but also kind and caring. People are always going to resent authority, they always have and they always will, nothing will change that. It's part of the job and the type of person we want as police should know that and totally get it. People are going to dislike them and it's understandable for them to. They still have a job to do though and that job isn't being done properly right now.
You're never going to fill the ranks of the police force though if you set Delta Force standards.
Much of the training they go through is to ensure they are strong, smart, brave, kind, caring, etc. They are obviously trained not to kill innocent people. Most normal people wouldn't dream of doing that. The real world just works differently than these idealistic standards of a 'perfect police force of the citizens finest doing their duty to enforce justice'. The work they have to do is sometimes dark and gritty and a lot of cops die in the line of duty because fearing for their lives is a very real thing.
The reality is you have normal ordinary people being tasked with a great deal of responsibility and power and expected to do extraordinary things. They work their hardest to do things most people take for granted.
People not respecting them because of their fuck-ups seems like a spoiled teenager bad-mouthing their parent who gave them everything. Yes there's a few parents who abuse their children but the vast majority are normal people who want to do right by their children. Spoiled bratty teenagers who don't know what it's like to work in the real world just don't understand what being a grown-up is like until they have to live through it themselves.
The vast majority of people whining that police are racists, trying to assassinate people, abuse their power are people who have never had to deal with any sort of adversity in their lives on par with that of serving as police.
I'm not saying I want black ops police. In fact generally I'm not big on military veterans being police at all. It's too easy to go from a military occupying force us vs. them mentality and bring it into civilian scenarios. I think that's a major no-no and it creates a shitload of the problems we're seeing. I'm talking about that degree of excellence but as good people. We demand only the best for the job.
The world police currently opperate in isn't the real world. A lot of the problems are because we have them making money for the department and enforcing laws that shouldn't exist let alone be enforced. All those things end up doing is A- Requiring more police and B- Making more situations for all those police to interact and get into situations that could turn south. We want less police that are better trained and we want those better trained police to have less reasons to hassle people over BS.
Again, I want zero ordinary people on the police force. If you have Joe Sixpack on the force you're going to have problems. It's not a job a regular person can handle properly.
People don't like authority, they never have and never will. I'm sorry, deal with it.
That last sentence is laughable.
I think the biggest problem with US police is training. The constant in these scenario's is always 'he made a threatening move', 'I feared for my life' ect ect. Its like police spend every moment of their job fearing some dude is going to kill them. Now of course a significant part of that is the prevalence of guns but more then that I feel like its a lack of confidence and training in how to handle and de-escalate situations. It always sounds as if they are completely inadequately prepared in how to deal with normal and routing situations.
Take the recent one with the broken light traffic stop. You never need to approach a vehicle you stop for a broken tail light with a drawn gun. Ever. Even if the biggest bunch of gang stereotype weed smoking guys are in it. The moment you approach with a drawn gun any hope of de-escalating or alternate approach is gone. Either he complies or you have to shoot him. That is terrible! Then when you ask for his driver license and he mentions he has a gun in his pocket aswell you don't order him to put up his hands, there is no need for it, a guy that is planning to shoot you is not going to tell you he has a gun. Sure, pay some more attention to his movement but again, no reason to escalate the situation.
Every single one of these incidents is always preceded but such blatant failures that they are nigh impossible to comprehend for someone from outside the US. No cop will ever act that way in Europe and so all these life or death situations can not even begin to take form.
The extreme cases of cops executing handcuffed suspects are a completely different problem obvious but I wager you can reduce a massive number of police shootings every year but simply giving cops proper training, cause what ever the hell their being taught now. Its garbage.
Absolutely the ubiquity of guns add a certain level of uncertainty to everything. Those guns aren't going anywhere regardless of what you think about them they're always going to be a potential variable so police need to learn to live with that and work around it. More training is absolutely required so cops know how to calmly and confidently deal with a potential situation and bring everything down a few pegs.
I agree completely. Again I think so much of this comes back to the soldier/occupier/us vs. them mentality displayed by police now days. Camo, assault rifles, gas masks, etc. Even police cruisers here are made to completely blend into traffic now, they're sneaky. In Europe cop cars are bright green and hideous and stick out like a sore thumb so everyone can know "Hey that's a cop". It's just a different mentality where it's more like "Hey guys, I'm over here if you need help in my hideous car if you need it". I'm not a fan of cops being all covert ops when they're supposed to be servants of the community.
NSFW. THIS is what we should expect from every cop. This is absolutely amazing work. Even though he ends up shooting he does everything in his power to deescalate things and has some great discipline with his gun. + Show Spoiler +
I don't think I was even attacking the left so to speak as much as I was attacking the regressive left.
If you're actually a reasonable person you shouldn't even be upset about attacks against the regressive left.
I think one issue is that calling out raycism isn't regressive, just because people with raycist tendencies don't think it's raycist.
I feel like a bit of an authority here regarding raycism and I've called out stuff like the "salute" as being stupid to make a big deal about, the star was obviously a slight, either Trumps teams too idiotic to realize or they were intentionally offensive and those are probably equally likely. + Show Spoiler +
The spelling of raycism is intentional as to avoid any conflict here about what the word "racism" means. "Raycism" means what us SJW's more commonly refer to as "racism".
On July 08 2016 06:28 OuchyDathurts wrote: [quote]
No one makes them take the job though. Its a hard job if they can't handle it don't sign up for it. The vast majority of cops shouldn't be cops. Police shouldn't be revenue collectors, their performance shouldn't be based on quotas, they need to be enforcing way way way less stupid laws, there should be a fraction of the total number of police now like way less cops total, there should be way more oversight, way more regulation, body cams, dash cams. They should be significantly better trained, constantly tested and evaluated, rigorous physical and mental fitness testing no tub of shit cops, they should be paid well because they should be the cream of the crop, they should be from the communities they serve. They're currently none of those things.
This country has some things all wrong and the criminal justice system is right up there. Police should be the Navy Seals or Delta Force of humans. The apex, the best of the best. But not at killing people, at being strong, smart, brave, but also kind and caring. People are always going to resent authority, they always have and they always will, nothing will change that. It's part of the job and the type of person we want as police should know that and totally get it. People are going to dislike them and it's understandable for them to. They still have a job to do though and that job isn't being done properly right now.
You're never going to fill the ranks of the police force though if you set Delta Force standards.
Funny that you say that, because other countries do. At least in psychological evaluations, nobody is complaining about a cop stuffing his face with donuts, not able to run after a pocket thief.
We're talking people not able to cope with stress-situations, in a job that literally should have "stress resistant" as baseline.
I do believe many countries struggle to train enough policemen for their needs. Shortages seem to be pretty common.
That has nothing to do with a lack of applicants or too high standards, but underfunding.
That doesn't take away from the difficulty of making an idealistic police force 'delta force' quality.
Especially in a country the size of the USA.
Only an idiot would want "soldier-quality" cops in the first place, so i don't see the problem there.
I'm not the one advocating for it.
Don't think anyone was. Just better than what we got. Like at least a year in training in deescalation, including real world situations both simulated (for more extreme cases) and live for less explosive situations.
In the example of Alton Sterling there was basically 0 deescalation. That's failed policing regardless of whether the end result was justified in any way.
That's part of the problem and where I agree on the false focus. There are always several mistakes/failures before it even gets to the point where these officers shoot in the first place.
Alton Sterling was a victim of hero syndrome and that's made clear before they even say he has a gun.
I think most reasonable people will agree there is a problem and that something needs to be done. The issue is in the complexity of the problem and the difficulty in coming up with pragmatic, meaningful solutions that we can actually enact on a political level.
Are you suggesting the police aren't reasonable, because the unions that represent them don't see the problem? I would agree with that.
On July 08 2016 07:24 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I've never said anything about you virtue signaling personally so I don't know why you're getting all butthurt about arguments and positions here that don't exist. I have no problem with you discussing racism in Amercia.
And I never said anything about you saying anything about me etc! I used an (imaginary) example, hence "e.g."
fucking reading comprehension, eh.
In regards to your actual substance, I would have to disagree with your underlined assertion. I think very-much that people care about being 'good people' and 'looking like good people' as to fit in with normal society. I think this is part of what it is they want from a stable identity.
Thats because you are terrible at psychology. People care about identity, not about a "good" identity. Next thing you'll tell me people care about happiness like a silly englishman!
I don't think I was even attacking the left so to speak as much as I was attacking the regressive left. If you think I'm accusing all liberals of this then that's just your thin-skin continuing to be offended over nothing.
If you're actually a reasonable person you shouldn't even be upset about attacks against the regressive left.
the problem with insulting people is they think you are upset. I am not upset, I am just insulting you.
Anyways, when you are talking about people getting killed, i hate to bring this up to this thread, but when any citizen can be armed, you will have this shit happen as the police must be extra careful. It's not like in other countries minorities get less killed because they aren't harassed by the police, but because there is very little chance they are armed in the first place to endanger the officer's life.
I agree that is part of the problem too. Some other poster mentioned how cops in Europe don't have these issues but these same cops aren't dealing with the same threat levels as well for the reasons underlined in your post
Anyways, when you are talking about people getting killed, i hate to bring this up to this thread, but when any citizen can be armed, you will have this shit happen as the police must be extra careful. It's not like in other countries minorities get less killed because they aren't harassed by the police, but because there is very little chance they are armed in the first place to endanger the officer's life.
I agree that is part of the problem too. Some other poster mentioned how cops in Europe don't have these issues but these same cops aren't dealing with the same threat levels as well for the reasons underlined in your post
You should not feel like you are in mortal danger when approaching a car you pulled over for a broken tail light.
If your that intimidated by a random car you have no training and no confidence and certainly should not be patrolling the streets.
wow... of course, she had classified emails sent without the classified mark. I didn't noticed she said that until it was pointed out. Sharp man.
She's a slippery snake, hard to catch her. What's interesting is when Obama was asked about this investigation earlier he used the terms "careless" and then defended her based on her "intent". Several weeks later we get a statement by comey using those exact lines. Could be Obama is just super sharp, or its just another layer of questionable behavior on this email situation.
Edit: I thought comey was most likely forced to operate a certain way due to outside party influence but after seeing that hearing, I think that is pretty unlikely. He's a boss.
Anyways, when you are talking about people getting killed, i hate to bring this up to this thread, but when any citizen can be armed, you will have this shit happen as the police must be extra careful. It's not like in other countries minorities get less killed because they aren't harassed by the police, but because there is very little chance they are armed in the first place to endanger the officer's life.
I agree that is part of the problem too. Some other poster mentioned how cops in Europe don't have these issues but these same cops aren't dealing with the same threat levels as well for the reasons underlined in your post
You should not feel like you are in mortal danger when approaching a car you pulled over for a broken tail light.
If your that intimidated by a random car you have no training and no confidence and certainly should not be patrolling the streets.
Anyways, when you are talking about people getting killed, i hate to bring this up to this thread, but when any citizen can be armed, you will have this shit happen as the police must be extra careful. It's not like in other countries minorities get less killed because they aren't harassed by the police, but because there is very little chance they are armed in the first place to endanger the officer's life.
I agree that is part of the problem too. Some other poster mentioned how cops in Europe don't have these issues but these same cops aren't dealing with the same threat levels as well for the reasons underlined in your post
You should not feel like you are in mortal danger when approaching a car you pulled over for a broken tail light.
If your that intimidated by a random car you have no training and no confidence and certainly should not be patrolling the streets.
It doesn't matter if it's rare, but that it happens for a police officer to be really cautious and overdefensive.
There is a difference between being cautious and approaching every traffic stop with a drawn gun. You cannot do you job as a police officer if you act as if your in a more dangerous situation then a soldier in Iraq.
You have soldiers coming forward saying the rules for shooting someone are laxer in the police force then when they were deployed in Iraq/Afghanistan. How utterly fucked up is that.
No the US is not a war zone. Stop fucking treating it like one.
Anyways, when you are talking about people getting killed, i hate to bring this up to this thread, but when any citizen can be armed, you will have this shit happen as the police must be extra careful. It's not like in other countries minorities get less killed because they aren't harassed by the police, but because there is very little chance they are armed in the first place to endanger the officer's life.
I agree that is part of the problem too. Some other poster mentioned how cops in Europe don't have these issues but these same cops aren't dealing with the same threat levels as well for the reasons underlined in your post
You should not feel like you are in mortal danger when approaching a car you pulled over for a broken tail light.
If your that intimidated by a random car you have no training and no confidence and certainly should not be patrolling the streets.
It doesn't matter if it's rare, but that it happens for a police officer to be really cautious and overdefensive.
There is a difference between being cautious and approaching every traffic stop with a drawn gun. You cannot do you job as a police officer if you act as if your in a more dangerous situation then a soldier in Iraq.
You have soldiers coming forward saying the rules for shooting someone are laxer in the police force then when they were deployed in Iraq/Afghanistan. How utterly fucked up is that.
No the US is not a war zone. Stop fucking treating it like one.
The reality of guns in America has to be treated like any other job hazard. A table saw or chain saw can kill you, people can fall off ladders, a pallet of product can crush you, etc. So many jobs have deadly dangers and are statistically more dangerous. If you work around deadly heavy machinery or power tools you have to respect them and their ability to kill or maim you but you can never fear them. When you fear something that's when you get jittery and jumpy, fearing something is virtually asking to get hurt by it. Respecting a danger means you understand its power and the possibilities that come with it, but you work around it safely and smartly. Fear is how the Falcon Heights situation happens.
EPT
