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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2974

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21666 Posts
February 20 2016 23:02 GMT
#59461
On February 21 2016 07:58 JW_DTLA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2016 07:55 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:38 Deathstar wrote:
He's not even an American. He's just trolling.

Bernie supporters have a tendency to jump on everything as being against them. There are legitimate concerns like the post registration and falsely claiming Hillary supports the $15 wage.
To make a fuss about wearing red seems trivial


It would be if it wasn't adding to a long list of deception and manipulation. It's so blatantly obvious the establishment is doing anything possible to rig/manipulate the elections that even cheating gets a shrug from Hillary supporters.


It makes more sense when you consider the fact that these people think Sanders has a 0% chance of beating Rubio. If the DNC cheating Clinton's way to victory is what prevents a Rubio presidency, sign me up.


Right? The policies at stake in the next election (supreme court, IraqWar3, Dodd-Frank, ACA, capital gains taxes, voting rights, private and public unions, immigration, abortion) matter way more than the new de jour about what some politician did to win**.

**And these stories are weak. Compare the election scandals we keep hearing about to the crap the Bush2 guys did in Florida in 2000.

Yeah..no..
"The other side is so bad its ok if we cheat" is not acceptable.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-20 23:04:24
February 20 2016 23:02 GMT
#59462
As I've said, I don't like the blatant favoritism over debates the DNC is giving to Hillary.

That said, there are very compelling reasons for them to offer her support. She's been a party member for 20+ years and raised tons of money (she's told her supporters to donate over 25M to the DNC to support downticket candidates, Sanders has donated a hundred bucks), supported candidates through endorsements and active campaigning. Over 80% of Congress has endorsed Hillary. This is called fucking loyalty.

Anyways, both sides have done shit. In a perfect would, would we have a national citizens database and some sort of voting based on unique biometric profiles via a uber secure channel available in every one's home? Yes, or something similar. But we don't. Democracy, even representative democracy, is fucking messy.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
February 20 2016 23:05 GMT
#59463
On February 21 2016 08:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
As I've said, I don't like the blatant favoritism over debates the DNC is giving to Hillary.

That said, there are very compelling reasons for them to offer her support. She's been a party member for 20+ years and raised tons of money (she's told her supporters to donate over 25M to the DNC to support downticket candidates, Sanders has donated a hundred bucks), supported candidates through endorsements and active campaigning. Over 80% of Congress has endorsed Hillary. This is called fucking loyalty.

Anyways, both sides have done shit. In a perfect would, would we have a national citizens database and some sort of voting based on unique biometric profiles via a uber secure channel available in every one's home? Yes, or something similar. But we don't. Democracy, even representative democracy, is fucking messy.


If we actually wanted more people to vote we would already have a better system, it's such a cluster on purpose.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21666 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-20 23:06:29
February 20 2016 23:05 GMT
#59464
On February 21 2016 08:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
As I've said, I don't like the blatant favoritism over debates the DNC is giving to Hillary.

That said, there are very compelling reasons for them to offer her support. She's been a party member for 20+ years and raised tons of money (she's told her supporters to donate over 25M to the DNC to support downticket candidates, Sanders has donated a hundred bucks), supported candidates through endorsements and active campaigning. Over 80% of Congress has endorsed Hillary. This is called fucking loyalty.

Anyways, both sides have done shit. In a perfect would, would we have a national citizens database and some sort of voting based on unique biometrics via a secure channel available in every one's home? Yes, or something similar. But we don't. Democracy, even representative democracy, is fucking messy.

The rest of the world seems to handle it pretty well.
Its not that hard to send a voting permit to everyone (since they have to register where they live to the government) and have that permit combined with an ID allow a ballot vote.
Works for both national and primary elections. Only in America is it a problem.

As for your other point. Yes the DNC favoring Hillary is logical and they can announce their public support for her but that does not condone manipulation.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-20 23:34:11
February 20 2016 23:06 GMT
#59465
On February 21 2016 08:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2016 07:58 JW_DTLA wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:55 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:38 Deathstar wrote:
He's not even an American. He's just trolling.

Bernie supporters have a tendency to jump on everything as being against them. There are legitimate concerns like the post registration and falsely claiming Hillary supports the $15 wage.
To make a fuss about wearing red seems trivial


It would be if it wasn't adding to a long list of deception and manipulation. It's so blatantly obvious the establishment is doing anything possible to rig/manipulate the elections that even cheating gets a shrug from Hillary supporters.


It makes more sense when you consider the fact that these people think Sanders has a 0% chance of beating Rubio. If the DNC cheating Clinton's way to victory is what prevents a Rubio presidency, sign me up.


Right? The policies at stake in the next election (supreme court, IraqWar3, Dodd-Frank, ACA, capital gains taxes, voting rights, private and public unions, immigration, abortion) matter way more than the new de jour about what some politician did to win**.

**And these stories are weak. Compare the election scandals we keep hearing about to the crap the Bush2 guys did in Florida in 2000.

Yeah..no..
"The other side is so bad its ok if we cheat" is not acceptable.


This is what some* Hillary supporters have come to...

Even the GOP (the voter suppression champions) don't try to pull the nonsense that the Democratic party does, it's pathetic.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
February 20 2016 23:08 GMT
#59466
On February 21 2016 08:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2016 08:02 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:58 JW_DTLA wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:55 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 21 2016 07:38 Deathstar wrote:
He's not even an American. He's just trolling.

Bernie supporters have a tendency to jump on everything as being against them. There are legitimate concerns like the post registration and falsely claiming Hillary supports the $15 wage.
To make a fuss about wearing red seems trivial


It would be if it wasn't adding to a long list of deception and manipulation. It's so blatantly obvious the establishment is doing anything possible to rig/manipulate the elections that even cheating gets a shrug from Hillary supporters.


It makes more sense when you consider the fact that these people think Sanders has a 0% chance of beating Rubio. If the DNC cheating Clinton's way to victory is what prevents a Rubio presidency, sign me up.


Right? The policies at stake in the next election (supreme court, IraqWar3, Dodd-Frank, ACA, capital gains taxes, voting rights, private and public unions, immigration, abortion) matter way more than the new de jour about what some politician did to win**.

**And these stories are weak. Compare the election scandals we keep hearing about to the crap the Bush2 guys did in Florida in 2000.

Yeah..no..
"The other side is so bad its ok if we cheat" is not acceptable.


This is what Hillary supporters have come to...


that's how you managed to mangle and interpret what i said you mean.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
February 21 2016 00:14 GMT
#59467
Yeah, the entire case both for and against team Clinton is that they are unethical cheaters. Either you think that's what the system needs to get shit done, or you're worried that they will irreparably damage the institution of the presidency by doing something obviously wrong of major proportion that gets out somehow.

I'm in the second camp mostly on the theory that you can only scandal-dodge for so long. Even Berlusconi got caught eventually.

But I do get the argument that she's the Nixon/LBJ we need right now, even if I'm worried about the Nixon part of that. Not sure we've ever had a pres like Sanders, though the most obvious parallel of Carter (idealist dreamer honestly and earnestly striving to make the world a more just place) is unfortunately unflattering.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 21 2016 00:29 GMT
#59468
I highly doubt that any shenanigans that Hillary supporters may have pulled made a significant difference in the outcome.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-21 00:50:23
February 21 2016 00:48 GMT
#59469
Bush and Carson should suspend their campaigns immediately. Kasich has no real shot but he'll stay since he was looking elsewhere coming into SC.

The less people in the race/debates, the worse it is for Trump imo. I'm not convinced he can go far beyond the same 35ish% he keeps getting. Matters little if the other 60 is split 5+ ways.

Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
February 21 2016 00:51 GMT
#59470
On February 21 2016 09:48 On_Slaught wrote:
Bush and Carson should suspend their campaigns immediately. Kasich has no real shot but he'll stay since he was looking elsewhere coming into SC.

The less people in the race/debates, the worse it is for Trump imo. I'm not convinced he can go far beyond the same 35-40% he keeps getting. Matters little if the other 60 is split 5+ ways.


The polls back this up. Trump loses 1v1 to both Cruz and Rubio substantially. Trump also doesn't do well among late deciders. He has his support that basically won't leave him (even if he were to shoot someone! lol) and everyone else is splitting the votes.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
February 21 2016 00:57 GMT
#59471
It's absolutely crazy if you follow social media online how it's all just meme spamming of "shillary","bernie bros" and so on. It's all memes in the literal sense of the word, there's no thinking involved it's just advertisement.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
February 21 2016 00:59 GMT
#59472
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
February 21 2016 01:08 GMT
#59473
Representative democracy is the best system we have. It consistently out-performs totalitarian governments like in China in the long-run. There's also no such thing as the average voter. Especially in a country that is as diverse in ideology. ethnicity, and culture as the US.
rip passion
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
February 21 2016 01:08 GMT
#59474
On February 21 2016 09:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.


Or, you know, the best argument for educating the electorate. I suppose it depends on you perspective on the influence average people should have on a governing system.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 21 2016 01:09 GMT
#59475
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 21 2016 01:15 GMT
#59476
Bad night for Cruz, particularly with Trump stealing so many evangelical votes.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 21 2016 01:18 GMT
#59477
Worse for Bush as he is under 10 percent, he's done.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 21 2016 01:18 GMT
#59478
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 21 2016 01:19 GMT
#59479
there is basically a lot of quasi conspiratorial enemy othering going on with some of the lefty voters. you need to do some declaration of opposition to the banks and corporations to not be seen as the enemy as well. it is getting tribal
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 21 2016 01:21 GMT
#59480
On February 21 2016 10:18 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Worse for Bush as he is under 10 percent, he's done.

Bush already had a fork in him.
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