US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3485
Forum Index > Closed |
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
puerk
Germany855 Posts
| ||
kwizach
3658 Posts
| ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:28 kwizach wrote: A pretty interesting poll, showing Hillary has the most enthusiastic voters in the Democratic primary, and Trump has the most enthusiastic voters in the Republican primary: link. is the sandernista movement reflecting the structure of the che t-shirt movement? | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:18 farvacola wrote: mossad stronk FBI has accessed San Bernardino shooter’s phone without Apple’s help | ||
SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:27 puerk wrote: which calculators give me the lie algebra to a given group? i know you're making a joke, but this misses the mark because the topic of conversation is which maths are necessary for everyone to learn lie algebra is exactly the stuff some people are arguing shouldnt ever be considered necessary curriculum | ||
Acrofales
Spain17852 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:28 kwizach wrote: A pretty interesting poll, showing Hillary has the most enthusiastic voters in the Democratic primary, and Trump has the most enthusiastic voters in the Republican primary: link. Talking about shoddy statistics. Here's another leading reason. You can do all the significance testing you like, but if your data comes from meaningless nonsense, you just end up with statistically significant nonsense. There is so much wrong with that poll (or at least with the conclusions they are trying to draw from it)... | ||
cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:27 puerk wrote: which calculators give me the lie algebra to a given group? I'm pretty sure the TI-1000, special liquid metal edition, can do that. | ||
puerk
Germany855 Posts
i think it is important (and this is where algebra comes into play) to teach that math is about consistency, not about some one telling you how and what to do. Set up a system of axioms, test them, and get what can be inferred from it. Set up other sets of axioms and show how they are inconsistent and explain that way why "not everything goes" but creativity and problem solving is still important, and not everything is settled. for me a big issue with maths education seems to be that students get tought old methods and consider it a rigid and uninteresting chore to get through, with very little individuality when it is one of the most expressive sciences (you cant decide electrons to have a 2/3 charge, or 2i+sqrt(Pi) charge, as you basically observe nature) but in math you can make up your rules, if they work, and discover the implications of those rules.... students should get to learn those aspects, as it will teach critical thinking, provide a more motivating and identifiable approach to maths and it is a good introduction to the advanced concepts needed in IT, Big Data, Knowledge Discovery, Science and Statistics in general and even Logic and Philosophy aswell | ||
m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:18 farvacola wrote: FBI has accessed San Bernardino shooter’s phone without Apple’s help As if that wasn't clear right from the start. It was never about unlocking that phone. It was about getting a backdoor into apple phones. Which they still have not - i bet they just have found a way to brute force their way into the phone. Which is completely fine. What they wanted from Apple was entirely different though. The stunning move averts a courtroom showdown pitting Apple and privacy interests against the government and security concerns that many in the tech community had warned might set dangerous precedents. That's the important bit. They knew they wouldn't get it. If that courtroom would've ruled in favor of Apple (and that's not unlikely considering the stunt they tried was unconstitutional in the first place), they would've lost the ability to exert force/pressure on tech companies forever. | ||
Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:21 cLutZ wrote: Yes, and Microsoft Word and the internet allows you to have perfect spelling and perfect recall of all of geography and any historical event you are being tested on. Yet, those classes still exist. Yes, but we should rethink what we're teaching. You don't want students to be able to spell a specific word or remember the date of something that they can easily google despite this being a possible outcome. For geography and historical events you're teaching that student culture and hopefully developing their understanding of perspectives that he or she is not typically exposed to. Most people keep citing that algebra isn't useful, but it teaches people reasoning so why not teach that instead? | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States43822 Posts
On March 29 2016 07:07 Krikkitone wrote: Why should you teach kids stuff that doesn't matter...that is incredibly stupid. If humans reached the age of adulthood at 180 instead of 18 and had IQ equivalents of 1000 instead of 100, then it might be worthwhile teaching them something pointless for the sake of discipline. There is plenty of stuff that "matters" that will not excite them for teaching discipline. Teach them rhetoric and propaganda, teach them statistics and scientific method, etc. Teach them algebra if the only jobs that exist are STEM jobs... or if they want those jobs. If you want them to think critically, don't teach them algebra with critical thinking as a side effect, teach them critical thinking. If you need something to teach them critical thinking with, teach it to them with statistics and rhetoric something all members of a modern society will deal with. "What matters" is subjective. Learning the foundational skills for a variety of subjects allows students to delve deeper in the subjects that resonate the most with them (i.e., as they graduate high school/ decide on a job or college major). Learning a little bit of everything makes you a well-rounded individual. On March 29 2016 07:07 Krikkitone wrote: Algebra is not required for thinking critically about numbers. And I would disagree that this is 'trying to make better workdrones'. Algebra is likely only to be used as part of your work droning, unless you do math for fun. Other things are far more likely to be of universal use. Of course the bigger problem is not that algebra is not the ideal ninth grade math class in preparing well rounded citizens. The bigger problem is the students are failing algebra, because they didn't get proper preparation in arithmetic earlier (they would fail a ninth grade statistics course as well... at least if it was any good) The problem isn't really that students are failing ninth grade algebra, its that they are "passing" third, fourth, fifth, etc. grade math while actually failing it. I agree with you that algebra is not required for critical thinking in all cases regarding numbers, but there's certainly plenty of overlap (if algebra is taught correctly)! I also agree with you that pushing students through grades when they don't have a solid understanding of prerequisite math knowledge is a huge issue. On March 29 2016 07:20 cLutZ wrote: Ha. The think that gets me is that all the "thinkers" who want to change math never seem to find fault with comparatively more "useless" parts of curriculum like spelling tests or drawing a family tree of the Greek Pantheon. It seems to me that there are just a lot of people who write these things that just sucked at math, so obviously it must be bad! Yeah, Andrew Hacker would be a lot more interesting and credible in education/ math education if he had any relevant degrees or research to speak of. He doesn't. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
| ||
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:36 cLutZ wrote: I'm pretty sure the TI-1000, special liquid metal edition, can do that. the reason the ti 83 costs so much? R&D budget | ||
cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:52 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Yes, but we should rethink what we're teaching. You don't want students to be able to spell a specific word or remember the date of something that they can easily google despite this being a possible outcome. For geography and historical events you're teaching that student culture and hopefully developing their understanding of perspectives that he or she is not typically exposed to. Most people keep citing that algebra isn't useful, but it teaches people reasoning so why not teach that instead? Because: 1) Its not simply reasoning, its an entirely different (important) mental muscle to develop; 2) Teachers don't know how to teach reasoning without indoctrinating (they certainly can't teach History or Literature without trying to do that); and 3) If its anything like algebra kids will struggle and fail anyways (after all, that is the freaking point!). | ||
ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On March 29 2016 09:45 puerk wrote: for me a big issue with maths education seems to be that students get tought old methods and consider it a rigid and uninteresting chore to get through, with very little individuality when it is one of the most expressive sciences (you cant decide electrons to have a 2/3 charge, or 2i+sqrt(Pi) charge, as you basically observe nature) but in math you can make up your rules, if they work, and discover the implications of those rules.... Unfortunately learning math is like learning a new language. There's boring syntax you have to learn before you can write poetry. Not sure if there's any way around that. | ||
puerk
Germany855 Posts
On March 29 2016 10:01 ZeaL. wrote: Unfortunately learning math is like learning a new language. There's boring syntax you have to learn before you can write poetry. Not sure if there's any way around that. i agree, just bring in variables and some concept of a function of a variable earlier, when the mind is still more flexible... its so hard to unlearn stuff from lower school classes to fix the "i expect a number in my problem what to do with this funky g(h(x)) thingy?"-attitude | ||
Atreides
United States2393 Posts
If you aren't going to, then just don't pretend graduating means anything at all and judge students based on standardized test scores or something else. Edit: I mean we are talking 9th grade algebra here. Good maths students usually take 3 more years of further math while in high school. The standards are pretty low. On the one hand people campaign about how the us has fallen behind in student performance on standardized tests etc etc on the other hand they want to remove algebra as a primary education requirement? My head hurts. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States43822 Posts
On March 29 2016 07:33 Mohdoo wrote: Krikkitone, you should be asking how we can teach our children more, not less. The immense societal impacts of strong educational standards is well documented. A population that is well educated benefits in so many ways, regardless of if some of the skills go unused. The process of learning, in itself, is valuable to the human brain. The same is also true for learning a variety of topics. It's really just not asking that much for someone to come out of highschool with a strong understanding of algebra. Very true ![]() On March 29 2016 08:19 Atreides wrote: On the subject of teaching math I 100% agree with whoever said the problem isn't high school math at all. Most high school teachers have math degrees and an appreciation for math and try to pass that on. The problem is that many elementary school teachers hate math, think it doesn't make sense, and pass that on. I had to TA a "mathematics for elementary school teachers" class for a semester and it scared the hell out of me. Were doomed in that regard. I also find the notion of switching to statistics humorous. While the argument can definitely be made that it's more relevant. You would get people screaming bloody murder and vastly higher failure rates trying to teach 9th grade statistics. Man dealing with x and y is the first exposure to arbitrary unknowns. How can you think that people who can't handle that will deal with the sets and operations in basic statistics. The biggest issue with elementary education is that elementary school teachers have the difficult task of teaching all subjects and the impossible task of being passionate about every single one of them. Even if the elementary school teachers can compute (and even explain!) basic math problems, analyze basic history events, and remember all the rules of grammar and writing and reading comprehension, those teachers (like everyone else) will naturally favor some subjects over the others, and a teacher's enthusiasm (or lack thereof) can very well be contagious and affect students. If a teacher hates teaching math or thinks it's pointless- regardless of whether or not she can do it- she's going to be less effective in the long run than a capable teacher who loves math. On March 29 2016 08:21 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: i wouldn't generalize you may be right to some degree, but it's hard to tell how much it contributes without more quantitative data on elementary school math instruction a lot of the time, math-phobia is passed on directly from parents who don't respect math Definitely also true. Every back-to-school night, when parents swamp me with a ton of crazy questions and comments, there are always a few who say dismissive things like "I wasn't good at math and my husband/ wife wasn't good at math, so I don't expect my child to like math or be good at math... my child just isn't a math person" and I'll basically say (the politically correct and tactful version of) "No. You don't get to assume your kid is going to fail my class even before they start. What motivation will they have to succeed if their parents tell them it's acceptable to fail or not care? What drive will they have to continue the amazing conversations and hard work that I see in my classes if they go home to an environment that doesn't foster a love of learning and inquiry? I'm sorry, but I don't accept that your child "just isn't a math person"; I wouldn't be much of a math educator if I did." | ||
Mohdoo
United States15401 Posts
On March 29 2016 08:19 Atreides wrote: On the subject of teaching math I 100% agree with whoever said the problem isn't high school math at all. Most high school teachers have math degrees and an appreciation for math and try to pass that on. The problem is that many elementary school teachers hate math, think it doesn't make sense, and pass that on. I think people lose track of how utterly terrible elementary school teachers education is. They seriously know nothing. They are essentially babysitters who also convey some ideas. edit: Not to say they need to be able to prove diff eq solutions. I've just met some teachers whose understanding of math essentially ends with the most advanced thing they teach their students. | ||
SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
but my parents took school district into big account every time for the numerous times we moved (i went to 4 different elementary schools, 2 in michigan, 2 in california) i know its an anecdote but its not like im exactly arguing against a well-cited point EDIT: ok that was kind of a lie my 2nd grade teacher was pretty stupid and worthless (or maybe i just had personal beef for reasons...) | ||
| ||