US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2949

On February 18 2016 09:55 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pretty sure that a male candidates "maleness" doesn't come up because "I'm a man" isn't a key point of male candidates campaigns

On February 18 2016 09:55 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pretty sure that a male candidates "maleness" doesn't come up because "I'm a man" isn't a key point of male candidates campaigns

On February 18 2016 09:51 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
Do you guys see how even having this giant argument about how much femaleness Hillary can claim is evidence of the gender bias she faces? A male candidate simply never gets this discussion. You never have to weigh in on how much male-ness a male candidate can claim in his race. Check out Trump for instance. Or JEB's preposterous gun photo.

With a female candidate, we all have to have deep thoughts about just how much feminine progress Hillary can claim without going over our delicate sensibilities. Should she claim too much, our fragile male egos would be offended and we simply have to despise her. BTW, the men in this thread panicking over women claiming too much women stuff are seriously weak. You guys ought have a little pride than to be hurt by Hillary's fairly tame claims to female progress.

// 32yo white male poster

On February 18 2016 10:01 GreenHorizons wrote:


Yeah I don't need the lecture on bias...

The argument about "but men do it too" reminds me of her argument for having a super PAC. Her opponent doesn't have one, just as in this there is practically nothing in Bernie's campaign emphasizing his maleness.

You're right about people on the right trying to instigate though.

NEW YORK—Citing her lackluster support among young voters, campaign consultants to Hillary Clinton, the Democratic presidential frontrunner who has served as both a U.S. senator and secretary of state, reportedly instructed the candidate this week to be more inspiring. “Right now, voters are looking for a candidate who stands for real societal change, someone who can stir something inside them,” said media advisor Jim Margolis, urging the woman—who overcame entrenched societal biases to build a successful legal career, became the first female senator elected in the state of New York, oversaw the Department of State during a period of widespread international tumult, and, if elected, would be the first female president in American history—to appear more uplifting to voters. “Many young people have completely lost faith in the political process, and they want to believe that true progress is actually possible. They want someone who embodies progressive ideals.” Margolis added that Clinton was too much a part of the establishment she spent decades breaking down barriers to enter.

On February 18 2016 09:51 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
Do you guys see how even having this giant argument about how much femaleness Hillary can claim is evidence of the gender bias she faces? A male candidate simply never gets this discussion. You never have to weigh in on how much male-ness a male candidate can claim in his race. Check out Trump for instance. Or JEB's preposterous gun photo.

With a female candidate, we all have to have deep thoughts about just how much feminine progress Hillary can claim without going over our delicate sensibilities. Should she claim too much, our fragile male egos would be offended and we simply have to despise her. BTW, the men in this thread panicking over women claiming too much women stuff are seriously weak. You guys ought have a little pride than to be hurt by Hillary's fairly tame claims to female progress.

// 32yo white male poster

On February 18 2016 10:11 CannonsNCarriers wrote:


Yes yes, Bernie's campaign doesn't have to answer gender questions. But Hillary's does and necessarily has to. Like when Albright stepped over the offensive line and made claims about women supporting other women. We all freaked out that Hillary was making a gender play. Grand paens were written by men clutching their pearls that they might be excluded from an appeal and Hillary simply must repudiate her offensive gender politics. The line that Hillary has to tiptoe around does not exist for Bernie, and doesn't exist for the male Republican candidates. The "line" being that Hillary must not claim too much feminism lest she be accused of playing gender politics.

I am not attacking Bernie here. I am trying to point out a systemic bias going on and provoke some posters here to question just why we have to have these discussions about Hillary being too feminist.

On February 18 2016 09:55 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pretty sure that a male candidates "maleness" doesn't come up because "I'm a man" isn't a key point of male candidates campaigns

On February 18 2016 10:15 Plansix wrote:

They talk about it all the time, you just don't notice. They say "I'm a father of two daughters," that they are a "loving husband". They talk about being a young man in college or being a "good son". They used the phrase "family man," and that they are "a man that understands hard work."

They target male voters the exact same ways that Clinton targets women. The only reason you notice when Clinton does it is because she isn't targeting you.

On February 18 2016 10:18 CannonsNCarriers wrote:


And the candidates who use those lines never get any crap for them (openly gender based appeals).

On February 18 2016 10:29 Plansix wrote:

And then when they talk about a being a loving father and family man, they take the time to point out and thank their wife. Sometimes they bring the wife up on the stage at events too. I'm sure it just because all the wives throughout history 100% wanted to be there and not straight up pandering male voters wives.

On February 18 2016 10:15 Plansix wrote:

They talk about it all the time, you just don't notice. They say "I'm a father of two daughters," that they are a "loving husband". They talk about being a young man in college or being a "good son". They used the phrase "family man," and that they are "a man that understands hard work."

They target male voters the exact same ways that Clinton targets women. The only reason you notice when Clinton does it is because she isn't targeting you.

On February 18 2016 09:31 Simberto wrote:

I don't vote for people based on their gender.

I also don't think i have ever seen someone say "Vote for me because i am a man!" or anything along those lines. Or do you mean by "implicitly" "They don't actually say that, but some sexist people will prefer a man for being male". In that case, what you should be aiming for is for those people to stop being sexist, as opposed to some sort of "reverse sexism" (And yes, i know that that phrase is overused bei scummy MRA people, but i can't think of a better word to describe what i mean), where you demand that people vote for you only because you are female, and not because of your accomplishments, qualifications, or whatever else might be important.

As i said, a good test is "Would it change my opinion if the genders were reversed" Imagine Bernadette Sanders vs Hugh Clinton. Does that change who you would vote for? If yes, than you are still influenced by the gender of people, which you really shouldn't if you do believe in the equality of man and woman. And for me, a candidate who focussed on that kind of identity as a selling point loses points (Not that they matter, as i obviously don't vote in the US anyways), because they are clearly missing a point that is important to me, namely a true belief in the equality of all persons.

On February 18 2016 09:35 oneofthem wrote:

this is a curious thought though. would you oppose say joe stiglitz because of his technocratic resume. more is required to draw hillary's particular offensive brand of wonkiness.

On February 18 2016 10:38 Sbrubbles wrote:


Aren't those quotes just meant to emphasize family and values? Maybe I just don't get it, but to me changing genders: "I'm a mother of two sons," "loving wife", being a young woman in college or being a "good daughter", "family woman" , "a woman that understands hard work." carry the exact same meaning. The only one that would sound weird is "family woman", probably because "family man" is used as an expression.

On February 18 2016 10:45 IgnE wrote:

My bad simberto, i meant to quote plansix.

On February 18 2016 10:50 IgnE wrote:


I probably wouldn't vote for Stiglitz the Academy Trained Economist, but I might for Stiglitz the Human Being. Hillary is barely a real person. She buried Hillary the Human Being shortly after college, probably about the same time she made a deal to marry Bill.

On February 18 2016 10:55 Acrofales wrote:
I may very well be wrong here, but I don't think Hillary is trying to say "vote for me because I am a woman", but more "vote for me, because I understand the gender issues you all face, and in fact have fought against them for most of my life". She is pointing out her inherent, gender based advantage to women, who may very well be frustrated by many of the issues that Clinton has also had to overcome and is (presumably) committed to help other women overcome if she becomes president.