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On November 19 2012 23:31 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:27 DrainX wrote:On November 19 2012 23:23 Sermokala wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:52 fleeze wrote:On November 19 2012 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place. god i don't even know what to say. yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic. Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! the difference between the 2 is that one does what it does to inspire terror for political reasons. Thus the name terrorist. The Governments do what they do for the perceived best interests of the peoplt they govern thus governments. Even if that second statement is true, those statements aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes terrorising another population can be perceived as being in the best interest a country/population/government. If terroriseing another population didn't benefit another country/population/government then there would be no reason for them to commit acts of terrorism. The difference is that the terrorists do it for political gain when governments don't do it for political gain. Governments see politics as a justification for what they do while terrorists use politics as a means to their goal. I didn't think this was that complex.
Governments do it for exactly the same reason as terrorists. Because it is in their interests. One party just happens to be a government. When the US trains and supports paramilitary groups attacking the populations in foreign countries, they do that because they want to overthrow that government. Currently, Israel is bombing Gaza because an Election is soon coming up, and increasing the conflict is in the interest of the people in government if they want to be re-elected.
I don't understand how you can say that governments don't commit terrorism for political reasons. What other reasons would there be?
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On November 19 2012 23:33 DrainX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:31 Sermokala wrote:On November 19 2012 23:27 DrainX wrote:On November 19 2012 23:23 Sermokala wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:52 fleeze wrote:
[quote]
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic. Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! the difference between the 2 is that one does what it does to inspire terror for political reasons. Thus the name terrorist. The Governments do what they do for the perceived best interests of the peoplt they govern thus governments. Even if that second statement is true, those statements aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes terrorising another population can be perceived as being in the best interest a country/population/government. If terroriseing another population didn't benefit another country/population/government then there would be no reason for them to commit acts of terrorism. So just because Country A benefits from committing acts of terrorism, they are justified in their action?
It isn't acts of terrorism when governments do them. When america firebombed the axies cities in WW2 it wasn't terrorism and it wasn't either when America droped Nuclear weapons on japan. Politics doesn't have anything to do with the actions that governments do for terrorists its everything they do things for.
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On November 19 2012 23:31 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:52 fleeze wrote:On November 19 2012 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place. god i don't even know what to say. yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic. Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda. Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list? You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq. I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization. If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you.
Oh, so using "normal weapons" to kill innocent people in iraq does not count anymore? Or stuff like guantanamo bay, which is pure terror and even torture, completely unjustified?
God, talk about selective perspectives. Guess i need to label every american a supporter of guantanamo bay now, which would be equal to total assholes. Am i doing it right?
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United Kingdom9761 Posts
On November 19 2012 23:31 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:52 fleeze wrote:On November 19 2012 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place. god i don't even know what to say. yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic. Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda. Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list? You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq. I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization. If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Beirut_car_bombing
edit: read the page. This wasn't in support of the US population, it was done for money. Does this make the CIA a terrorist organization?
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On November 19 2012 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:31 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:52 fleeze wrote:
[quote]
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic. Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda. Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list? You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq. I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization. If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Beirut_car_bombingedit: read the page. This wasn't in support of the US population, it was done for money. Does this make the CIA a terrorist organization?
Were they specifically targeting innocent civilians?
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On November 19 2012 23:43 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 19 2012 23:31 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda. Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list? You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq. I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization. If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Beirut_car_bombingedit: read the page. This wasn't in support of the US population, it was done for money. Does this make the CIA a terrorist organization? Were they specifically targeting innocent civilians?
Does it matter at 80 dead and 200 injured civilians?
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United Kingdom9761 Posts
On November 19 2012 23:43 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 19 2012 23:31 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight. By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda. Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list? You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq. I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization. If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Beirut_car_bombingedit: read the page. This wasn't in support of the US population, it was done for money. Does this make the CIA a terrorist organization? Were they specifically targeting innocent civilians?
In the same way Hamas does, yes. The bomb COULD have killed the target (it didn't) in the same way that a Hamas rocket COULD kill an Israeli leader. They knew the bomb would kill innocent civilians, and did it anyway. Intentions are irrelevant here. The main argument for Hamas being terrorists is that their rockets are so inaccurate that innocent civilians will obviously be the ones that die, if anyone does. Well what about this bomb? The explosion was so huge that civilians were obviously going to die. There was no suggestion of the innocents being used as a human shield, they were just going about their normal lives, and the CIA murdered them.
edit: whether or not the CIA are terrorists is pretty much besides the point. They are just not that different from Hamas when it comes down to their regard for innocent lives.
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On November 15 2012 10:36 Emperor_Earth wrote:
I have only the deepest sympathies for residents of the entire region.
this, I think both side have a responsibility and that neither truly want peace, so this situation will continue and more innocent civilians will die
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On November 19 2012 23:48 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:43 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 19 2012 23:31 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 23:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:15 m4inbrain wrote:On November 19 2012 23:12 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 22:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
[quote]
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas. The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war. Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general. Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write? The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable! You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda. Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list? You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq. I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization. If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Beirut_car_bombingedit: read the page. This wasn't in support of the US population, it was done for money. Does this make the CIA a terrorist organization? Were they specifically targeting innocent civilians? In the same way Hamas does, yes. The bomb COULD have killed the target (it didn't) in the same way that a Hamas rocket COULD kill an Israeli leader. They knew the bomb would kill innocent civilians, and did it anyway. Intentions are irrelevant here. The main argument for Hamas being terrorists is that their rockets are so inaccurate that innocent civilians will obviously be the ones that die, if anyone does. Well what about this bomb? The explosion was so huge that civilians were obviously going to die. There was no suggestion of the innocents being used as a human shield, they were just going about their normal lives, and the CIA murdered them.
No, Hamas deliberately targets civilians with no intentions of dealing damage to military infrastructure or personnel. Theres a big distinction between that and collateral damage.
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The source that the wikepedia use's (lol at using wiki as a credible source for your argument) are cearly just hearsay and nothing more then that. Cold war was a crazy place for intelligence operatives and it should point more to that the saudies were the ones that paid for the hit.
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On November 19 2012 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
The source that the wikepedia use's (lol at using wiki as a credible source for your argument) are cearly just hearsay and nothing more then that. Cold war was a crazy place for intelligence operatives and it should point more to that the saudies were the ones that paid for the hit.
Nothing wrong with using Wikipedia as long as you check the sources that are presented. The idea that we should laugh off wikipedia sources if a falsehood in itself.
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On November 19 2012 23:52 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
The source that the wikepedia use's (lol at using wiki as a credible source for your argument) are cearly just hearsay and nothing more then that. Cold war was a crazy place for intelligence operatives and it should point more to that the saudies were the ones that paid for the hit. Nothing wrong with using Wikipedia as long as you check the sources that are presented. The idea that we should laugh off wikipedia sources if a falsehood in itself.
What you should laugh off is that the sources are pure hearsay as the most credible of sources for that the cia doing the bombing. The guy who posted it in most cases and in probably in this case didn't read the sources and just considered wikipedia to be credible for this. The fact is that the pages sources aren't credible and should be laughed at.
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United Kingdom9761 Posts
On November 19 2012 23:54 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:52 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
The source that the wikepedia use's (lol at using wiki as a credible source for your argument) are cearly just hearsay and nothing more then that. Cold war was a crazy place for intelligence operatives and it should point more to that the saudies were the ones that paid for the hit. Nothing wrong with using Wikipedia as long as you check the sources that are presented. The idea that we should laugh off wikipedia sources if a falsehood in itself. What you should laugh off is that the sources are pure hearsay as the most credible of sources for that the cia doing the bombing. The guy who posted it in most cases and in probably in this case didn't read the sources and just considered wikipedia to be credible for this. The fact is that the pages sources aren't credible and should be laughed at.
I actually just looked there for confirmation of what i already knew. This made worldwide news, with the CIA being labelled as the culprits even by the American media. Do you want me to go back in time and gather some forensic evidence for you? Or is the media not reliable as a source of information? If not then you can't make any judgements about Hamas or anything that you haven't seen with your own 2 eyes.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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And they will get away with it unless the US drop their support of Israel. Look at what happened with South Africa after US dropped their support of them.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
ive given obama a bit of a pass on the drone thing, but this is pretty much apartheid escalating into mass killing and diaspora. it is historically bad.
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On November 19 2012 23:57 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:54 Sermokala wrote:On November 19 2012 23:52 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
The source that the wikepedia use's (lol at using wiki as a credible source for your argument) are cearly just hearsay and nothing more then that. Cold war was a crazy place for intelligence operatives and it should point more to that the saudies were the ones that paid for the hit. Nothing wrong with using Wikipedia as long as you check the sources that are presented. The idea that we should laugh off wikipedia sources if a falsehood in itself. What you should laugh off is that the sources are pure hearsay as the most credible of sources for that the cia doing the bombing. The guy who posted it in most cases and in probably in this case didn't read the sources and just considered wikipedia to be credible for this. The fact is that the pages sources aren't credible and should be laughed at. I actually just looked there for confirmation of what i already knew. This made worldwide news, with the CIA being labelled as the culprits even by the American media. Do you want me to go back in time and gather some forensic evidence for you? Or is the media not reliable as a source of information? If not then you can't make any judgements about Hamas or anything that you haven't seen with your own 2 eyes.
Eh. I would think CIA, as the world's premier intelligence organization, would render any sensational mainstream news on it suspicious.
The same cannot be said of Hamas. But this is really quite off-topic.
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In that video from DrainX, Chomsky says there was a demand from the arabs states for peace that contain a complete approval of Israel's state and the US used their veto against that ? I don't really understand.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 20 2012 00:10 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:57 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 19 2012 23:54 Sermokala wrote:On November 19 2012 23:52 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 19 2012 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
The source that the wikepedia use's (lol at using wiki as a credible source for your argument) are cearly just hearsay and nothing more then that. Cold war was a crazy place for intelligence operatives and it should point more to that the saudies were the ones that paid for the hit. Nothing wrong with using Wikipedia as long as you check the sources that are presented. The idea that we should laugh off wikipedia sources if a falsehood in itself. What you should laugh off is that the sources are pure hearsay as the most credible of sources for that the cia doing the bombing. The guy who posted it in most cases and in probably in this case didn't read the sources and just considered wikipedia to be credible for this. The fact is that the pages sources aren't credible and should be laughed at. I actually just looked there for confirmation of what i already knew. This made worldwide news, with the CIA being labelled as the culprits even by the American media. Do you want me to go back in time and gather some forensic evidence for you? Or is the media not reliable as a source of information? If not then you can't make any judgements about Hamas or anything that you haven't seen with your own 2 eyes. Eh. I would think CIA, as the world's premier intelligence organization, would render any sensational mainstream news on it suspicious. The same cannot be said of Hamas. But this is really quite off-topic.
there is no genuine controversy as to the brutality of cia funded or supported operations. some people are just ignorantly blissful of the facts.
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I just shake my head for the people who live in that area. They are the most powerless and their families are all at the greatest amount of risk when things like this are allowed to happen without consequence
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EPT
