EPTOn October 15 2015 01:48 IgnE wrote:
And life is great. Just play video games, masturbate, and work.
And life is great. Just play video games, masturbate, and work.
FTFY
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2406
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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frazzle
United States468 Posts
FTFY | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:06 Mohdoo wrote: With regards to the debate, I think Biden is officially out. Last night's debate was Sanders hoping that Clinton would do poorly enough that he or Biden could take over. Clinton did great. She was energetic, got a lot of great points in and overall conveyed a ton of confidence and capability. She has such a solid image of being the "stable, strong, reasonable" candidate that it was gonna take a lot for her to lose to the more wild Sanders. Biden has no opening at this point. He's officially out IMO. I also can't list a single person who I have talked to who supports the idea of free college. Clinton comes closest to being reasonable by saying with 10 hours per week of work. I think free college is a really silly thing to prop up. Democrats need to jump off that boat real quick. Shut the fuck up about it, Sanders. Every republican hopes you're right that Biden stays out. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On October 15 2015 01:12 KwarK wrote: I earn less than the median wage, I've only been in America for 18 months and I struggled with immigration issues for over half of that, I didn't inherit a house and I have separate finances to my wife. I'll openly acknowledge my privilege, I'm white, male, intelligent and I look the part, when I interview for a job I look pretty much like the guy they planned to hire. Not everyone has that but other people have advantages, like not having to fight for the right to work, that I didn't have. Ultimately though the system is not set up to give you a free ride if you weren't born to one. While it's unfair that the American system has effectively created an aristocracy that doesn't mean you have to accept a position at the bottom. The system isn't perfect, in many ways it's very dysfunctional, but life isn't going to wait for you while you fix it. You have to do what you can to work the system as it is while you try and improve it and for the vast majority of people struggling in America today there is more that you can do. Hell, my wife and I knew an online nerd through video games who had been homeless (squatting with one friend or another until they kicked him out) and unemployed for the better part of a decade. He also had pretty crippling health issues. We fronted the money to get him to our state and help him restart his life and it turned out that 95% of his problems were self inflicted due to learned helplessness. Problems like being unable to get government aid due to no state ID, no state ID due to no fixed address and so forth, unable to get VA medical care due to lost DD214 and unable to get new one due to no valid ID, no bank account all could be fixed. It took a day or so of me calling around the various organizations that were involved, speaking to higher ups and finding out exactly what documents they needed and I successfully hacked the system. We used the expired documents we had to get the first document, the first to get the second, the first and second to get the third and so forth. He's now working and paying for himself and while it's unlikely I'll ever get the money that I fronted him back, and to be honest I resent the hell out of that because he could change that if he really tried, I was able to turn around a decade of learned helplessness, homelessness, unemployment and government aid in about 2 weeks. The system is fucked. But this isn't a new system. You know the system is fucked. Everyone knows the system is fucked. The question is what are you going to do to work within the fucked system. Kwark, this is one of your posts that I really respect and want to throw in my two cents on how this system is fucked, but exactly what are you going to do about it? I've been on TL for a VERY long time and most of the mods here or posters know who I am and what I used to post around here. Obviously I was young and just posted a bunch of shit - but there were very troubling issues behind it. From birth to around age 11, I grew up in a six figure family, but the money brought a lot of issues in the house. My mom first took abuse from my father until I was able to realize at the age 11 we needed to leave and went from being six figure to $30k a year with my mother making the most of it. I grew up poor afterwards and didn't really care much for school (I worked under the table to help support the house), but I still had the joy of learning and experiencing new things which brought me to web development at an early age. I didn't go to college because my mother passed away after high school (I was homeless for quite a while with no real family around). I met a friend through SC a year prior to this, but he did not know the issues I was going through until I told him (needed to just vent) but he offered me a place to stay for free when he found out I was actually near him. This changed my life around completely, a random person from the internet offering me help? It might have been sketchy, but obviously I made sure I was safe prior to meeting and moving in. During this whole time, I did have a job (25hrs a week + side money from shitty graphic design jobs), but the money wasn't good enough to put me up into even a shared room. Rent is extremely expensive where I live, but this person turned it around for me. He gave me a place, where I was able to sleep and was able to shower daily. Because of this person, it opened my eyes on how I can better myself and really improve. I stayed with him only a month because that one month gave me enough time to get my shit together. I started pushing my old web development skills back up to be my trade. I now run two business and just joined a great company in order to grow their development department. What I've learned from people that are poor and or are always having some kind of issue, is the fact that they don't want to leave that lifestyle. Only you yourself can push yourself to be better and maybe with just a tap of a friend. I have so many friends from high school who always did better than me and now they're the ones with the dead end jobs because they choose that lifestyle. The system is fucked, but in reality you just need to learn on how you can fuck the system and become the person you want to be. EDIT: I actually came to talk about the democratic debate, who enjoyed it? Lol. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 15 2015 01:59 frazzle wrote: I was just scrolling through here to see if anyone was commenting on Huckabee's debate tweets, and came across this and just felt I need to mention this. While the US has drawn down dramatically from Iraq and Afghanistan, it seems a poor choice of words to cite an American "withdrawal". The US still maintains a very significant military presence in the area that allows it to mess with players in the region to great effect, and that won't change anytime soon. See here: en.wikipedia.org, not to mention that this includes the might of the 5th fleet. What would you call it then? The US effectively left Iraq and has refused to assert any leadership in Syria. Hell, the US is barely working with Iraqis to kick ISIS out of Iraq, which is resulting in Iraq being pushed into the arms of Russia and Iran. There simply is no denying that the US has created a huge power vacuum in the Middle East. If that's not "withdrawal," then I don't know what is. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:28 xDaunt wrote: What would you call it then? The US effectively left Iraq and has refused to assert any leadership in Syria. Hell, the US is barely working with Iraqis to kick ISIS out of Iraq, which is resulting in Iraq being pushed into the arms of Russia and Iran. There simply is no denying that the US has created a huge power vacuum in the Middle East. If that's not "withdrawal," then I don't know what is. You seem to forget that Bush burned through all the political will to engage that region. Poll still show that the Iraq war and intervention is Syria is widely unpopular. Bush fucked it up and put us in a situation that is literally unwinnable. The only thing the US people will get behind is airstrikes. Also, you blame Obama, but the Republicans voted down use of airstrikes when chemical weapons were used. They would rather bitch about Obama messing it up while also hamstringing his ability to do anything. | ||
KwarK
United States42694 Posts
I predict a Clinton win and an America more strongly divided than ever. On an unrelated note I watched this yesterday and it was pretty informative. http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000003795356/the-shadow-of-waco.html?playlistId=100000002148738 Also I didn't realize that the militia groups actually won the Clive Bundy fight, they pointed guns at the officials of the Federal government and threatened to start a massacre which wouldn't be worth the money owed. So the Feds accepted that this was a game of who could be the more insane and decided that they had a responsibility to try and be the more sane party. The Federal Government backed down to the armed mob and the money owed has never been collected. That's one hell of a precedent. Might as well start wearing a suicide jacket and refuse to pay taxes. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 14 2015 23:52 Plansix wrote: This was the same assessment Obama got when he ran against Hilary the first time and he did fine. But a lot of people thought he stood no chance if he didn’t start attacking her. There is this theory that if they are not assaulting the propertied leader that the second place runner is not gaining any ground. #1 Have you seen the Obama people's memo that just got released on how to beat Hillary? It on the post or NY mag (on mobile else I'd find it)? #2 He doesn't need to attack her outright, just actually draw a distinction between them. The only time he really did that successfully was on gun control where he basically made the point that not everyone has private security and/or cops less than a mile away like they do in NYC or DC. Defending her on the email front is probably smart, but if he isn't going to make it about her integrity on that, he needs to attack her on TPP, Syria, Libya, NAFTA etc. #3 The reason he needs to do #2 is because Hillary has successfully read the winds of the party and tacked pretty far left, such that they have very few "official" substantive differences. Everyone on stage was up there praising Obama, well she served in his administration! Not a way to pick up 30 points. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:06 Mohdoo wrote: With regards to the debate, I think Biden is officially out. Last night's debate was Sanders hoping that Clinton would do poorly enough that he or Biden could take over. Clinton did great. She was energetic, got a lot of great points in and overall conveyed a ton of confidence and capability. She has such a solid image of being the "stable, strong, reasonable" candidate that it was gonna take a lot for her to lose to the more wild Sanders. Biden has no opening at this point. He's officially out IMO. I also can't list a single person who I have talked to who supports the idea of free college. Clinton comes closest to being reasonable by saying with 10 hours per week of work. I think free college is a really silly thing to prop up. Democrats need to jump off that boat real quick. Shut the fuck up about it, Sanders. The problem with college or uni's in general is the fact that tuition is tooo fucking damn high... I went to a community college where I owe $15k in debt - I've paid it everyday, but it fucking sucks that I have to pay a debt for a community college that I never finished. This is what's causing issues with our education - no one wants to learn in schools anymore because why? Would you rather learn some thing new on the internet and try to apply it to your real life for free or end up owing a fuck ton? | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Is it because of Bill, who is still recognized as a good president, or is it due to her own personality ? | ||
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frazzle
United States468 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:28 xDaunt wrote: What would you call it then? The US effectively left Iraq and has refused to assert any leadership in Syria. Hell, the US is barely working with Iraqis to kick ISIS out of Iraq, which is resulting in Iraq being pushed into the arms of Russia and Iran. There simply is no denying that the US has created a huge power vacuum in the Middle East. If that's not "withdrawal," then I don't know what is. This comes off once again as hyperbole to me. The US is still involved in Iraq, it just isn't at occupation levels. The US is bombing ISIS targets in Iraq and Syria and arming some rebel groups. Previously the US had nearly no involvement with this Russian ally. Withdrawal implies to me a complete removal, but what is actually happening now is a backing off from ham-fisted over-involvement. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10716 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 15 2015 01:57 KwarK wrote: It's pretty great when you're married, two incomes no kids in a low cost of living area. It lowers the already low cost of living, makes cooking your own meals better and you get an awesome roommate. Would recommend. move to new york | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:39 WhiteDog wrote: My problem is who believe in Hillary ? I have a hard time understanding this. Those kind of politicians, like Hillary, who have years and years of experience, are usually so mainstream they lose all support (at least in my country). Yet Hillary, after losing the primaries already in 2008 I believe, is still running and still having support and some kind of dynamic. Is it because of Bill, who is still recognized as a good president, or is it due to her own personality ? She doesn't have the same primary opponent this time that she had in 2008. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Personal finance: I think there's a lot of people who, like Shockeyy said, complain a lot about their financial situation (or at least their financial future) but are just too lazy to make things better when their income sets them up very well. They get by day by day-- It's like the good is enemy of great cliche, except, it's more like okay is the enemy of good. College education:Speaking of college, I went to a place where I got a full tuition scholarship. Sounds nice, but I still ended up paying like 100K because I didn't get adjustments for tuition increases, housing and a variety of fees and stuff. As much I hate to say it, having a piece of paper with a sticker price of 200K has set me up for life, or at least given me good friends and a good first job. I'm grateful to have been born and raised in a situation that let me pay my 200K for success, but that's goddamn unfair. Elections: Hillary's chances of winning the nomination and the presidency just shot up-- it was her debate to lose, but she did a lot more than not lose. Biden's probably not going to join. Bernie will play out for awhile, I hope he gets the VP nod but even if he doesn't I think he'll continue speaking from his heart and on the national stage. From a party perspective, he'll drive great turnout. As it looks now. the presidency is all but guaranteed for the Democrats (and Clinton), and they're gonna win big in Congress. | ||
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KwarK
United States42694 Posts
New York is a choice. If life sucks in New York then the answer isn't that life must inevitably suck, it's that you should leave New York. Come to Albuquerque, I'll buy you a drink. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23236 Posts
Even the pro-hillary debate audience groaned when she said "I went to wall street and told them to cut it out". As for working with congress and the dirty 40, Sanders says it practically every time he speaks, no president can do what needs to be done alone. It's going to take a political revolution. Hence why the Sanders grassroots groups are out getting ountless new voters registered from 17-70. There was a huge push with 10's of thousands of calls made to New York residents because they needed to register as Democrat before the first debate in order to vote in New York's primary. As much of Bernie's positions that Hillary has recently adopted she isn't even giving lip service to the notion of actually doing anything effective to reign in wall street a clear and obvious difference, that coincidentally along with citizens united are nationally popular positions. His email response clearly won him more points than anything else that night though. Sanders needs some Clinton supporters to defect in order for him to win. Attacking her on the email issue would not of helped in the democratic primary one iota. Watching the debate, the spin after, and knowing Bernie I expect him to pounce on her weakness toward wall street and for it to resonate widely. Clinton supporters are tired of having to defend "scandal" after "scandal", so knowing Sanders isn't that type, but has all the good views Hillary purports to have without the baggage, he will become a more and more attractive option for them. | ||
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notesfromunderground
188 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:39 WhiteDog wrote: My problem is who believe in Hillary ? I have a hard time understanding this. Those kind of politicians, like Hillary, who have years and years of experience, are usually so mainstream they lose all support (at least in my country). Yet Hillary, after losing the primaries already in 2008 I believe, is still running and still having support and some kind of dynamic. Is it because of Bill, who is still recognized as a good president, or is it due to her own personality ? Because the dominant force in american electoral politics is basically stockholm syndrome | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 15 2015 02:06 Mohdoo wrote: With regards to the debate, I think Biden is officially out. Last night's debate was Sanders hoping that Clinton would do poorly enough that he or Biden could take over. Clinton did great. She was energetic, got a lot of great points in and overall conveyed a ton of confidence and capability. She has such a solid image of being the "stable, strong, reasonable" candidate that it was gonna take a lot for her to lose to the more wild Sanders. Biden has no opening at this point. He's officially out IMO. I also can't list a single person who I have talked to who supports the idea of free college. Clinton comes closest to being reasonable by saying with 10 hours per week of work. I think free college is a really silly thing to prop up. Democrats need to jump off that boat real quick. Shut the fuck up about it, Sanders. I wasn't expecting the Clinton that showed up. She looked less plastic for once. I was also pleasantly reminded how fun it is to listen to two Democrats agree and nuance how capitalism needs to be reined in. Just re-listened to a couple segments and it's pretty fun. Fun in small doses. It puts in stark relief one aspect of the great political divide. Is the big economic issue protecting termed-vulnerable groups from the excesses of capitalism using government, or protecting the benefits of capitalism from the excesses of government? The costs of college have skyrocketed, that's part of the new "bubble" of student debt. All this at a time when a host of majors can't deliver on employability (blame the economy, the deficit of jobs for the liberal arts, or computer/robot automation). I'm expecting more to buy into taxpayer-funded college simply as a remedy to the out of control costs. Demonize the rich and corporations in rhetoric, stick the price tags on them. Maybe, because of the reticent like Mohdoo, they'll start with programs of assisted payment or student debt forgiveness. I think the Democrat base will eventually support the idea. I don't see them inventing other means of controlling the cost. On October 15 2015 02:28 ShoCkeyy wrote: Inspiring story, even if rather misplaced here.Kwark, this is one of your posts that I really respect and want to throw in my two cents on how this system is fucked, but exactly what are you going to do about it? I've been on TL for a VERY long time and most of the mods here or posters know who I am and what I used to post around here. Obviously I was young and just posted a bunch of shit - but there were very troubling issues behind it. From birth to around age 11, I grew up in a six figure family, but the money brought a lot of issues in the house. My mom first took abuse from my father until I was able to realize at the age 11 we needed to leave and went from being six figure to $30k a year with my mother making the most of it. I grew up poor afterwards and didn't really care much for school (I worked under the table to help support the house), but I still had the joy of learning and experiencing new things which brought me to web development at an early age. I didn't go to college because my mother passed away after high school (I was homeless for quite a while with no real family around). I met a friend through SC a year prior to this, but he did not know the issues I was going through until I told him (needed to just vent) but he offered me a place to stay for free when he found out I was actually near him. This changed my life around completely, a random person from the internet offering me help? It might have been sketchy, but obviously I made sure I was safe prior to meeting and moving in. During this whole time, I did have a job (25hrs a week + side money from shitty graphic design jobs), but the money wasn't good enough to put me up into even a shared room. Rent is extremely expensive where I live, but this person turned it around for me. He gave me a place, where I was able to sleep and was able to shower daily. Because of this person, it opened my eyes on how I can better myself and really improve. I stayed with him only a month because that one month gave me enough time to get my shit together. I started pushing my old web development skills back up to be my trade. I now run two business and just joined a great company in order to grow their development department. What I've learned from people that are poor and or are always having some kind of issue, is the fact that they don't want to leave that lifestyle. Only you yourself can push yourself to be better and maybe with just a tap of a friend. I have so many friends from high school who always did better than me and now they're the ones with the dead end jobs because they choose that lifestyle. The system is fucked, but in reality you just need to learn on how you can fuck the system and become the person you want to be. EDIT: I actually came to talk about the democratic debate, who enjoyed it? Lol. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On October 15 2015 03:15 GreenHorizons wrote: Clinton supporters are tired of having to defend "scandal" after "scandal", so knowing Sanders isn't that type, but has all the good views Hillary purports to have without the baggage, he will become a more and more attractive option for them. I don't see Benghazi or emails as legitimate scandals. I think they are attempts to emphasize and shift reality. But as a whole, neither emails or Benghazi give me reason to second guess Clinton. Ties to wall st etc are legitimate, but scandals... there are no Clinton scandals in my eyes. I really don't think Sanders has "all the good views". I appreciate and respect his general view on who is winning, who is losing, and what direction our country needs to go. But I don't appreciate his radical, senseless perspective on how to get it done. Nothing he says is something I could reasonably see making it through the house and senate and becoming law. So while I appreciate his thoughts, I feel like I have no basis from which to formulate a theoretical Sanders presidency. No, state university will not be free. So, Sanders, what then? He doesn't say. He just makes up these beautiful scenarios of our socialistic utopia, but what good is that really? What separates his rhetoric from an episode of star trek? On October 15 2015 03:20 Danglars wrote: The costs of college have skyrocketed, that's part of the new "bubble" of student debt. All this at a time when a host of majors can't deliver on employability (blame the economy, the deficit of jobs for the liberal arts, or computer/robot automation). I'm expecting more to buy into taxpayer-funded college simply as a remedy to the out of control costs. Demonize the rich and corporations in rhetoric, stick the price tags on them. Maybe, because of the reticent like Mohdoo, they'll start with programs of assisted payment or student debt forgiveness. I think the Democrat base will eventually support the idea. I don't see them inventing other means of controlling the cost. I think what will end up happening is a new form of debt repayment. Some loans already offer the ability to have your payment be some percentage of your income. I think it will become easier to just pay 10% of your income for 10 years and be done with it or something like that. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 15 2015 03:05 KwarK wrote: New York is a choice. If life sucks in New York then the answer isn't that life must inevitably suck, it's that you should leave New York. Come to Albuquerque, I'll buy you a drink. This is exactly right and the precise reason why I left California to move to Colorado. | ||
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