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United States42693 Posts
On October 15 2015 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Kwark, your perspective on the issue seems to be based on the fact that you have a natural affinity for finance and numbers, IMO. I brute forced my way through it with my limited abilities at finance. My brother, who repairs trucks for the military and hates balancing his check book, has no chance of feeling confident with any investment without assistance. Luckily he has family members who can help, but not everyone has that.
Consumerism is a problem, but the way the finical system operates and that they don’t market to the lower middle class and under educated is a big issue in the US. And that the government doesn’t push for savings and investment is also a problem.
The government pushes very hard for savings and investments. The problem is predominantly user error and that's difficult to fix. Social security is mandatory savings and investments. It underperforms the market pretty hard because it's invested in US bonds but that's what the social security paycheck deduction is. It's the government forcing you to make retirement investments.
401k and comparable programs are government sponsored schemes. The problem with them is generally user error and that's exactly why the government created the MyRA program.
The Saver's Credit, a government program that matches you 50 cents to the dollar on retirement contributions, is exclusively available to the lower and middle class. It basically reads "you, poor person, yes you, I will pay you $500 to save $1000 towards your retirement, rich people need not apply".
I have a 10 step program for you and your brother.
1. Look at what you spend. This is constantly becoming easier to do. Credit cards and the like give you a digital log of every transaction you make or if doing it yourself is too hard services such as Mint will actually analyze the purchases using a feed from your credit card provider and will tell you what proportion of your income, how much per month on average and so forth you spend in certain fields, or at certain businesses.
2. Look at what you earn. If what you earn is > than what you spend, great.
3. Assign the dollars you earn to various jobs based upon the dollars you use, as worked out in 1. Pro rate one off expenses over the duration between them, for example an annual holiday can be broken up into 12 monthly expenses of 1/12th the holiday cost. Don't steal holiday dollars for going to a restaurant, if you already spent all your restaurant dollars for the month then you can't go to the restaurant.
4. Any unassigned dollars go into savings.
5. You shouldn't need to take dollars from savings because you already have dollars assigned for all the stuff planned.
6. Build an emergency fund with the saved dollars.
7. Time passes, your emergency fund is getting pretty big.
8. Invest the extra dollars above what you need for your emergency fund.
9. In a Vanguard account.
10. Don't use credit until this entire 10 step program is way too basic for you and you can disregard all of it.
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Well the temple of consumerism is having it's worst day in two decades. WMT down 9%. How many pension funds have them as their largest position?
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I'm very wealthy, I don't understand why everyone doesn't just do what I did:
1) Be born with an aptitude for mathematics.
2) Go to college for a highly technical degree.
3) Get a good paying job.
4) Inherit a house at the age of 29
5) Marry into a family richer than yours, benefiting from even more inheritance
6) Never have to work another day in your life.
It's really quite easy to get rich in America.
Realistically speaking, though, most Americans are either not equipped to accumulate wealth or are not interested enough in wealth to do the things necessary to acquire it. Much of that has to do with the economic system that is in place currently: it is not designed to benefit everyone equally regardless of ability or heritage.
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On October 15 2015 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Kwark, your perspective on the issue seems to be based on the fact that you have a natural affinity for finance and numbers, IMO. I brute forced my way through it with my limited abilities at finance. My brother, who repairs trucks for the military and hates balancing his check book, has no chance of feeling confident with any investment without assistance. Luckily he has family members who can help, but not everyone has that.
Consumerism is a problem, but the way the finical system operates and that they don’t market to the lower middle class and under educated is a big issue in the US. And that the government doesn’t push for savings and investment is also a problem.
What makes you think he has a natural affinity and instead didn't spend a lot of time trying to learn. Not being naturally good or interested in something isn't really a good excuse, especially with something as important as finances/their future. Go to investopedia, Morningstar forums, or grab a book. Basic investing is not so complicated that people can't figure it out, even if you just do something like throw al your money into a passively managed index fund and dont look at it for 20 years you're likely to be better off than never investing.
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On October 15 2015 00:54 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Kwark, your perspective on the issue seems to be based on the fact that you have a natural affinity for finance and numbers, IMO. I brute forced my way through it with my limited abilities at finance. My brother, who repairs trucks for the military and hates balancing his check book, has no chance of feeling confident with any investment without assistance. Luckily he has family members who can help, but not everyone has that.
Consumerism is a problem, but the way the finical system operates and that they don’t market to the lower middle class and under educated is a big issue in the US. And that the government doesn’t push for savings and investment is also a problem.
What makes you think he has a natural affinity and instead didn't spend a lot of time trying to learn. Not being naturally good or interested in something isn't really a good excuse, especially with something as important as finances/their future. Go to investopedia, Morningstar forums, or grab a book. Basic investing is not so complicated that people can't figure it out, even if you just do something like throw al your money into a passively managed index fund and dont look at it for 20 years you're likely to be better off than never investing.
Did you miss the part where I said I already had investments? I was speaking for others who learning this stuff was a huge struggle and I still think they are not confident with it. And they never would have done it without my assistance.
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On October 15 2015 00:54 MotherFox wrote:
I'm very wealthy, I don't understand why everyone doesn't just do what I did:
1) Be born with an aptitude for mathematics.
2) Go to college for a highly technical degree.
3) Get a good paying job.
4) Inherit a house at the age of 29
5) Marry into a family richer than yours, benefiting from even more inheritence
6) Never have to work another day in your life.
It's really quite easy to get rich in America.
Nobody says it is easy to get rich, but people continually fuck themselves over and then blame others.
Spend time actually studying, so many people talk about needing to go to a private school or having a natural affinity for something, but for the most part that is bullshit. How many people dos you see in school goofing off, not paying attention or taking notes, and not doing homework. These people are setting themselves up to fail and then blaming it on their brains not being wired for math/science.
Don't go to a 50k per year school when you can go to a 15-25k per year and get the same degree. If you're going for a degree with 0 ROI you are better off just not going unless you are already wealthy..
Quit blowing money on extravagant things if you can't afford it. New cars, motorcycles, new phones, TVs, etc.
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On October 15 2015 01:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 00:54 Chewbacca. wrote:On October 15 2015 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Kwark, your perspective on the issue seems to be based on the fact that you have a natural affinity for finance and numbers, IMO. I brute forced my way through it with my limited abilities at finance. My brother, who repairs trucks for the military and hates balancing his check book, has no chance of feeling confident with any investment without assistance. Luckily he has family members who can help, but not everyone has that.
Consumerism is a problem, but the way the finical system operates and that they don’t market to the lower middle class and under educated is a big issue in the US. And that the government doesn’t push for savings and investment is also a problem.
What makes you think he has a natural affinity and instead didn't spend a lot of time trying to learn. Not being naturally good or interested in something isn't really a good excuse, especially with something as important as finances/their future. Go to investopedia, Morningstar forums, or grab a book. Basic investing is not so complicated that people can't figure it out, even if you just do something like throw al your money into a passively managed index fund and dont look at it for 20 years you're likely to be better off than never investing. Did you miss the part where I said I already had investments? I was speaking for others who learning this stuff was a huge struggle and I still think they are not confident with it. And they never would have done it without my assistance.
I wasn't talking about you in particular. I'm talking about the people apparently like your brother. You can't just give up on things as important as your finances, not understanding or being introduced is no excuse, you have to spend time trying to learn.
Being born without and interest or affinity for something shouldn't be being used as an excuse, but motivation to work harder to get better..
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United States42693 Posts
On October 15 2015 00:54 MotherFox wrote:
I'm very wealthy, I don't understand why everyone doesn't just do what I did:
1) Be born with an aptitude for mathematics.
2) Go to college for a highly technical degree.
3) Get a good paying job.
4) Inherit a house at the age of 29
5) Marry into a family richer than yours, benefiting from even more inheritance
6) Never have to work another day in your life.
It's really quite easy to get rich in America.
Realistically speaking, though, most Americans are either not equipped to accumulate wealth or are not interested enough in wealth to do the things necessary to acquire it.
I earn less than the median wage, I've only been in America for 18 months and I struggled with immigration issues for over half of that, I didn't inherit a house and I have separate finances to my wife. I'll openly acknowledge my privilege, I'm white, male, intelligent and I look the part, when I interview for a job I look pretty much like the guy they planned to hire. Not everyone has that but other people have advantages, like not having to fight for the right to work, that I didn't have.
Ultimately though the system is not set up to give you a free ride if you weren't born to one. While it's unfair that the American system has effectively created an aristocracy that doesn't mean you have to accept a position at the bottom. The system isn't perfect, in many ways it's very dysfunctional, but life isn't going to wait for you while you fix it. You have to do what you can to work the system as it is while you try and improve it and for the vast majority of people struggling in America today there is more that you can do.
Hell, my wife and I knew an online nerd through video games who had been homeless (squatting with one friend or another until they kicked him out) and unemployed for the better part of a decade. He also had pretty crippling health issues. We fronted the money to get him to our state and help him restart his life and it turned out that 95% of his problems were self inflicted due to learned helplessness. Problems like being unable to get government aid due to no state ID, no state ID due to no fixed address and so forth, unable to get VA medical care due to lost DD214 and unable to get new one due to no valid ID, no bank account all could be fixed. It took a day or so of me calling around the various organizations that were involved, speaking to higher ups and finding out exactly what documents they needed and I successfully hacked the system. We used the expired documents we had to get the first document, the first to get the second, the first and second to get the third and so forth. He's now working and paying for himself and while it's unlikely I'll ever get the money that I fronted him back, and to be honest I resent the hell out of that because he could change that if he really tried, I was able to turn around a decade of learned helplessness, homelessness, unemployment and government aid in about 2 weeks.
The system is fucked. But this isn't a new system. You know the system is fucked. Everyone knows the system is fucked. The question is what are you going to do to work within the fucked system.
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On October 15 2015 01:06 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 00:54 MotherFox wrote:
I'm very wealthy, I don't understand why everyone doesn't just do what I did:
1) Be born with an aptitude for mathematics.
2) Go to college for a highly technical degree.
3) Get a good paying job.
4) Inherit a house at the age of 29
5) Marry into a family richer than yours, benefiting from even more inheritence
6) Never have to work another day in your life.
It's really quite easy to get rich in America. Nobody says it is easy to get rich, but people continually fuck themselves over and then blame others.
Well, I just said that.
Spend time actually studying, so many people talk about needing to go to a private school or having a natural affinity for something, but for the most part that is bullshit. How many people dos you see in school goofing off, not paying attention or taking notes, and not doing homework. These people are setting themselves up to fail and then blaming it on their brains not being wired for math/science.
I largely goofed off in school and didn't pay attention or take notes. On some level being smarter does afford you luxuries others do not have.
Don't go to a 50k per year school when you can go to a 15-25k per year and get the same degree. If you're going for a degree with 0 ROI you are better off just not going unless you are already wealthy..
Quit blowing money on extravagant things if you can't afford it. New cars, motorcycles, new phones, TVs, etc.
To make decisions like these, you would have to have an inclination to approach college and spending habits from an analytical cost/benefit point of view. Most people do not approach problems this way.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
saving money is easy when you are single and live in an area of low rent and cost of living.
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The system is fucked. But this isn't a new system. You know the system is fucked. Everyone knows the system is fucked. The question is what are you going to do to work within the fucked system.
Generally, I'm going to hope that someone comes up with a solution to the system.
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On October 15 2015 01:14 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 01:06 Chewbacca. wrote:On October 15 2015 00:54 MotherFox wrote:
I'm very wealthy, I don't understand why everyone doesn't just do what I did:
1) Be born with an aptitude for mathematics.
2) Go to college for a highly technical degree.
3) Get a good paying job.
4) Inherit a house at the age of 29
5) Marry into a family richer than yours, benefiting from even more inheritence
6) Never have to work another day in your life.
It's really quite easy to get rich in America. Nobody says it is easy to get rich, but people continually fuck themselves over and then blame others. Well, I just said that. Show nested quote +
Spend time actually studying, so many people talk about needing to go to a private school or having a natural affinity for something, but for the most part that is bullshit. How many people dos you see in school goofing off, not paying attention or taking notes, and not doing homework. These people are setting themselves up to fail and then blaming it on their brains not being wired for math/science.
I largely goofed off in school and didn't pay attention or take notes. On some level being smarter does afford you luxuries others do not have. Show nested quote +
Don't go to a 50k per year school when you can go to a 15-25k per year and get the same degree. If you're going for a degree with 0 ROI you are better off just not going unless you are already wealthy..
Quit blowing money on extravagant things if you can't afford it. New cars, motorcycles, new phones, TVs, etc.
To make decisions like these, you would have to have an inclination to approach college and spending habits from an analytical cost/benefit point of view. Most people do not approach problems this way.
Of course being naturally smart helps, but not being naturally smart shouldn't be an excuse but motivation to try harder or your just ducking yourself for the future. You can't just give up or make other bad decisions and blame others. Everyone has certain weakness, your not unique in your struggles.
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On October 15 2015 01:10 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 01:00 Plansix wrote:On October 15 2015 00:54 Chewbacca. wrote:On October 15 2015 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Kwark, your perspective on the issue seems to be based on the fact that you have a natural affinity for finance and numbers, IMO. I brute forced my way through it with my limited abilities at finance. My brother, who repairs trucks for the military and hates balancing his check book, has no chance of feeling confident with any investment without assistance. Luckily he has family members who can help, but not everyone has that.
Consumerism is a problem, but the way the finical system operates and that they don’t market to the lower middle class and under educated is a big issue in the US. And that the government doesn’t push for savings and investment is also a problem.
What makes you think he has a natural affinity and instead didn't spend a lot of time trying to learn. Not being naturally good or interested in something isn't really a good excuse, especially with something as important as finances/their future. Go to investopedia, Morningstar forums, or grab a book. Basic investing is not so complicated that people can't figure it out, even if you just do something like throw al your money into a passively managed index fund and dont look at it for 20 years you're likely to be better off than never investing. Did you miss the part where I said I already had investments? I was speaking for others who learning this stuff was a huge struggle and I still think they are not confident with it. And they never would have done it without my assistance. I wasn't talking about you in particular. I'm talking about the people apparently like your brother. You can't just give up on things as important as your finances, not understanding or being introduced is no excuse, you have to spend time trying to learn.
That is sound advice, but people should also eat healthy, work out and not smoke. But not all those things happen. My brother, for instance, works for the military and pulls about 60 hours a week while owning a house. And as a home owner myself, houses take a up a lot of time. For the average person, investing is something they would like to do, but the barrier to entry prevents them.
The simple fact Americans are not saving as much as they should. You can shake your fist and complain about consumerism and how dumb people are. That they are lazy and should try harder to learn these things. None of these are wrong, but they also don't really do anything but make you feel superior and nor knowledgeable. Or you can look at how the US culture got away from saving and why that took place. What holds people back from investing and how to reduce that friction. And figure out how to get back to a place where people in the US save more.
Or we can just bash Americans for being spend happy. I'm all about America bashing most of the time.
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On October 15 2015 01:19 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +
The system is fucked. But this isn't a new system. You know the system is fucked. Everyone knows the system is fucked. The question is what are you going to do to work within the fucked system.
Generally, I'm going to hope that someone comes up with a solution to the system.
That is the problem. People keep relying on others to fix things for them instead of taking their life into their own hands.
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On October 15 2015 01:22 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 01:19 MotherFox wrote:
The system is fucked. But this isn't a new system. You know the system is fucked. Everyone knows the system is fucked. The question is what are you going to do to work within the fucked system.
Generally, I'm going to hope that someone comes up with a solution to the system. That is the problem. People keep relying on others to fix things for them instead of taking their life into their own hands.
Strictly speaking, I'm waiting for someone else to solve other people's problems. Like I said, I am one of the lucky ones.
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United States42693 Posts
On October 15 2015 01:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2015 01:10 Chewbacca. wrote:On October 15 2015 01:00 Plansix wrote:On October 15 2015 00:54 Chewbacca. wrote:On October 15 2015 00:22 Plansix wrote:
Kwark, your perspective on the issue seems to be based on the fact that you have a natural affinity for finance and numbers, IMO. I brute forced my way through it with my limited abilities at finance. My brother, who repairs trucks for the military and hates balancing his check book, has no chance of feeling confident with any investment without assistance. Luckily he has family members who can help, but not everyone has that.
Consumerism is a problem, but the way the finical system operates and that they don’t market to the lower middle class and under educated is a big issue in the US. And that the government doesn’t push for savings and investment is also a problem.
What makes you think he has a natural affinity and instead didn't spend a lot of time trying to learn. Not being naturally good or interested in something isn't really a good excuse, especially with something as important as finances/their future. Go to investopedia, Morningstar forums, or grab a book. Basic investing is not so complicated that people can't figure it out, even if you just do something like throw al your money into a passively managed index fund and dont look at it for 20 years you're likely to be better off than never investing. Did you miss the part where I said I already had investments? I was speaking for others who learning this stuff was a huge struggle and I still think they are not confident with it. And they never would have done it without my assistance. s I wasn't talking about you in particular. I'm talking about the people apparently like your brother. You can't just give up on things as important as your finances, not understanding or being introduced is no excuse, you have to spend time trying to learn. That is sound advice, but people should also eat healthy, work out and not smoke. But not all those things happen. My brother, for instance, works for the military and pulls about 60 hours a week while owning a house. And as a home owner myself, houses take a up a lot of time. For the average person, investing is something they would like to do, but the barrier to entry prevents them. The simple fact Americans are not saving as much as they should. You can shake your fist and complain about consumerism and how dumb people are. That they are lazy and should try harder to learn these things. None of these are wrong, but they also don't really do anything but make you feel superior and nor knowledgeable. Or you can look at how the US culture got away from saving and why that took place. What holds people back from investing and how to reduce that friction. And figure out how to get back to a place where people in the US save more. Or we can just bash Americans for being spend happy. I'm all about America bashing most of the time.
Again the barrier for entry can be overcome by spending just the time you're on the toilet doing research on your phone. Or you can ask someone like myself and I'll say "Vanguard Target Date funds" and now the barrier has been overcome. Get money, put it in Vanguard Target Date funds.
Personally I think the problem started when spending, rather than earning, became the indicator of social status. You have to become a doctor or a successful business owner to earn like a doctor or a successful business owner but you don't have to quit your job as a receptionist to spend like one. And from the outside it's easy to confuse the two. There's an awful lot of momentum to the entire scam now with planned obsolescence built into everything, from phones to cars and even the concept of a "starter home" because obviously a home that fits your needs is only a placeholder until you have more money and can get a greater home that surpasses your needs. Humans typically base what they do on what everyone around them is doing and debt has become the new normal. It's a sickness but on a small level bitching about it and how easy it is to get out of it on an individual level does work. I can't solve America as a whole but I can help an individual American.
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On October 15 2015 01:19 oneofthem wrote:
saving money is easy when you are single and live in an area of low rent and cost of living.
And life is great. Just play video games and work.
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United States42693 Posts
It's pretty great when you're married, two incomes no kids in a low cost of living area. It lowers the already low cost of living, makes cooking your own meals better and you get an awesome roommate. Would recommend.
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On October 15 2015 00:16 xDaunt wrote:
I don't see how complete degeneration of the Middle East enhances American security. America's withdrawal has created a huge vacuum of power over there. Instead of the US calling the shots, the Russians, Iranians, Saudis, and Turks have moved in, creating a new, inherently volatile, multi-polar power structure, in which none of these entities have benign interests in mind, must less America's interests. In short, classically Western, liberal influence as all but disappeared in the Middle East -- and perhaps for good. I'm not going to pretend that Western influence was always a good thing, but there is simply no debating that it was better than what's coming.
I was just scrolling through here to see if anyone was commenting on Huckabee's debate tweets, and came across this and just felt I need to mention this. While the US has drawn down dramatically from Iraq and Afghanistan, it seems a poor choice of words to cite an American "withdrawal". The US still maintains a very significant military presence in the area that allows it to mess with players in the region to great effect, and that won't change anytime soon. See here: en.wikipedia.org, not to mention that this includes the might of the 5th fleet.
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With regards to the debate,
I think Biden is officially out. Last night's debate was Sanders hoping that Clinton would do poorly enough that he or Biden could take over. Clinton did great. She was energetic, got a lot of great points in and overall conveyed a ton of confidence and capability. She has such a solid image of being the "stable, strong, reasonable" candidate that it was gonna take a lot for her to lose to the more wild Sanders. Biden has no opening at this point. He's officially out IMO.
I also can't list a single person who I have talked to who supports the idea of free college. Clinton comes closest to being reasonable by saying with 10 hours per week of work. I think free college is a really silly thing to prop up. Democrats need to jump off that boat real quick. Shut the fuck up about it, Sanders.
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EPT
