EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2010
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
propose your own lifetime wealth accumulation curve and give the wealth distribution of that society if you have a better idea. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 29 2015 08:53 Chocolate wrote: You're not bringing anything up in particular. Most tax breaks and subsidies exist for good reason. Many of them exist to encourage investing in renewable energy, biodiesel, education, home ownership (this one's a little fucked up because IMO housing doesn't need to be seen as an investment per se), retirement savings to help people reduce expenses and earn more over the long term. You can't just bash on something and not say why it's messed up. I'm going to assume this is correct, because I don't want to look far. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxbreaks/2014/visualization/ 1. Employee Sponsored Healthcare: Bad-Very Bad. Prevents employee mobility, prevents people from understanding the true cost of healthcare, reduces personalization in insurance plans, encourages over-insurance. 2. Capital Gains and Dividends: Good (Potential Bad). But only because of the corporate income tax. Would be reduced/eliminated in ideal world, simply because there would be no corporate tax. 3. Employer retirement Plans: Neutral-Bad. Typically limits choices. Causes short term liquidity issues often because of penalties for early withdrawal. Also schizophrenic with Social Security/Medicare. 4/5. Imputed Rental/Home Mortgage: Actually the same, mostly. Encourages home ownership, which reduces mobility, reduces liquidity, encourages speculation, and creates unbalanced investment portfolios (1 property in 1 economic area...hard to get any LESS balanced). 6. Corporate income aboard: Good. Should be no corporate income tax, see 2. 7. Accelerated Depreciation: Good. See 2. 8. Charitable contributions: Neutral-Bad. often used to evade other laws, particularly regarding corruption. Not that charity is bad, but a lot of it goes to vanity/activism projects like theaters and ACLU/Cato, etc. 9. State and Local Tax Deductions: Very Bad-Terrible. Encourages bad state fiscal policy. 10. Capital Gains on Home Sales: Bad. Similar to 4. Also has a lock-in effect where once you own a property you are tax-disadvantaged to return to renting. On May 29 2015 09:10 IgnE wrote: What are you talking about? What is a more sensical graph according to you? I think your hypothetical is meaningless. My hypothetical was just to illustrate the absurdity of the Mother Jones "ideal distribution" survey by showing in a society formed of equal people doing the same thing it still wasn't even true. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On May 29 2015 09:43 cLutZ wrote: I'm going to assume this is correct, because I don't want to look far. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxbreaks/2014/visualization/ 1. Employee Sponsored Healthcare: Bad-Very Bad. Prevents employee mobility, prevents people from understanding the true cost of healthcare, reduces personalization in insurance plans, encourages over-insurance. 2. Capital Gains and Dividends: Good (Potential Bad). But only because of the corporate income tax. Would be reduced/eliminated in ideal world, simply because there would be no corporate tax. 3. Employer retirement Plans: Neutral-Bad. Typically limits choices. Causes short term liquidity issues often because of penalties for early withdrawal. Also schizophrenic with Social Security/Medicare. 4/5. Imputed Rental/Home Mortgage: Actually the same, mostly. Encourages home ownership, which reduces mobility, reduces liquidity, encourages speculation, and creates unbalanced investment portfolios (1 property in 1 economic area...hard to get any LESS balanced). 6. Corporate income aboard: Good. Should be no corporate income tax, see 2. 7. Accelerated Depreciation: Good. See 2. 8. Charitable contributions: Neutral-Bad. often used to evade other laws, particularly regarding corruption. Not that charity is bad, but a lot of it goes to vanity/activism projects like theaters and ACLU/Cato, etc. 9. State and Local Tax Deductions: Very Bad-Terrible. Encourages bad state fiscal policy. 10. Capital Gains on Home Sales: Bad. Similar to 4. Also has a lock-in effect where once you own a property you are tax-disadvantaged to return to renting. My hypothetical was just to illustrate the absurdity of the Mother Jones "ideal distribution" survey by showing in a society formed of equal people doing the same thing it still wasn't even true. It wasn't a Mother Jones survey it was a Harvard Business school prof and Duke. MJ just found out about it. EDIT: Regardless it's not like the one we have now is the only possible one. It's also obvious the overwhelming majority of Americans want a different one than we have. So it shouldn't be a class warfare issue to talk about how we can arrive at a more even distribution (even if it's not ideal). We know income is only a small piece of that puzzle though, so things like the estate tax have to be considered. Without getting people like ref to think it's going to impact him. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
All realistic wealth distributions are even less equal, which is what I said in the assumptions section of the hypothetical. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On May 29 2015 10:13 cLutZ wrote: I created a more equal society than exists in the world, and showed that it had a less equal distribution than the "desirable" distribution from the survey. All realistic wealth distributions are even less equal, which is what I said in the assumptions section of the hypothetical. I'm not sure what you're saying but we have already had better (more equal) wealth distributions just within living memory? | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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KwarK
United States44439 Posts
On May 29 2015 10:01 GreenHorizons wrote: It wasn't a Mother Jones survey it was a Harvard Business school prof and Duke. MJ just found out about it. EDIT: Regardless it's not like the one we have now is the only possible one. It's also obvious the overwhelming majority of Americans want a different one than we have. So it shouldn't be a class warfare issue to talk about how we can arrive at a more even distribution (even if it's not ideal). We know income is only a small piece of that puzzle though, so things like the estate tax have to be considered. Without getting people like ref to think it's going to impact him. Taxes on estates over 5 million? Dude, ref already pays enough in taxes. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 29 2015 10:18 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm not sure what you're saying but we have already had better (more equal) wealth distributions just within living memory? Than America currently, or than in my Hypo? I'm particularly interested in the society that's Top 20% has wealth that is only 3x what the bottom 20% has (Survey) or actually, even the Top 20% having 9x the Bottom 20% (my Hypo). On May 29 2015 10:25 IgnE wrote: Let's assume that these robots reproduce, for example, so that they don't all die out in one generation, and that they must consume wealth on young robots who don't produce any. Please do construct your new robot model. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
Let's look at wealth distributions in Valencia in 1935. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On May 29 2015 09:14 farvacola wrote: I fucking love how Cruz uses the word "statutory" as a cover for "I'm bending over backwards so far that my nose is in my colon." On an unrelated note, the state of Michigan doesn't think TL is work appropriate  I mean, Texas crying and running to uncle Sam when something bad happens is nothing new. Heck, Texas has had a net inflow of money from the Fed for most of it's history IIRC. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
http://harvardmagazine.com/2015/05/the-science-of-scarcity tldr: poverty and the struggle to pay for everything exerts a considerable mental drain which weakens people's ability to do other tasks, such as long term planning. Not a perfect tldr as its not easy to summarize, and if you have objections, make sure you've read the article. | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + yesterday one guy from facebook groups (uni graduate) were trolling the thread and they kicked him. i saw his messages very late and commented on the post he trolled people: its 2015 what stupid would troll with parody accounts. several hours later he messaged me that he will f*** my mother, f**ck me and threatened me, i flamed back and gave my number saying say these to my face (i know im a flamer) so he called me, he wanted me to meet with him in an abandoned place over and over again but i said come-nearby a school entrance where we both are close, he said ok ill kill you. i went there with couple of friends, called him, said raise your hand, he raised his hands n put my phone in my pocket, punched his ugly face 1-2 times. his friends attacked me but they were trying to hold me mostly, no punches or kicks, they tried to bend my arm etc. that a*hole tried to punch me while his friends are taking me away but i juked his punch and punched him back. later on some folks from school came there and stopped us saying guys guys guys please talk, fix this by talking. i said if you had not threatened me i would even delete my comment but you said you will kill me, here i am, he said im a little kid and he will find me again. at that moment students from the school started to get angry at guys threatenings and pushed him back "go away bro you are not human" etc. AT THAT VERY MOMENT, he pulled his wallet off and raised his police badge, it was not a fake one. (saw his gun next to it also) "IM A POLICE ON YOUR KNEES ASSHOLES" .... His friends were also police men, but students (around 15-20 black-white mixed) refused to listen him and shout at him IF YOU ARE POLICE WE ARE REVOLUTIONARY FRONT M**F**KER and they began to push him back by almost hitting his face, he realized he will be beaten to death, jumped his car, and left. Students came and asked me what happened, they said you are right nothing will happen, they walked with me couple of blocks and farewell....WTF. I cant still believe... I did fight a lot of guys who threatened me before but not with a cop! With the aid of unknown lefties, never..... So my question is, there could be any problem for me? Should i find a lawyer? Set a claymore on my backdoor? Leave the town? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On May 29 2015 13:01 lastpuritan wrote: its not about politics but i have one question, + Show Spoiler + yesterday one guy from facebook groups (uni graduate) were trolling the thread and they kicked him. i saw his messages very late and commented on the post he trolled people: its 2015 what stupid would troll with parody accounts. several hours later he messaged me that he will f*** my mother, f**ck me and threatened me, i flamed back and gave my number saying say these to my face (i know im a flamer) so he called me, he wanted me to meet with him in an abandoned place over and over again but i said come-nearby a school entrance where we both are close, he said ok ill kill you. i went there with couple of friends, called him, said raise your hand, he raised his hands n put my phone in my pocket, punched his ugly face 1-2 times. his friends attacked me but they were trying to hold me mostly, no punches or kicks, they tried to bend my arm etc. that a*hole tried to punch me while his friends are taking me away but i juked his punch and punched him back. later on some folks from school came there and stopped us saying guys guys guys please talk, fix this by talking. i said if you had not threatened me i would even delete my comment but you said you will kill me, here i am, he said im a little kid and he will find me again. at that moment students from the school started to get angry at guys threatenings and pushed him back "go away bro you are not human" etc. AT THAT VERY MOMENT, he pulled his wallet off and raised his police badge, it was not a fake one. (saw his gun next to it also) "IM A POLICE ON YOUR KNEES ASSHOLES" .... His friends were also police men, but students (around 15-20 black-white mixed) refused to listen him and shout at him IF YOU ARE POLICE WE ARE REVOLUTIONARY FRONT M**F**KER and they began to push him back by almost hitting his face, he realized he will be beaten to death, jumped his car, and left. Students came and asked me what happened, they said you are right nothing will happen, they walked with me couple of blocks and farewell....WTF. I cant still believe... I did fight a lot of guys who threatened me before but not with a cop! With the aid of unknown lefties, never..... So my question is, there could be any problem for me? Should i find a lawyer? Set a claymore on my backdoor? Leave the town? If he was a legit cop then you're going to get harassed hard by his friends, unless they end up laughing at him for getting punked by some college kids. Could of just been a Zimmerman type with a badge though. It's not hard to get a legit looking badge and a gun. Not intended to be legal advice If it was in Washington it would of been 100% legal though. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On May 29 2015 12:01 zlefin wrote: This article is quite interesting imho, albeit a long read: http://harvardmagazine.com/2015/05/the-science-of-scarcity tldr: poverty and the struggle to pay for everything exerts a considerable mental drain which weakens people's ability to do other tasks, such as long term planning. Not a perfect tldr as its not easy to summarize, and if you have objections, make sure you've read the article. The article is fine and whatever, but this is beyond obvious. Anyone here operating under different assumptions has a pretty bad model of how people actually operate. | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On May 29 2015 13:01 lastpuritan wrote: its not about politics but i have one question, + Show Spoiler + yesterday one guy from facebook groups (uni graduate) were trolling the thread and they kicked him. i saw his messages very late and commented on the post he trolled people: its 2015 what stupid would troll with parody accounts. several hours later he messaged me that he will f*** my mother, f**ck me and threatened me, i flamed back and gave my number saying say these to my face (i know im a flamer) so he called me, he wanted me to meet with him in an abandoned place over and over again but i said come-nearby a school entrance where we both are close, he said ok ill kill you. i went there with couple of friends, called him, said raise your hand, he raised his hands n put my phone in my pocket, punched his ugly face 1-2 times. his friends attacked me but they were trying to hold me mostly, no punches or kicks, they tried to bend my arm etc. that a*hole tried to punch me while his friends are taking me away but i juked his punch and punched him back. later on some folks from school came there and stopped us saying guys guys guys please talk, fix this by talking. i said if you had not threatened me i would even delete my comment but you said you will kill me, here i am, he said im a little kid and he will find me again. at that moment students from the school started to get angry at guys threatenings and pushed him back "go away bro you are not human" etc. AT THAT VERY MOMENT, he pulled his wallet off and raised his police badge, it was not a fake one. (saw his gun next to it also) "IM A POLICE ON YOUR KNEES ASSHOLES" .... His friends were also police men, but students (around 15-20 black-white mixed) refused to listen him and shout at him IF YOU ARE POLICE WE ARE REVOLUTIONARY FRONT M**F**KER and they began to push him back by almost hitting his face, he realized he will be beaten to death, jumped his car, and left. Students came and asked me what happened, they said you are right nothing will happen, they walked with me couple of blocks and farewell....WTF. I cant still believe... I did fight a lot of guys who threatened me before but not with a cop! With the aid of unknown lefties, never..... So my question is, there could be any problem for me? Should i find a lawyer? Set a claymore on my backdoor? Leave the town? Save the logs, report him. If he threatened you and arranged the meeting he's not doing a very good job as a cop. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Well he can, but it's not exactly legal and your burden of proof is pretty low. What kind of cop makes a parody account and trolls people on the internet... | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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