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On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Trump will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way.
My Trump supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future.
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On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Trump will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Trump supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future.
Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Trump supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different.
And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them.
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On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them.
Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried.
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On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried.
What is a 'post factual democracy'?
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On June 25 2016 02:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried. What is a 'post factual democracy'?
One where representatives are no longer bound by facts and can freely lie without consequence.
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Honestly, I doubt UK leaving will have any real impact. It will just scare people and reveal whether the global economic slowdown is real, or a blip. Cameron is competent thus the next few months of transition will involve a series of boilerplate agreements as most the leaders of other countries are also internationalists.
In the years it takes to sever bonds everything will continue on, and the UK was never on the Euro or other particularly hard to unravel measures. The major blow is to people who want to expand super national entities to harmonize taxes, carbon policy, etc.
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On June 25 2016 02:08 cLutZ wrote:
Honestly, I doubt UK leaving will have any real impact. It will just scare people and reveal whether the global economic slowdown is real, or a blip. Cameron is competent thus the next few months of transition will involve a series of boilerplate agreements as most the leaders of other countries are also internationalists.
In the years it takes to sever bonds everything will continue on, and the UK was never on the Euro or other particularly hard to unravel measures. The major blow is to people who want to expand super national entities to harmonize taxes, carbon policy, etc.
Yeah he is so competent he practically sleep walked the Country to the edge of the plank on its toes and then couldnt regain his balance. UK overboard... he is done btw.
The world will move on after some expected discomfort .. The UK is the one thats going to get stung hard. Whatever, with all due respect to my former colonial masters, this will atleast serve as a good example of why nationalistic blowhards are actually full of shit. Atleast for a few years anyway, because no one pays attention in history class.
They literally pulled it off by repeating two things.. immigrants and EU TAX MONIES.. and then proceeded to back off the second promise immediately.
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On June 25 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried. What is a 'post factual democracy'? One where representatives are no longer bound by facts and can freely lie without consequence.
Politicians have been doing that for a while now then.
On June 25 2016 02:08 cLutZ wrote:
Honestly, I doubt UK leaving will have any real impact. It will just scare people and reveal whether the global economic slowdown is real, or a blip. Cameron is competent thus the next few months of transition will involve a series of boilerplate agreements as most the leaders of other countries are also internationalists.
In the years it takes to sever bonds everything will continue on, and the UK was never on the Euro or other particularly hard to unravel measures. The major blow is to people who want to expand super national entities to harmonize taxes, carbon policy, etc.
Cameron is resigning.
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On June 25 2016 02:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2016 02:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried. What is a 'post factual democracy'? One where representatives are no longer bound by facts and can freely lie without consequence. Politicians have been doing that for a while now then.
And people believe them is the other part. When you refuse to educate and inform yourself and believe whatever bs is thrown at you, you deserve what you get.
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On June 25 2016 02:17 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2016 02:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried. What is a 'post factual democracy'? One where representatives are no longer bound by facts and can freely lie without consequence. Politicians have been doing that for a while now then. And people believe them is the other part. When you refuse to educate and inform yourself and believe whatever bs is thrown at you, you deserve what you get.
It's gonna be okay why are you so angry?
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On June 25 2016 02:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:17 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 02:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2016 02:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried. What is a 'post factual democracy'? One where representatives are no longer bound by facts and can freely lie without consequence. Politicians have been doing that for a while now then. And people believe them is the other part. When you refuse to educate and inform yourself and believe whatever bs is thrown at you, you deserve what you get. It's gonna be okay why are you so angry?
uhmm im not ? Im sorry if thats the tone that was being conveyed. T+ Show Spoiler +" o clarify, the tone was meant to convey a nonchalant matter of factness.."
Brexit affects me personally in very little ways. Heck I might even use that 10 year visa I have with the pound dieing for a bit and visit some friends.
Canada ftw.
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On June 25 2016 02:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2016 02:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 25 2016 01:53 Rebs wrote:On June 25 2016 01:03 Mohdoo wrote:On June 25 2016 00:59 JinDesu wrote:On June 25 2016 00:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think Drumpf will benefit at all from this. It doesn't fit into his narratives and people don't actually understand what's going on. Republicans celebrate the idea of independence, but it's not like this actually hurts Clinton in some way. My Drumpf supporting friends are congratulating Britain on their democratic process and hope that we can do the same in November to block Islamic immigrants from entering our country in the future. Yeah, I guess that's my point, really. Drumpf supporters are happy about it, but its not a simple matter of populism. The Bernie crowd is very pro-EU and believes strongly in the unity the EU has been able to build. Bernie types are about workers rights and the wages being kept safe from special interests, which often means protecting themselves from outsourcing of jobs. But this is totally different. And if anything, this entire thing being framed as an economic disaster doesn't exactly do similar movements much good. I salute the UK's bravery for standing up against Merkel. They will persevere. But other governments are gonna look at the numbers, cringe, and do everything they can to prevent the same from happening to them. Honestly the really scary thing is that the UK displayed itself to be a post factual democracy. Which is kinda the tendencies that Drumpf is riding soooo be worried. What is a 'post factual democracy'? One where representatives are no longer bound by facts and can freely lie without consequence. Politicians have been doing that for a while now then. Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:08 cLutZ wrote:
Honestly, I doubt UK leaving will have any real impact. It will just scare people and reveal whether the global economic slowdown is real, or a blip. Cameron is competent thus the next few months of transition will involve a series of boilerplate agreements as most the leaders of other countries are also internationalists.
In the years it takes to sever bonds everything will continue on, and the UK was never on the Euro or other particularly hard to unravel measures. The major blow is to people who want to expand super national entities to harmonize taxes, carbon policy, etc. Cameron is resigning.
I went to sleep after his speech. He is resigning once a new PM can be coalesced around because he knows that his heart wont be in negotiating an exit. What he will be motivated to do in that time is mitigate the economic impact of leaving. I doubt any follow-up to him would be any different.
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Well on the bright side all the criticism that Trump would have a terrible relationship with PM Cameron is no longer a problem anymore.
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On June 25 2016 00:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 23:50 LegalLord wrote:On June 24 2016 23:35 Plansix wrote:
Doubtful. All this brings is instability and that does not play in to the general electorate. Nationalism and global trade work as a talking point, but watching the ramifications of those policies unfold won’t sell the general electorate on them. Trump isn’t trying to win the anti-establishment vote anymore, he has all he can get. Yeah, I agree that Hillary is the most probable outcome, and it's not like Trump and the Republicans are not without issues of their own. My point is that this "omfg must vote against Trump" line of argument is getting tiresome, and Hillary would do better to make the case for herself than simply hope that anti-Trump will carry the day. Of course we need good policies and proposals. I would like to see a larger focus on election finance reform and salary stagnation. But I took that the view that vote should be earned by the candidate during 2000 and 2004 elections and still regret it. And out of those elections my brother got set to two useless wars, lost a few friends and put all of us through hell. I’m not doing that again, even if I am not wild about Clinton.
You supported the wrong candidate if you wanted anything more than some lip service on campaign finance reform. Also if you want to avoid more pointless wars. You picked the biggest supporter of the Iraq war you had to choose from, and the one who is already been a big advocate for sending more soldiers to Afghanistan and keeping more soldiers like your brother in Iraq.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if that's actually what you wanted, you most certainly backed the wrong candidate.
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On June 25 2016 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 00:00 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 23:50 LegalLord wrote:On June 24 2016 23:35 Plansix wrote:
Doubtful. All this brings is instability and that does not play in to the general electorate. Nationalism and global trade work as a talking point, but watching the ramifications of those policies unfold won’t sell the general electorate on them. Drumpf isn’t trying to win the anti-establishment vote anymore, he has all he can get. Yeah, I agree that Hillary is the most probable outcome, and it's not like Drumpf and the Republicans are not without issues of their own. My point is that this "omfg must vote against Drumpf" line of argument is getting tiresome, and Hillary would do better to make the case for herself than simply hope that anti-Drumpf will carry the day. Of course we need good policies and proposals. I would like to see a larger focus on election finance reform and salary stagnation. But I took that the view that vote should be earned by the candidate during 2000 and 2004 elections and still regret it. And out of those elections my brother got set to two useless wars, lost a few friends and put all of us through hell. I’m not doing that again, even if I am not wild about Clinton. You supported the wrong candidate if you wanted anything more than some lip service on campaign finance reform. Also if you want to avoid more pointless wars. You picked the biggest supporter of the Iraq war you had to choose from, and the one who is already been a big advocate for sending more soldiers to Afghanistan and keeping more soldiers like your brother in Iraq. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if that's actually what you wanted, you most certainly backed the wrong candidate.
Its ok, you can get Trump and teach America a lesson. The I told you saw is always worth it.
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On June 25 2016 02:55 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 25 2016 00:00 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 23:50 LegalLord wrote:On June 24 2016 23:35 Plansix wrote:
Doubtful. All this brings is instability and that does not play in to the general electorate. Nationalism and global trade work as a talking point, but watching the ramifications of those policies unfold won’t sell the general electorate on them. Drumpf isn’t trying to win the anti-establishment vote anymore, he has all he can get. Yeah, I agree that Hillary is the most probable outcome, and it's not like Drumpf and the Republicans are not without issues of their own. My point is that this "omfg must vote against Drumpf" line of argument is getting tiresome, and Hillary would do better to make the case for herself than simply hope that anti-Drumpf will carry the day. Of course we need good policies and proposals. I would like to see a larger focus on election finance reform and salary stagnation. But I took that the view that vote should be earned by the candidate during 2000 and 2004 elections and still regret it. And out of those elections my brother got set to two useless wars, lost a few friends and put all of us through hell. I’m not doing that again, even if I am not wild about Clinton. You supported the wrong candidate if you wanted anything more than some lip service on campaign finance reform. Also if you want to avoid more pointless wars. You picked the biggest supporter of the Iraq war you had to choose from, and the one who is already been a big advocate for sending more soldiers to Afghanistan and keeping more soldiers like your brother in Iraq. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if that's actually what you wanted, you most certainly backed the wrong candidate. Its ok, you can get Trump and teach America a lesson. The I told you saw is always worth it.
If Trump wins, Hillary has no one to blame but herself and her supporters. Trying to put it on others is silly.
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On June 25 2016 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 00:00 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 23:50 LegalLord wrote:On June 24 2016 23:35 Plansix wrote:
Doubtful. All this brings is instability and that does not play in to the general electorate. Nationalism and global trade work as a talking point, but watching the ramifications of those policies unfold won’t sell the general electorate on them. Trump isn’t trying to win the anti-establishment vote anymore, he has all he can get. Yeah, I agree that Hillary is the most probable outcome, and it's not like Trump and the Republicans are not without issues of their own. My point is that this "omfg must vote against Trump" line of argument is getting tiresome, and Hillary would do better to make the case for herself than simply hope that anti-Trump will carry the day. Of course we need good policies and proposals. I would like to see a larger focus on election finance reform and salary stagnation. But I took that the view that vote should be earned by the candidate during 2000 and 2004 elections and still regret it. And out of those elections my brother got set to two useless wars, lost a few friends and put all of us through hell. I’m not doing that again, even if I am not wild about Clinton. You supported the wrong candidate if you wanted anything more than some lip service on campaign finance reform. Also if you want to avoid more pointless wars. You picked the biggest supporter of the Iraq war you had to choose from, and the one who is already been a big advocate for sending more soldiers to Afghanistan and keeping more soldiers like your brother in Iraq. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if that's actually what you wanted, you most certainly backed the wrong candidate.
Its great that you ended that with, “not to be a jerk,” because that really shows you were committed to it.
And your candidate is a curmudgeonly old man who only stayed in office because he was voted in by a tiny state of liberals that are happy to vote in someone who doesn’t accomplish anything in the senate worth writing home about. So yeah, your boy didn’t impress me in the least when it comes to getting things done. Because after this election the moderate democrats and Republican party will still exist, no matter much wishing Bernie did.
So yeah, I voted for the person I was giving me way less lip service.
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I think both parties will have ceased to exist as we know it after this election. It's been a real game-changer for both of them.
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Uhh, what? The two parties will not cease to exist....
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Also an interesting thing about the immediate collapse is how much of it is based on expectations that collapse will occur because such a large % of the "elites" were against it and said, "Everything will collapse". Thus, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Just an interesting thought.
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EPT
