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On February 18 2016 06:33 xDaunt wrote:Hillary is so pathetic: Show nested quote +The exchange tees me up perfectly to ask: If New York City still isn’t ready for its first female mayor, is the United States ready for its first female president? Why is this still such a hurdle for women in our country? “You know,” she says with a sigh, “I really don’t know. I think it’s gotten better. But I think there still is a very deep set of concerns that people have, which very often they’re not even aware of or they couldn’t articulate. There’s nothing overt about it in most instances. People are very convinced they want to vote for the right person. And then . . . you know, you get little hints that maybe they’re not as comfortable with a woman being in an executive position. Especially in a big, rough-and-tumble setting like New York City or the United States of America. But I think it’s changing. I’ve noticed a big improvement between now and the last time I ran.” Source. Bernie supporters -- guess what? Hillary thinks you're a bunch of misogynists. This shit is just too insulting.
None of that is false or pathetic. It's factual. And she did not call Bernie supporters misogynists. You really are desperately looking for ways to attack her, it's beautiful to witness. If she does win the presidency, your meltdown is going to be one for the ages.
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On February 18 2016 07:47 Plansix wrote:
Here is a better question: If we listed out all those "underhanded tactics" right now, what would that accomplish and why would it matter? Would it accomplish anything but fueling the great debate of to prove who has the shittiest supporters?
Hillary's repeated overplaying of the woman card has nothing to do with her supporters.
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I would support Elizabeth Warren over Joe Biden.
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On February 18 2016 07:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 07:47 Plansix wrote:
Here is a better question: If we listed out all those "underhanded tactics" right now, what would that accomplish and why would it matter? Would it accomplish anything but fueling the great debate of to prove who has the shittiest supporters? Hillary's repeated overplaying of the woman card has nothing to do with her supporters.
Someone is mad because he tries to play "the man card" but no one cares because its not that impressive.
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I'm not sure that made sense Plansix.
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You guys can play the fool if you'd like, but I'll pass.
Of course Hillary like every other woman faces both explicit and subconscious bias as a woman and yeah, Sanders supporters aren't saints either so some are sexist, racist assholes (Just less than the rest of the camps imo). Clinton is going full blast on old school politics particularly in print.
It's a longer piece and I could only stomach so much at a time but we have to put it in some context. First, it's Vogue, the author loves the Clintons, and I imagine if you dig you'll see more connections. Now basically being a Clinton fan doesn't mean the piece is inherently garbage, but let's not pretend this is journalism in the sense of dogged truth seeking or that the timing is coincidence.
Frankly I don't see what the issue is. I'm not a fan of Deathstar's dismissive tone but that's as about as bad as it gets and usually someone checks them at that point.
She (more some of her supporters) can't be constantly doing this if she wants to convince me she can take the worst the GOP dishes out. I don't believe that for a second. Trump isn't going away. He'll still be around throwing Molotov's and juggling nitro even if people are still in the camp thinking he's not winning the nomination.
Call it what you want but it's a political fluff piece where she made the points she wanted to make and the insinuation is clear to those that are paying attention to the details. Like I said though this isn't really in my wheelhouse women seem to be taking all this pretty personally, so I defer to them (but you know internet gaming forum and all so I figure I could give a rundown).
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But "You should vote for me because i am a woman" is a really bad argument to make. You should not vote for a person based on their gender, the color of their skin, their religion, or anything else. You should vote for the person that you think will make the best president, not for some symbolic statement.
And thus, people get annoyed by Hillary constantly mentioning the fact that she is female. It should not be relevant whether she is female or not.
What you should ask yourself is "Would it change who i prefer as a president if Hillary Clinton were male and Bernie Sanders were female." If that is the case, you are sexist. Elevating such a superficial detail of a person to a defining factor of them is very shallow, and in my opinion you should focus on issues as opposed to gender.
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On February 18 2016 08:10 IgnE wrote:
I'm not sure that made sense Plansix.
One of our attorneys has practiced before the bankruptcy court for 40 years. About 5 years ago an super clown attorney accused her playing to the female judges to rule in her favor on an appeal. Of course he did this in private, because he isn't crazy. She laugh it off and said she knew he had given up on the winning the case after that. Because its the argument men make when they don't have one.
Its the argument men make when they don't have an argument. Of course Hillary tries to appeal to women, so does every candidate. If she does so by saying "I'm a woman too," its because she isn't insanely stupid. The difference is that men play the "man card" 24/7, because the default in politics. They all talk about being tough men and good fathers. They can't accuse each other of be pandering to men, which they do all the time, because they are all doing it.
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On February 18 2016 06:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:56 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
You are comparing the world of politics as it is now, or has been the last few decades, with the first half of the previous century? One of the greatest failings all people have is assuming their time is so different, special and unique that nothing from the past compares. FDR accomplished a lot of things during the great depression, a period in US history that we have almost no ability to truly understand.
True, he was the last moderate that was US president, and he wasn't sabotages, though that took a lot of effort.
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On February 18 2016 08:22 Plansix wrote:One of our attorneys has practiced before the bankruptcy court for 40 years. About 5 years ago an super clown attorney accused her playing to the female judges to rule in her favor on an appeal. Of course he did this in private, because he isn't crazy. She laugh it off and said she knew he had given up on the winning the case after that. Because its the argument men make when they don't have one. Its the argument men make when they don't have an argument. Of course Hillary tries to appeal to women, so does every candidate. If she does so by saying "I'm a woman too," its because she isn't insanely stupid. The difference is that men play the "man card" 24/7, because the default in politics. They all talk about being tough men and good fathers. They can't accuse each other of be pandering to men, which they do all the time, because they are all doing it.
That's a generally fair point but I don't think Bernie's done that either. I mean I think he plays to implicit bias by projecting his voice but that's pretty unavoidable.
I think Nyx's point is well placed and I don't think there are many Sanders supporters who would vote for a male Clinton.
I think there's reasonable times and places to discuss it and Vanity is one of those (but pretty passe). She brings it up constantly unprovoked though. Again, I'm over it, so it's just wasted breath for me but it bothers me that it bothers women. Myself, it doesn't make my top 10 of things that piss me off about her or her campaign, however much or little it's an intentional effort to paint Sanders supporters as misogynists or ignorant women.
EDIT: To keep the election in context, we're just entering the phase of the campaign where people getting on board with Bernie missed the whole fight against people dismissing Bernie, and calling supporters all sorts of names for thinking he had a chance against Hillary.
Bernie didn't have a bunch of support from folks who didn't know anything and just heard his name. Hillary on the other hand has lots of supporters that just recognize the name and person and only know what they've gotten from the corporate media, that same corporate media that has dismissed and avoided Bernie up until recently.
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I think an interesting connection to draw is how Obama could only do "so much" for black people because of the fact his actions will be colored (pardon the possibly offensive pun) by the idea of a black guy helping black people. Heard it on NPR this morning actually.
Does Hillary ask for the support of women? Yes, because (as P6 said) she's not stupid. Does Sanders "solicit support" from women? Yes he does, he talks about support of rights and all that jazz.
Hillary/ her campaign does some things to solicit female support that are not exactly laudable and insinuates crap, but I don't think she's ever (or ever will) make the explicit statement that you should vote for her because she's a woman. However, she'll use it to her advantage.
Maybe there are truly some super hardcore feminist-type single issue voters, but supporting Hillary, or any other candidate, should be based on a holistic consideration of their character, record and policy platform.
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On February 18 2016 08:35 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think an interesting connection to draw is how Obama could only do "so much" for black people because of the fact his actions will be colored (pardon the possibly offensive pun) by the idea of a black guy helping black people. Heard it on NPR this morning actually.
Does Hillary ask for the support of women? Yes, because (as P6 said) she's not stupid. Does Sanders "solicit support" from women? Yes he does, he talks about support of rights and all that jazz.
Hillary/ her campaign does some things to solicit female support that are not exactly laudable and insinuates crap, but I don't think she's ever (or ever will) make the explicit statement that you should vote for her because she's a woman. However, she'll use it to her advantage.
Maybe there are truly some super hardcore feminist-type single issue voters, but supporting Hillary, or any other candidate, should be based on a holistic consideration of their character, record and policy platform.
You don't think that it's egregious enough for her to respond to the question of why she's not a member of the political establishment by saying that she's a woman?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
with respect to women's causes, sanders could simply destroy hillary on the issue by replacing free college with free childcare on his platform.
i'm not really sure how he puts his spending plan together. is there much balancing between the options along the lines of a most cost effective x politically probable analysis.
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All the candidates bring up aspects of themselves that their base likes all the time. Unprovoked or otherwise. I really don’t see her saying she is a woman that made it in Washington any worse than Sanders being proud of his voting record on Iraq. Trump claiming he is a good businessman. Rubio talking about his family. Cruz talking about the pod of lizard people he grew up with.
Another way to think about it is this. No woman that supports Clinton is going to be receptive to the argument that Clinton is pandering to her or she supports Clinton because she is a woman. Any woman in any field deals with the implied sexism of them obtaining a job/position/support due to being a woman/attractive. For them, it is like the sun, constant. They cannot be won over with that argument, so why would anyone even make it? Why even make it a topic?
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On February 18 2016 08:43 oneofthem wrote:
with respect to women's causes, sanders could simply destroy hillary on the issue by replacing free college with free childcare on his platform.
He'd get a lot of republican support for this, too.
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On February 18 2016 08:46 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 08:43 oneofthem wrote:
with respect to women's causes, sanders could simply destroy hillary on the issue by replacing free college with free childcare on his platform. He'd get a lot of republican support for this, too.
It's already in his platform.
As for her constantly bringing up being a woman it's obviously different than bringing up a vote on going to war.
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I'm not sure why anybody thinks that comments made by Clinton (or anybody else) about misogyny are more likely to be directed at Sanders supporters than at Republicans.
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United States43199 Posts
On February 18 2016 08:46 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 08:43 oneofthem wrote:
with respect to women's causes, sanders could simply destroy hillary on the issue by replacing free college with free childcare on his platform. He'd get a lot of republican support for this, too.
Certainly for the destroying Hillary part. :p
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On February 18 2016 08:52 Aquanim wrote:
I'm not sure why anybody thinks that comments made by Clinton (or anybody else) about misogyny are more likely to be directed at Sanders supporters than at Republicans.
Are you on social media?
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On February 18 2016 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 08:52 Aquanim wrote:
I'm not sure why anybody thinks that comments made by Clinton (or anybody else) about misogyny are more likely to be directed at Sanders supporters than at Republicans. Are you on social media?
Nope :p
I do appreciate that the Clinton campaign has the knives out for Sanders at this stage, but that particular accusation sticks so much better to the Republicans than to Sanders.
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EPT
