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On March 29 2016 07:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 29 2016 07:06 Plansix wrote:On March 29 2016 07:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 29 2016 07:00 Plansix wrote:On March 29 2016 06:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 29 2016 06:53 Plansix wrote:On March 29 2016 06:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 29 2016 06:37 Mohdoo wrote:On March 29 2016 06:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
He isn't setting it in NY he's asking Hillary to give him a good reason it shouldn't be. Because there isn't one (the best you could come up with is "she should get something for debating in the state she represented") it does have the effect of tying her hands, but that's something different than him setting the location himself. If Bernie's campaign wants the debate in NY, it benefits Bernie. If something benefits Bernie, it does not benefit Clinton. That's the end of it, really. It's so stupid to expect her to go along with it. How about what benefits the American people/ voters of New York? Or has Hillary&co just completely left that out of the calculation? If not NY where and why? Not to mention all this is ignoring Hillary herself saying candidates like herself should be willing to debate completely dismissing the argument being pushed by her camp now. Why NY and not MA? I want the debate in my state. Fuck NY, its stupid and the people there don't care. I want it here for reasons. There are 50 states. Maybe Sanders should provide a more compelling reason NY than "why not?" And lets cut through the bullshit, its because of the upcoming primary that is critical to him standing a chance. There is no reason for Clinton to accept beyond "I am really dumb and don't understand how viewership works." Sanders can have his debate as soon as he is a political grown up and is willing to negotiate for it. Obviously all of the debates have been in upcoming states so bringing up MA is just stupid. What exactly is he supposed to negotiate away in exchange for her debating in the state she represented? Because that is what you do when you want something from someone. You ask "how can I have this thing I want?" and then they tell you what you need to give them for it. And why is MA stupid. The voters here matter for the general election. Are we to be ignored until we are of value? Is this how Sander's deals with us? We are only get his attention when we have something to offer. You see. I can make indignant, disingenuous arguments too. Of course I know why MA isn't on the docket. Your beef wouldn't be with Sanders, I'm sure he'd have a debate in MA and every other state too, your beef would be with Hillary. I'm asking what is Sanders supposed to give her? Besides ask why she doesn't want to debate in NY? Clinton said they want a promise from him to tone down his attack ads for the next few states. To make them be less negative. That is what she wants. What ads, and what tone? I don't know dude. That is the quote coming out of Clinton's camp on the subject and I have zero desire to dig up a bunch of ads for your approval if they are negative. Clearly if Sanders wants that debate, his camp will need to dig into it and find out what ads Clinton thinks are attack ads.
I think just running this on loop would be enough myself.
https://twitter.com/PittsBern/status/714535203125985281
She's going to lose this fight that she shouldn't have even picked and there will be a debate. She won't be able to tell Trump to "tone it down" so this should be good practice considering by any and all accounts Bernie has been by far the least negative viable campaign in modern presidential politics.
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On March 29 2016 07:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 06:00 cLutZ wrote:Sometimes, you forget how insane people really are: Kids are failing, so lets lower standards!NEW YORK (AP) — Who needs algebra?
That question muttered by many a frustrated student over the years has become a vigorous debate among American educators, sparked by a provocative new book that argues required algebra has become an unnecessary stumbling block that forces millions to drop out of high school or college.
"One out of 5 young Americans does not graduate from high school. This is one of the worst records in the developed world. Why? The chief academic reason is they failed ninth-grade algebra," said political scientist Andrew Hacker, author of "The Math Myth and Other STEM Delusions."
Hacker, a professor emeritus at Queens College, argues that, at most, only 5 percent of jobs make use of algebra and other advanced math courses. He favors a curriculum that focuses more on statistics and basic numbers sense and less on (y - 3)2 = 4y - 12.
"Will algebra help you understand the federal budget?" he asked.
Many U.S. educators, including the architects of the Common Core standards, disagree, saying math just needs to be taught more effectively. It's fine for students to have quantitative skills, they say, but algebra is important, too.
"Every study I've ever seen of workers in whole bunches of fields shows that you have to understand formulas, you have to understand relationships," said Philip Uri Treisman, a professor of mathematics and of public affairs at the University of Texas. "Algebra is the tool for consolidating your knowledge of arithmetic."
Bill McCallum, a professor at the University of Arizona who played a lead role in developing the Common Core standards for math, said he would oppose any division of K-12 students into an algebra track and a non-algebra track.
"You might say only a certain percentage of kids will go on to use algebra, but we don't know which kids those are," he said.
In New York City, home to the nation's largest public school system with 1.1 million pupils, just 52 percent of the students who took last year's statewide Regents test in Algebra I passed, mirroring statistics elsewhere in the country.
Rather than scaling back on algebra, New York City educators have announced an "Algebra for All" initiative that aims to keep students on track by providing specialized math teachers in fifth grade, before algebra is introduced.
"We believe in high standards," said Carol Mosesson-Teig, director of mathematics for the city Department of Education. "And we believe that the best way to serve the students is to strengthen the instruction."
Eighteen-year-old Isaiah Aristy took the algebra Regents test twice and failed it both times.
Aristy, now a freshman at the Borough of Manhattan Community College who is hoping for a career in law enforcement, said he was good at math until he hit algebra.
"When it came to x and y and graphing, that's when I started dropping, and it made me feel low," he said. "But we don't need to learn what x and y is. When in life are we going to write on paper, 'X and y needs to be this?'"
Like millions of community college students across the U.S., Aristy must pass a remedial math class with no college credit, and then pass at least one college-level math class, if he wants to get an associate's degree.
But Aristy isn't just repeating Algebra I again. BMCC is one of about 50 community colleges in 14 state that offer an alternative track called Quantway, developed by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, that seeks to develop quantitative literacy.
"It includes some basic algebra concepts, but you don't learn how to factor polynomials or solve complex equations," said math department Chairman Fred Peskoff.
Project director Karon Klipple said the foundation devised Quantway and a statistics track called Statway in 2011 because of the sheer numbers of students dropping out of community college due to algebra. Sixty to 80 percent of community college students nationwide test into remedial math, and most don't pass it, she said.
"This is where their hopes and aspirations go to die," Klipple said. "They're in college to try to make a better life for themselves, and they're stopped by mathematics." I've read a lot of Andrew Hacker and his views on mathematics education, and he's just basically 30 years behind our current understanding of math education. Focusing on quantitative reasoning instead of only content is something we've been explicitly focusing more and more on over the past three decades. Heck, even the ACT and SAT have that part right! So he's not wrong, but his ideas aren't radical or revolutionary either. Rumor has it he's also working on a new gaming console called the SNES...
Ha. The think that gets me is that all the "thinkers" who want to change math never seem to find fault with comparatively more "useless" parts of curriculum like spelling tests or drawing a family tree of the Greek Pantheon. It seems to me that there are just a lot of people who write these things that just sucked at math, so obviously it must be bad!
On March 29 2016 07:07 Krikkitone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 06:23 Mohdoo wrote:
If you only teach kids "what matters" and "what excites them", they will never learn discipline. No matter what you do for a living, there is stuff that you hate and stuff you don't enjoy at all. You still need to get it done. Kids SHOULD be learning "useless" stuff and becoming well rounded. If nothing else, if only for the experience of learning something you don't care about. Why should you teach kids stuff that doesn't matter...that is incredibly stupid. If humans reached the age of adulthood at 180 instead of 18 and had IQ equivalents of 1000 instead of 100, then it might be worthwhile teaching them something pointless for the sake of discipline. There is plenty of stuff that "matters" that will not excite them for teaching discipline. Teach them rhetoric and propaganda, teach them statistics and scientific method, etc. Teach them algebra if the only jobs that exist are STEM jobs... or if they want those jobs. If you want them to think critically, don't teach them algebra with critical thinking as a side effect, teach them critical thinking. If you need something to teach them critical thinking with, teach it to them with statistics and rhetoric something all members of a modern society will deal with.
Then whats the point of teaching geography, history, and music? Algebra is more important to a plumber than knowing states and capitals. Almost all of what you learn is "worthless" whence, the things that are "hard" are the things that are actually important. Overcoming the hard parts of your education expands your ability to think, and when people fail the hard stuff it shows society the limitations of that person so they don't hire a kid who fails Spanish 2 as a translator, or don't let a kid who failed Linear Algebra design a bridge.
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On March 29 2016 07:20 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 07:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 29 2016 06:00 cLutZ wrote:Sometimes, you forget how insane people really are: Kids are failing, so lets lower standards!NEW YORK (AP) — Who needs algebra?
That question muttered by many a frustrated student over the years has become a vigorous debate among American educators, sparked by a provocative new book that argues required algebra has become an unnecessary stumbling block that forces millions to drop out of high school or college.
"One out of 5 young Americans does not graduate from high school. This is one of the worst records in the developed world. Why? The chief academic reason is they failed ninth-grade algebra," said political scientist Andrew Hacker, author of "The Math Myth and Other STEM Delusions."
Hacker, a professor emeritus at Queens College, argues that, at most, only 5 percent of jobs make use of algebra and other advanced math courses. He favors a curriculum that focuses more on statistics and basic numbers sense and less on (y - 3)2 = 4y - 12.
"Will algebra help you understand the federal budget?" he asked.
Many U.S. educators, including the architects of the Common Core standards, disagree, saying math just needs to be taught more effectively. It's fine for students to have quantitative skills, they say, but algebra is important, too.
"Every study I've ever seen of workers in whole bunches of fields shows that you have to understand formulas, you have to understand relationships," said Philip Uri Treisman, a professor of mathematics and of public affairs at the University of Texas. "Algebra is the tool for consolidating your knowledge of arithmetic."
Bill McCallum, a professor at the University of Arizona who played a lead role in developing the Common Core standards for math, said he would oppose any division of K-12 students into an algebra track and a non-algebra track.
"You might say only a certain percentage of kids will go on to use algebra, but we don't know which kids those are," he said.
In New York City, home to the nation's largest public school system with 1.1 million pupils, just 52 percent of the students who took last year's statewide Regents test in Algebra I passed, mirroring statistics elsewhere in the country.
Rather than scaling back on algebra, New York City educators have announced an "Algebra for All" initiative that aims to keep students on track by providing specialized math teachers in fifth grade, before algebra is introduced.
"We believe in high standards," said Carol Mosesson-Teig, director of mathematics for the city Department of Education. "And we believe that the best way to serve the students is to strengthen the instruction."
Eighteen-year-old Isaiah Aristy took the algebra Regents test twice and failed it both times.
Aristy, now a freshman at the Borough of Manhattan Community College who is hoping for a career in law enforcement, said he was good at math until he hit algebra.
"When it came to x and y and graphing, that's when I started dropping, and it made me feel low," he said. "But we don't need to learn what x and y is. When in life are we going to write on paper, 'X and y needs to be this?'"
Like millions of community college students across the U.S., Aristy must pass a remedial math class with no college credit, and then pass at least one college-level math class, if he wants to get an associate's degree.
But Aristy isn't just repeating Algebra I again. BMCC is one of about 50 community colleges in 14 state that offer an alternative track called Quantway, developed by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, that seeks to develop quantitative literacy.
"It includes some basic algebra concepts, but you don't learn how to factor polynomials or solve complex equations," said math department Chairman Fred Peskoff.
Project director Karon Klipple said the foundation devised Quantway and a statistics track called Statway in 2011 because of the sheer numbers of students dropping out of community college due to algebra. Sixty to 80 percent of community college students nationwide test into remedial math, and most don't pass it, she said.
"This is where their hopes and aspirations go to die," Klipple said. "They're in college to try to make a better life for themselves, and they're stopped by mathematics." I've read a lot of Andrew Hacker and his views on mathematics education, and he's just basically 30 years behind our current understanding of math education. Focusing on quantitative reasoning instead of only content is something we've been explicitly focusing more and more on over the past three decades. Heck, even the ACT and SAT have that part right! So he's not wrong, but his ideas aren't radical or revolutionary either. Rumor has it he's also working on a new gaming console called the SNES... Ha. The think that gets me is that all the "thinkers" who want to change math never seem to find fault with comparatively more "useless" parts of curriculum like spelling tests or drawing a family tree of the Greek Pantheon. It seems to me that there are just a lot of people who write these things that just sucked at math, so obviously it must be bad! Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 07:07 Krikkitone wrote:On March 29 2016 06:23 Mohdoo wrote:
If you only teach kids "what matters" and "what excites them", they will never learn discipline. No matter what you do for a living, there is stuff that you hate and stuff you don't enjoy at all. You still need to get it done. Kids SHOULD be learning "useless" stuff and becoming well rounded. If nothing else, if only for the experience of learning something you don't care about. Why should you teach kids stuff that doesn't matter...that is incredibly stupid. If humans reached the age of adulthood at 180 instead of 18 and had IQ equivalents of 1000 instead of 100, then it might be worthwhile teaching them something pointless for the sake of discipline. There is plenty of stuff that "matters" that will not excite them for teaching discipline. Teach them rhetoric and propaganda, teach them statistics and scientific method, etc. Teach them algebra if the only jobs that exist are STEM jobs... or if they want those jobs. If you want them to think critically, don't teach them algebra with critical thinking as a side effect, teach them critical thinking. If you need something to teach them critical thinking with, teach it to them with statistics and rhetoric something all members of a modern society will deal with. Then whats the point of teaching geography, history, and music? Algebra is more important to a plumber than knowing states and capitals. Almost all of what you learn is "worthless" whence, the things that are "hard" are the things that are actually important. Overcoming the hard parts of your education expands your ability to think, and when people fail the hard stuff it shows society the limitations of that person so they don't hire a kid who fails Spanish 2 as a translator, or don't let a kid who failed Linear Algebra design a bridge.
Geography, History, Music, etc... is cultural education. Literally an attempt to bond you with the society they expect you to be in. Little things like being able to appreciate the creations of other people, learning where you are in the world, the relevance of that location, and where you stand in the greater whole of society both from a geographic, temporal, and sociological context. All are much more important and relevant than if you know how to do what calculators and analysts can do for you.
A much better education system would be baseline tracks that people can be opted into and out of based on performance reviews--but parents would freak out the moment they realize their kid is being put in the plumbers track as opposed to the SW engineer track.
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Krikkitone, you should be asking how we can teach our children more, not less. The immense societal impacts of strong educational standards is well documented. A population that is well educated benefits in so many ways, regardless of if some of the skills go unused. The process of learning, in itself, is valuable to the human brain. The same is also true for learning a variety of topics. It's really just not asking that much for someone to come out of highschool with a strong understanding of algebra.
Edit: Also worth noting that I almost entirely failed high school and every grade before that. Fast forward a bit and I'm a chemical engineer with MS. I hated math until I was 19 for some reason. Letting the immature, under developed minds of the young determine their education would be a terrible idea. If I was not put on a "one size fits all" track of education, I would have been way behind when I finally got my act together. High school students are children. It's important not to lose track of that.
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So I'm reading something about Bernie winning WA by 72% but many of the delegates refusing to vote for him despite that? Is this a common thing?
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On March 29 2016 07:33 Mohdoo wrote:
Krikkitone, you should be asking how we can teach our children more, not less. The immense societal impacts of strong educational standards is well documented. A population that is well educated benefits in so many ways, regardless of if some of the skills go unused. The process of learning, in itself, is valuable to the human brain. The same is also true for learning a variety of topics. It's really just not asking that much for someone to come out of highschool with a strong understanding of algebra.
Edit: Also worth noting that I almost entirely failed high school and every grade before that. Fast forward a bit and I'm a chemical engineer with MS. I hated math until I was 19 for some reason. Letting the immature, under developed minds of the young determine their education would be a terrible idea. If I was not put on a "one size fits all" track of education, I would have been way behind when I finally got my act together. High school students are children. It's important not to lose track of that.
Lets be honest, they don't really stop acting like children until after their first bachelors.
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https://www.change.org/p/quicken-loans-arena-allow-open-carry-of-firearms-at-the-quicken-loans-arena-during-the-rnc-convention-in-july-2
SUMMARY: In July of 2016, the GOP will host its convention at the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland, Ohio. Though Ohio is an open carry state, which allows for the open carry of guns, the hosting venue—the Quicken Loans Arena—strictly forbids the carry of firearms on their premises.
According to the policy on their website, "firearms and other weapons of any kind are strictly forbidden on the premises of Quicken Loans Arena."
This is a direct affront to the Second Amendment and puts all attendees at risk. As the National Rifle Association has made clear, "gun-free zones" such as the Quicken Loans Arena are "the worst and most dangerous of all lies." The NRA, our leading defender of gun rights, has also correctly pointed out that "gun free zones... tell every insane killer in America... (the) safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk." (March 4, 2016 and Dec. 21, 2012)
Cleveland, Ohio is consistently ranked as one of the top ten most dangerous cities in America. By forcing attendees to leave their firearms at home, the RNC and Quicken Loans Arena are putting tens of thousands of people at risk both inside and outside of the convention site.
This doesn't even begin to factor in the possibility of an ISIS terrorist attack on the arena during the convention. Without the right to protect themselves, those at the Quicken Loans Arena will be sitting ducks, utterly helpless against evil-doers, criminals or others who wish to threaten the American way of life.
All three remaining Republican candidates have spoken out on the issue and are unified in their opposition to Barack HUSSEIN Obama's "gun-free zones."
Donald Trump said "I will get rid of gun-free zones on schools—you have—and on military bases on my first day. It gets signed my first day...you know what a gun-free zone is to a sicko? That's bait." (Jan. 8. 2016)
Ted Cruz has accurately pointed out "shooting after shooting after shooting happens in so called gun-free zones." He continued, "look, if you're a lunatic ain't nothing better then having a bunch of targets you know that are going to be unarmed." (Dec. 4, 2015)
And Ohio Governor John Kasich has been a leader in this movement to eliminate deadly "gun-free zones" starting with his brave decision to fight the Democrats and end "gun-free zones" at National Guard facilities in Ohio. (Dec. 18, 2015)
We are all too familiar with the mass carnage that can occur when citizens are denied their basic God-given rights to carry handguns or assault weapons in public. EVERY AMERICAN HAS THE RIGHT TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THEIR FAMILY. With this irresponsible and hypocritical act of selecting a "gun-free zone" for the convention, the RNC has placed its members, delegates, candidates and all US citizens in grave danger.
We must take a stand. We cannot allow the national nominating convention of the party of Lincoln and Reagan to be hijacked by weakness and political correctness. The policies of the Quicken Loans Arena do not supersede the rights given to us by our Creator in the U.S. Constitution.
THEREFORE, WE ARE CALLING TODAY FOR THE FOLLOWING FIVE POINTS OF ACTION:
1. From the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland: A suspension of their policy preventing the open carry of firearms on the premises of the arena from July 18-21, 2016 to coincide with the Republican National Convention.
2. From the National Rifle Association: An immediate condemnation of the egregious affront to the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution constituted by the "gun-free zone" loophole to the state law.
3. From Ohio Governor John Kasich: A concerted effort to use his executive authority to override the "gun-free zone" loophole being exploited by the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland, Ohio.
4. From Reince Priebus and the Republican National Committee: An explanation of how a venue so unfriendly to Second Amendment rights was chosen for the Republican Convention. Further, we demand a contingency plan to relocate the convention to another location should the Quicken Loans Arena refuse to honor the constitutional rights of the RNC guests to open carry firearms during the convention.
5. From all Republican candidates for President: You have been brave in raising awareness about the immense dangers posed by "gun-free zones." In order to ensure the safety of your supporters, delegates and all attendees at the convention in July, you must call upon the RNC to rectify this affront to our Second Amendment freedoms and insist upon a suspension of the Quicken Loans Arena's unconstitutional "gun-free zone" loophole. Every American is endowed with a God-given Constitutional right to carry a gun wherever and whenever they please.
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no way the petition was actually written by a guns rights activist lol
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yeah i definitely signed the petition
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so did my dad. id bet at least 75% of the signatures are people who dont really have the RNC's best interest in mind rofl
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Some guns there could really help to make America great again. Well... maybe not great, but at least a bit better.
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On the subject of teaching math I 100% agree with whoever said the problem isn't high school math at all. Most high school teachers have math degrees and an appreciation for math and try to pass that on. The problem is that many elementary school teachers hate math, think it doesn't make sense, and pass that on.
I had to TA a "mathematics for elementary school teachers" class for a semester and it scared the hell out of me. Were doomed in that regard.
I also find the notion of switching to statistics humorous. While the argument can definitely be made that it's more relevant. You would get people screaming bloody murder and vastly higher failure rates trying to teach 9th grade statistics.
Man dealing with x and y is the first exposure to arbitrary unknowns. How can you think that people who can't handle that will deal with the sets and operations in basic statistics.
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On March 29 2016 08:19 Atreides wrote:
On the subject of teaching math I 100% agree with whoever said the problem isn't high school math at all. Most high school have math degrees and an appreciation for math and try to pass that on. The problem is that many elementary school teachers hate math, think it doesn't make sense, and pass that on.
I had to TA a "mathematics for elementary school teachers" class for a semester and it scared the hell out of me. Were doomed in that regard.
i wouldn't generalize
you may be right to some degree, but it's hard to tell how much it contributes without more quantitative data on elementary school math instruction
a lot of the time, math-phobia is passed on directly from parents who don't respect math
etc
btw liquiddota posting spree go dota
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How can anyone think that statistics can be taught without algebra? What are they going to spend the whole year on, mean/mode/std dev? Without some level of algebra they'll never get past basic shit like t-tests. Not to mention that a decent amount of stats relies on calculus.
Algebra is such a fundamental aspect of anything quantitative it would be crazy to not teach it. The problem is most people think it's a bunch of useless letters and numbers and never learn enough to apply it at a meaningful level... and that too many people are taught algebra when they're unable to figure out things like fractions.
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On March 29 2016 09:10 ZeaL. wrote:
How can anyone think that statistics can be taught without algebra? What are they going to spend the whole year on, mean/mode/std dev? Without some level of algebra they'll never get past basic shit like t-tests. Not to mention that a decent amount of stats relies on calculus.
Algebra is such a fundamental aspect of anything quantitative it would be crazy to not teach it. The problem is most people think it's a bunch of useless letters and numbers and never learn enough to apply it at a meaningful level... and that too many people are taught algebra when they're unable to figure out things like fractions.
Because a calculator allows you to skip any algebra you might encounter.
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The Justice Department is abandoning its bid to force Apple to help it unlock the iPhone used by one of the shooters in the San Bernardino terrorist attack because investigators have found a way in without the tech giant’s assistance, prosecutors wrote in a court filing Monday.
In a three-sentence filing, prosecutors wrote they had “now successfully accessed the data” stored on Syed Rizwan Farook’s iPhone, and they consequently no longer needed Apple’s court-ordered help getting in. The stunning move averts a courtroom showdown pitting Apple and privacy interests against the government and security concerns that many in the tech community had warned might set dangerous precedents.
It is unclear how, precisely, investigators got into the phone, or what FBI agents learned about the San Bernardino plot from the materials they were able to review. On the eve of a hearing in the case last week, the FBI had signaled it might have found a way into Farook’s device, writing in a court filing that “an outside party demonstrated to the FBI a possible method.” But government officials said they wanted to test that method further before employing it in Farook’s case, and they did not offer details about who proposed it or how it would work.
The Justice Department declined to comment on Monday. Apple said it was still formulating a response to the news and had no immediate comment.
The government will now be left to decide whether it will outline the method to Apple in keeping with a little-known process in which federal officials are supposed to consider disclosing security vulnerabilities they find.
Michael Daniel, special assistant to the president and cybersecurity coordinator, wrote in a White House blog post published in April 2014, that “disclosing vulnerabilities usually makes sense,” given how much people rely on the Internet and connected devices.
“But there are legitimate pros and cons to the decision to disclose, and the trade-offs between prompt disclosure and withholding knowledge of some vulnerabilities for a limited time can have significant consequences,” Daniel wrote. “Disclosing a vulnerability can mean that we forego an opportunity to collect crucial intelligence that could thwart a terrorist attack stop the theft of our nation’s intellectual property, or even discover more dangerous vulnerabilities that are being used by hackers or other adversaries to exploit our networks.”
FBI has accessed San Bernardino shooter’s phone without Apple’s help
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On March 29 2016 09:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 09:10 ZeaL. wrote:
How can anyone think that statistics can be taught without algebra? What are they going to spend the whole year on, mean/mode/std dev? Without some level of algebra they'll never get past basic shit like t-tests. Not to mention that a decent amount of stats relies on calculus.
Algebra is such a fundamental aspect of anything quantitative it would be crazy to not teach it. The problem is most people think it's a bunch of useless letters and numbers and never learn enough to apply it at a meaningful level... and that too many people are taught algebra when they're unable to figure out things like fractions. Because a calculator allows you to skip any algebra you might encounter.
And hence the reason why 137.5% of all statistics are nonsense. If you don't understand the premises behind the T-test or other measures of significance and how, when and why to use them, don't make statistical claims....
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On March 29 2016 09:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 09:10 ZeaL. wrote:
How can anyone think that statistics can be taught without algebra? What are they going to spend the whole year on, mean/mode/std dev? Without some level of algebra they'll never get past basic shit like t-tests. Not to mention that a decent amount of stats relies on calculus.
Algebra is such a fundamental aspect of anything quantitative it would be crazy to not teach it. The problem is most people think it's a bunch of useless letters and numbers and never learn enough to apply it at a meaningful level... and that too many people are taught algebra when they're unable to figure out things like fractions. Because a calculator allows you to skip any algebra you might encounter.
Yes, and Microsoft Word and the internet allows you to have perfect spelling and perfect recall of all of geography and any historical event you are being tested on. Yet, those classes still exist.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
eh stats is one of those math areas where knowledge of the details is also a qualitative improvement to your understanding of the tools. a proofs based foundation is pretty important. you need it to understand econometrics methods
calculators and reg x y isn't statistical knowledge.
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On March 29 2016 09:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 09:10 ZeaL. wrote:
How can anyone think that statistics can be taught without algebra? What are they going to spend the whole year on, mean/mode/std dev? Without some level of algebra they'll never get past basic shit like t-tests. Not to mention that a decent amount of stats relies on calculus.
Algebra is such a fundamental aspect of anything quantitative it would be crazy to not teach it. The problem is most people think it's a bunch of useless letters and numbers and never learn enough to apply it at a meaningful level... and that too many people are taught algebra when they're unable to figure out things like fractions. Because a calculator allows you to skip any algebra you might encounter.
You still have to know where to plug and chug though which means you have to explain what p is and what n is and what a sum is and what y represents and at some point you might as well teach them algebra.
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EPT
