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On May 29 2015 05:22 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 05:07 ref4 wrote:On May 29 2015 05:01 KwarK wrote:On May 29 2015 04:10 ref4 wrote:
I am already paying $500 in taxes every paycheck ($2500 -> $2000) I honestly will kill the candidate that promises to raise taxes.
I am probably gonna get FBI/NSA'ed for this post but w/e. I honestly don't understand how you Europeans are okay with paying so much taxes (what is it like 50-60% income tax over there or something?) Unless even your minimum wage jobs pay like $5000 a month or something. How often are you paid? I'm trying to work out your gross pretax here but it's entirely possible that the problem you are describing is called "your withholding is set too high" or possibly "use the damn tax credits built for you". Either way, the tax raises being discussed here aren't for you and won't impact you. One of the remarkable things I've noticed about the United States is the vast number of people who currently owe, or at the very least ought not to owe if they used the credits built for them, who insist that they're paying too much in tax and that taxes should be lowered for the people not them who currently pay the tax on their behalf. I get paid biweekly ($1250 every 2 weeks, $2500 a month, $30,000 a year before taxes). The federal income tax % for my bracket is 15%, which is okay, but I also have to pay state tax, medicare tax and social security. Fuck taxes. Okay. Let's assume your highest tax scenario, you're filing alone, no dependents, unmarried. In this situation you have the fewest tax bonuses because your money is just supporting you so you don't need them. So you're naturally in the highest bracket. You're making $30,000 pretax. You have a $6,300 standard deduction and a $4,000 exemption for yourself. That brings your taxable income down to a more manageable $19,700 which should come out at $2,494 tax in a year. So your withholding is set too high. But wait, we can do more. That 3% 401k match you get at work, put $75 bucks a month into that. Firstly you get free money in your 401k, totaling $900 a year, but also we can start working on the Saver's Credit. You see with your income the government is actually going to offer you a free 50% match on any money you save in the form of a non refundable credit up to $1000. We just need to get your AGI a bit lower. Let's make a $455 monthly tIRA contribution and put another $475 into our 401k each month. Your AGI is now $17,940. That's your new gross income as far as the IRS is concerned. So we take out your $10,300 to find your taxable income, it's now $7,640. That's in the 10% bracket so you pay $764 tax on that. Then you say "Mr IRS, I'm eligible for the full 50% match on the Saver's Credit, I'd like $1000 back in taxes. Your tax burden is 0. If it's any higher then it's by choice. And even if your taxes were the highest they could possibly be with current tax rates the most you could owe would be $2,494 in 2015. That's not $500 a month. That's not even close. Fix your damn withholding, learn to count and realize that you don't owe a damn thing in taxes. You are the poor. You are the working class. You are the people who they're trying to help. These higher taxes aren't for you. These tax incentives to the working poor who save money are the things that are for you. For fucks sake America. Teach your kids to count so they're not on the internet and complaining about high taxes and the gubmint before someone has to take them aside and explain to them that they're the working poor who don't owe any taxes and who live off the taxes on the rich. Also I literally just earned you $3,400 if you follow my advice. Also fucking go back to school. You can literally spend $2,500 on education this year getting a part time associates degree or doing an online bachelors and then use the educational credits to offset your entire tax burden to leave you paying effectively nothing for your education. The people in Washington are trying so, so hard to help you here. They're taxing you at almost nothing and they're offering to take away the remaining taxes in exchange for you funding your retirement or going to school or doing fucking anything and you can't even be bothered to fix your damn withholding. You're literally complaining about paying too much in tax, not because your tax rate is too high but because you keep sending them too much in tax and forcing them to send it back to you with a note that reads "stop sending us so much money". This isn't a tax rate problem. This is a you problem.
Preach! Brother KwarK! That shit should be sticky'd or something. I'm going to PM you some questions about something I'm working on and I think you mentioned before.
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On May 29 2015 05:22 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 05:07 ref4 wrote:On May 29 2015 05:01 KwarK wrote:On May 29 2015 04:10 ref4 wrote:
I am already paying $500 in taxes every paycheck ($2500 -> $2000) I honestly will kill the candidate that promises to raise taxes.
I am probably gonna get FBI/NSA'ed for this post but w/e. I honestly don't understand how you Europeans are okay with paying so much taxes (what is it like 50-60% income tax over there or something?) Unless even your minimum wage jobs pay like $5000 a month or something. How often are you paid? I'm trying to work out your gross pretax here but it's entirely possible that the problem you are describing is called "your withholding is set too high" or possibly "use the damn tax credits built for you". Either way, the tax raises being discussed here aren't for you and won't impact you. One of the remarkable things I've noticed about the United States is the vast number of people who currently owe, or at the very least ought not to owe if they used the credits built for them, who insist that they're paying too much in tax and that taxes should be lowered for the people not them who currently pay the tax on their behalf. I get paid biweekly ($1250 every 2 weeks, $2500 a month, $30,000 a year before taxes). The federal income tax % for my bracket is 15%, which is okay, but I also have to pay state tax, medicare tax and social security. Fuck taxes. Okay. Let's assume your highest tax scenario, you're filing alone, no dependents, unmarried. In this situation you have the fewest tax bonuses because your money is just supporting you so you don't need them. So you're naturally in the highest bracket. You're making $30,000 pretax. You have a $6,300 standard deduction and a $4,000 exemption for yourself. That brings your taxable income down to a more manageable $19,700 which should come out at $2,494 tax in a year. So your withholding is set too high. But wait, we can do more. That 3% 401k match you get at work, put $75 bucks a month into that. Firstly you get free money in your 401k, totaling $900 a year, but also we can start working on the Saver's Credit. You see with your income the government is actually going to offer you a free 50% match on any money you save in the form of a non refundable credit up to $1000. We just need to get your AGI a bit lower. Let's make a $455 monthly tIRA contribution and put another $475 into our 401k each month. Your AGI is now $17,940. That's your new gross income as far as the IRS is concerned. So we take out your $10,300 to find your taxable income, it's now $7,640. That's in the 10% bracket so you pay $764 tax on that. Then you say "Mr IRS, I'm eligible for the full 50% match on the Saver's Credit, I'd like $1000 back in taxes. Your tax burden is 0. If it's any higher then it's by choice. And even if your taxes were the highest they could possibly be with current tax rates the most you could owe would be $2,494 in 2015. That's not $500 a month. That's not even close. Fix your damn withholding, learn to count and realize that you don't owe a damn thing in taxes. You are the poor. You are the working class. You are the people who they're trying to help. These higher taxes aren't for you. These tax incentives to the working poor who save money are the things that are for you. For fucks sake America. Teach your kids to count so they're not on the internet and complaining about high taxes and the gubmint before someone has to take them aside and explain to them that they're the working poor who don't owe any taxes and who live off the taxes on the rich. Also I literally just earned you $3,400 if you follow my advice. Also fucking go back to school. You can literally spend $2,500 on education this year getting a part time associates degree or doing an online bachelors and then use the educational credits to offset your entire tax burden to leave you paying effective nothing for your education. The people in Washington are trying so, so hard to help you here. They're taxing you at almost nothing and they're offering to take away the remaining taxes in exchange for you funding your retirement or going to school or doing fucking anything and you can't even be bothered to fix your damn withholding. You're literally complaining about paying too much in tax, not because your tax rate is too high but because you keep sending them too much in tax and forcing them to send it back to you with a note that reads "stop sending us so much money". This isn't a tax rate problem. This is a you problem.
Thanks for the financial advice but honestly I wouldn't know a tenth of that if I don't have a degree in finance/accounting/economics (which I assume you do?). The tax law is convoluted as it is.
I don't want to go back to school to get some associates degree because I already have a master's degree in biochemistry. I am lucky to land this job I currently have (well I did got another job offer at $35,000 but I already relocated for the first job). Right now I am just working for a couple of years to get some papers published for my PI and (hopefully) move up and land a job in the industry.
And for the record I could give a shit's ass how much the rich, the other working poor, the middle class etc. gets taxed I still hate being taxed. I am already paying taxes with every single purchase at the store and every meal I order already.
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United States42008 Posts
Then just save for retirement. That's all they're asking you to do. That's the deal. You put money aside for retirement and they give you 50 cents on the dollar back in tax for every dollar you save. Like I said, they're trying so, so hard to help you here and you're complaining that your taxes are too high.
Also, in case you didn't know, your withholding is how much of your income the IRS takes out of each check to cover your tax burden at the end of the year. What you can do is work out how much you'll owe in taxes ($2,494) and tell them that you'd like to just pay $208 in Federal taxes each month. If you don't fix your withholding then they end up taking too much money and then giving you the extra money back in the form of a refund.
Also I get that the sales tax sucks for you. It sucks for all of the working poor because it is a flat rate tax on money you spend. People like you and me will have to spend a large portion of our income on food, housing, commuting and so forth just to get by. People who earn way more will be spending roughly the same absolute amount on these things, but a much lower proportion of their income. It's like an extra tax on the first $15k you earn, devastating for the working poor who might only earn $20-25k but not a big chunk out of an income of $100k. Make sense? Especially when you realize that things like stocks are exempt from sales tax (that's what the intergenerational rich buy) and capital gains from those stocks are taxed at a lower rate than your $30k.
Fortunately there is a party out there who understands that shit like flat sales taxes fuck the poor over completely while leaving the rich paying an effectively lower tax rate (in sales tax at least) than their pool boys. That's the party who would like to raise taxes on the rich, a group you are not a member of.
Also the thing that Bernie Sanders said that had people up in arms last week? A 0.5% sales tax on stocks. That was apparently obscenely high and devastating to the wealth of America but a 7.5% tax on your cheeseburger, something that you need to buy because humans actually have to eat food to live, that's fine.
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I think its terrible that as a country basic tax, personal finance, loan, and investment information isn't a part of the mandatory high school curriculum.
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On May 29 2015 05:45 Trainrunnef wrote:
I think its terrible that as a country basic tax, personal finance, loan, and investment information isn't a part of the mandatory high school curriculum.
Is it anywhere in the world?
For all the stuff school should teach you they sure don't teach anyone anywhere how to handle finances.
Its up to a tired Brit to rage at young guys to get their shit sorted. Watch that blood pressure Kwark :p
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United States42008 Posts
On May 29 2015 05:45 Trainrunnef wrote:
I think its terrible that as a country basic tax, personal finance, loan, and investment information isn't a part of the mandatory high school curriculum.
As I said last time this came up, keeping the drones buying is pretty much the ultimate vested interest.
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On May 29 2015 05:44 KwarK wrote:
Then just save for retirement. That's all they're asking you to do. That's the deal. You put money aside for retirement and they give you 50 cents on the dollar back in tax for every dollar you save. Like I said, they're trying so, so hard to help you here and you're complaining that your taxes are too high.
Also, in case you didn't know, your withholding is how of your income the IRS takes out of each check to cover your tax burden at the end of the year. What you can do is work out how much you'll owe in taxes ($2,494) and tell them that you'd like to just pay $208 in Federal taxes each month. If you don't fix your withholding then they end up taking too much money and then giving you the extra money back in the form of a refund.
Also I get that the sales tax sucks for you. It sucks for all of the working poor because it is a flat rate tax on money you spend. People like you and me will have to spend a large portion of our income on food, housing, commuting and so forth just to get by. People who earn way more will be spending roughly the same absolute amount on these things, but a much lower proportion of their income. It's like an extra tax on the first $15k you earn, devastating for the working poor who might only earn $20-25k but not a big chunk out of an income of $100k. Make sense? Especially when you realize that things like stocks are exempt from sales tax (that's what the intergenerational rich buy) and capital gains from those stocks are taxed at a lower rate than your $30k.
Fortunately there is a party out there who understands that shit like flat sales taxes fuck the poor over completely while leaving the rich paying an effectively lower tax rate (in sales tax at least) than their pool boys. That's the party who would like to raise taxes on the rich, a group you are not a member of.
Also the thing that Bernie Sanders said that had people up in arms last week? A 0.5% sales tax on stocks. That was apparently obscenely high and devastating to the wealth of America but a 7.5% tax on your cheeseburger, something that you need to buy because humans actually have to eat food to live, that's fine.
if Bernie can eliminate all sales tax and put my income tax down to 1% by enforcing a 90% income tax on anyone that makes over 400K a year just like the good ol' days of 1960's I am all for it.
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United States42008 Posts
Basically if the evil Socialist Bernie Sanders got his way then the flat tax on mandatory consumption for the working poor would be only 15x as high as the flat tax on income generating investments for the rich. But he won't get his way because that'd be Socialism. The tax on buying stocks must remain 0%.
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I was under the impression that putting money in 401ks only defers the taxes until you withdraw the money during retirement. Is this correct?
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United States42008 Posts
On May 29 2015 05:57 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 05:44 KwarK wrote:
Then just save for retirement. That's all they're asking you to do. That's the deal. You put money aside for retirement and they give you 50 cents on the dollar back in tax for every dollar you save. Like I said, they're trying so, so hard to help you here and you're complaining that your taxes are too high.
Also, in case you didn't know, your withholding is how of your income the IRS takes out of each check to cover your tax burden at the end of the year. What you can do is work out how much you'll owe in taxes ($2,494) and tell them that you'd like to just pay $208 in Federal taxes each month. If you don't fix your withholding then they end up taking too much money and then giving you the extra money back in the form of a refund.
Also I get that the sales tax sucks for you. It sucks for all of the working poor because it is a flat rate tax on money you spend. People like you and me will have to spend a large portion of our income on food, housing, commuting and so forth just to get by. People who earn way more will be spending roughly the same absolute amount on these things, but a much lower proportion of their income. It's like an extra tax on the first $15k you earn, devastating for the working poor who might only earn $20-25k but not a big chunk out of an income of $100k. Make sense? Especially when you realize that things like stocks are exempt from sales tax (that's what the intergenerational rich buy) and capital gains from those stocks are taxed at a lower rate than your $30k.
Fortunately there is a party out there who understands that shit like flat sales taxes fuck the poor over completely while leaving the rich paying an effectively lower tax rate (in sales tax at least) than their pool boys. That's the party who would like to raise taxes on the rich, a group you are not a member of.
Also the thing that Bernie Sanders said that had people up in arms last week? A 0.5% sales tax on stocks. That was apparently obscenely high and devastating to the wealth of America but a 7.5% tax on your cheeseburger, something that you need to buy because humans actually have to eat food to live, that's fine. if Bernie can eliminate all sales tax and put my income tax down to 1% by enforcing a 90% income tax on anyone that makes over 400K a year just like the good ol' days of 1960's I am all for it.
It wouldn't have to be anything like 90%. Bernie's proposal of taking 0.5% on stock purchases was meant to pay for America to go to university, for example.
You have to understand that you do not, and most likely will never, pay shit in taxes because you do not, and most likely will never, have much worth taxing. You won't ever see much real money. Hardly anyone does. The taxes the government makes on you, and a hundred million other Americans like you, don't collectively amount to shit because none of you have much money. You don't have to tax the super rich especially highly to create a huge reduction in the effective tax rate of the poor.
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Textbook American voting against their own interests lol. I blame the vocational education system. Maybe Obama's increased focus on math and critical thinking will bear some fruit in the future.
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United States42008 Posts
On May 29 2015 06:01 Cowboy64 wrote:
I was under the impression that putting money in 401ks only defers the taxes until you withdraw the money during retirement. Is this correct?
It defers the taxes to a time of your choosing, but yes, broadly speaking. However you can game the hell out of this system because you are allowed to turn 401ks into tIRAs and to move money from tIRAs to ROTHs. A tIRA to ROTH is a taxable act but you can choose when you want to do this.
For example last year my wife and I had an effective negative tax rate and unused non refundable tax credits. What this meant was that the government was willing to give us more tax back than we actually paid in tax. This would have enabled us to generate some taxable activity, such as realizing some capital gains or doing a tIRA to ROTH conversion, tax free. When I take super early retirement to be around in the formative years of my children's life the same situation would apply, the government would let me earn far more than I would be making without owing tax. So again I could take tIRA conversions in lieu of income and make them effectively tax free because I wouldn't owe enough in tax.
Now ROTH is where it gets fun. ROTH contributions can be withdrawn tax free before retirement (but not gains). ROTH conversion contributions can be withdrawn after 5 years. What you can set up is called a conversion ladder where you convert money from tIRAs to ROTHs each year in lieu of income at a tax rate you are comfortable with, live off of the direct ROTH contributions you made earlier in your career for 5 years and then start withdrawing the laddered conversions after five years. So each year you withdraw the contribution you made five years previously.
We're getting a little bit off topic here and more into the realm of tax minimization but even if used as intended, you will not be making so much in retirement that your effective tax rate is higher then than it is right now. And paying taxes on it in retirement, even if the tax rate is just as high, is no worse than taking the money now and putting it in a ROTH and is considerably worse than pretty much anything else you can do with it.
Let's assume an investment of $100 pretax, tax rate of 25%, both now and in retirement, capital gains of 15% and 7% compounding returns.
401k/tIRA $100 (the $100 pretax dollars)*1.07^n(n is number of years it compounds for)*0.75(25% taken out in tax at retirement)
ROTH $100*0.75 (25% tax paid now before we can put it in a ROTH, ROTHs require posttax money)*1.07n(n is number of years it compounds for)*1.00(ROTH principle + gains are "tax free" although really it just means that the 25% was at the front, not the back)
Taxable investments $100*0.75*1.07^n*0.85
First two options are mathematically identical if tax rate remains constant, tIRA is better if tax in retirement is lower (which it really ought to be given that working years are your high earning high spending years), ROTH is better if tax in retirement is higher because you can lock in your tax rate today. But again, you can game the system with tIRA to ROTH conversions by choosing the year in which you want to lock in your tax rate and you can pick the years in which it'll be 0%.
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On May 29 2015 06:06 screamingpalm wrote:
Textbook American voting against their own interests lol. I blame the vocational education system. Maybe Obama's increased focus on math and critical thinking will bear some fruit in the future.
having just one semester course on personal finance, taxation, medicare and social security in highschool will help immensely.
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Perhaps investing and doing the other tax-related things that KwarK is talking about are not in the interests of most poor Americans?
If they all did what he's saying we could just eliminate social security and medicare. And the wealth gap would basically look a lot like the one in my stupid robot hypothetical.
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On May 29 2015 05:49 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 05:45 Trainrunnef wrote:
I think its terrible that as a country basic tax, personal finance, loan, and investment information isn't a part of the mandatory high school curriculum. Is it anywhere in the world? For all the stuff school should teach you they sure don't teach anyone anywhere how to handle finances. Its up to a tired Brit to rage at young guys to get their shit sorted. Watch that blood pressure Kwark :p
Yes, i find this extremely weird, too. Being able to handle your finances well is one of the most important skills you can have. Dealing with taxes is also incredibly important. Yet it is lacking from school curricula all around the world (I guess a problem here is that most people don't have the money to actually apply that knowledge while in school, which would probably reduce the retention rate of that practical knowledge by a lot). And once they are out of school, few people would willingly attend a course on how to manage money.
Still, a bit of common knowledge should be imparted onto everyone. Like the fact that borrowing money does not lead to you having more money. If you can't afford something without a loan, you still can't afford it with a loan, you just have to deal with that problem a bit later.
Getting a loan should always be for very exceptional situations. Buying a house. Buying a car. Stuff like that. If you habitually get loans you have less money to spend on things, because you need to spend money onto the loan interest. This should be obvious to anyone with even the slightest understanding of either numbers, money, people, or the world. But apparently it is not, and a lot of people seem to believe that getting a loan leads to them having more money.
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On May 29 2015 06:11 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 05:49 Gorsameth wrote:On May 29 2015 05:45 Trainrunnef wrote:
I think its terrible that as a country basic tax, personal finance, loan, and investment information isn't a part of the mandatory high school curriculum. Is it anywhere in the world? For all the stuff school should teach you they sure don't teach anyone anywhere how to handle finances. Its up to a tired Brit to rage at young guys to get their shit sorted. Watch that blood pressure Kwark :p Yes, i find this extremely weird, too. Being able to handle your finances well is one of the most important skills you can have. Dealing with taxes is also incredibly important. Yet it is lacking from school curricula all around the world (I guess a problem here is that most people don't have the money to actually apply that knowledge while in school, which would probably reduce the retention rate of that practical knowledge by a lot). And once they are out of school, few people would willingly attend a course on how to manage money. Still, a bit of common knowledge should be imparted onto everyone. Like the fact that borrowing money does not lead to you having more money. If you can't afford something without a loan, you still can't afford it with a loan, you just have to deal with that problem a bit later. Getting a loan should always be for very exceptional situations. Buying a house. Buying a car. Stuff like that. If you habitually get loans you have less money to spend on things, because you need to spend money onto the loan interest. This should be obvious to anyone with even the slightest understanding of either numbers, money, people, or the world. But apparently it is not, and a lot of people seem to believe that getting a loan leads to them having more money.
Ideally it would be something you teach at the end of collage/university. Within a year of actually unleashing them upon the job market so while they might not remember details they atleast know something and hopefully look up the rest.
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On May 29 2015 05:40 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 05:22 KwarK wrote:On May 29 2015 05:07 ref4 wrote:On May 29 2015 05:01 KwarK wrote:On May 29 2015 04:10 ref4 wrote:
I am already paying $500 in taxes every paycheck ($2500 -> $2000) I honestly will kill the candidate that promises to raise taxes.
I am probably gonna get FBI/NSA'ed for this post but w/e. I honestly don't understand how you Europeans are okay with paying so much taxes (what is it like 50-60% income tax over there or something?) Unless even your minimum wage jobs pay like $5000 a month or something. How often are you paid? I'm trying to work out your gross pretax here but it's entirely possible that the problem you are describing is called "your withholding is set too high" or possibly "use the damn tax credits built for you". Either way, the tax raises being discussed here aren't for you and won't impact you. One of the remarkable things I've noticed about the United States is the vast number of people who currently owe, or at the very least ought not to owe if they used the credits built for them, who insist that they're paying too much in tax and that taxes should be lowered for the people not them who currently pay the tax on their behalf. I get paid biweekly ($1250 every 2 weeks, $2500 a month, $30,000 a year before taxes). The federal income tax % for my bracket is 15%, which is okay, but I also have to pay state tax, medicare tax and social security. Fuck taxes. Okay. Let's assume your highest tax scenario, you're filing alone, no dependents, unmarried. In this situation you have the fewest tax bonuses because your money is just supporting you so you don't need them. So you're naturally in the highest bracket. You're making $30,000 pretax. You have a $6,300 standard deduction and a $4,000 exemption for yourself. That brings your taxable income down to a more manageable $19,700 which should come out at $2,494 tax in a year. So your withholding is set too high. But wait, we can do more. That 3% 401k match you get at work, put $75 bucks a month into that. Firstly you get free money in your 401k, totaling $900 a year, but also we can start working on the Saver's Credit. You see with your income the government is actually going to offer you a free 50% match on any money you save in the form of a non refundable credit up to $1000. We just need to get your AGI a bit lower. Let's make a $455 monthly tIRA contribution and put another $475 into our 401k each month. Your AGI is now $17,940. That's your new gross income as far as the IRS is concerned. So we take out your $10,300 to find your taxable income, it's now $7,640. That's in the 10% bracket so you pay $764 tax on that. Then you say "Mr IRS, I'm eligible for the full 50% match on the Saver's Credit, I'd like $1000 back in taxes. Your tax burden is 0. If it's any higher then it's by choice. And even if your taxes were the highest they could possibly be with current tax rates the most you could owe would be $2,494 in 2015. That's not $500 a month. That's not even close. Fix your damn withholding, learn to count and realize that you don't owe a damn thing in taxes. You are the poor. You are the working class. You are the people who they're trying to help. These higher taxes aren't for you. These tax incentives to the working poor who save money are the things that are for you. For fucks sake America. Teach your kids to count so they're not on the internet and complaining about high taxes and the gubmint before someone has to take them aside and explain to them that they're the working poor who don't owe any taxes and who live off the taxes on the rich. Also I literally just earned you $3,400 if you follow my advice. Also fucking go back to school. You can literally spend $2,500 on education this year getting a part time associates degree or doing an online bachelors and then use the educational credits to offset your entire tax burden to leave you paying effective nothing for your education. The people in Washington are trying so, so hard to help you here. They're taxing you at almost nothing and they're offering to take away the remaining taxes in exchange for you funding your retirement or going to school or doing fucking anything and you can't even be bothered to fix your damn withholding. You're literally complaining about paying too much in tax, not because your tax rate is too high but because you keep sending them too much in tax and forcing them to send it back to you with a note that reads "stop sending us so much money". This isn't a tax rate problem. This is a you problem. Thanks for the financial advice but honestly I wouldn't know a tenth of that if I don't have a degree in finance/accounting/economics (which I assume you do?). The tax law is convoluted as it is. I don't want to go back to school to get some associates degree because I already have a master's degree in biochemistry. I am lucky to land this job I currently have (well I did got another job offer at $35,000 but I already relocated for the first job). Right now I am just working for a couple of years to get some papers published for my PI and (hopefully) move up and land a job in the industry. And for the record I could give a shit's ass how much the rich, the other working poor, the middle class etc. gets taxed I still hate being taxed. I am already paying taxes with every single purchase at the store and every meal I order already.
You don't need a degree anything to understand that. It just takes a little bit of reading and research
reddit.com/r/personalfinance is a good resource to start out in but on average they don't talk about deductions as much as they do tax advantaged accounts and basic budgeting
Also, re the person who who wants schools to teach personal finance: I absolutely agree! My job this summer is exactly that (teaching 9-12 year olds about pf). However, you need to remember that the average personal finance course in a public school won't really go over specific deductions like this very much because there's just so much stuff out there to know. Basically the courses teach kids to live within their means along with very basic financial literacy (balance a checkbook, open a checking account, save some of your money, simple budgeting). Maybe a high school course would cover budgeting, interest rates, mortgages, and basic retirement funds like the 401k, IRA, etc. (I don't really know because I'm not teaching HS students).
PF is a really broad field so everybody really needs to do a bit of research into it themselves. PF school courses teach things that are "common sense" that you probably know by default if you come from a middle or upper-middle class family. Doesn't mean they aren't important, but you won't learn every single deduction you can claim from them lol
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The problem is that not everyone goes to university, and the people that need that kind of knowledge most probably don't.
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On May 29 2015 06:11 cLutZ wrote:
Perhaps investing and doing the other tax-related things that KwarK is talking about are not in the interests of most poor Americans?
If they all did what he's saying we could just eliminate social security and medicare. And the wealth gap would basically look a lot like the one in my stupid robot hypothetical.
It should be though. Especially if we end up liquidating some entitlement spending by raising minimum wage or expanding EITC like discussed earlier- it will be even more important.
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United States42008 Posts
On May 29 2015 06:11 cLutZ wrote:
Perhaps investing and doing the other tax-related things that KwarK is talking about are not in the interests of most poor Americans?
If they all did what he's saying we could just eliminate social security and medicare. And the wealth gap would basically look a lot like the one in my stupid robot hypothetical.
I'm poor and in America and I can tell you they're very much in my interests. That's why I took a few days to learn all this stuff. But I am not most Americans. Most Americans don't go out and read the tax code. People do not act in their best interests.
I would absolutely like to opt out of social security because I think I can do it better if they let me keep the money. I don't believe that is a universal statement though. People need social security because it stops them making payments on a truck with that money.
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EPT
