On November 19 2012 22:08 Cillas wrote: why should the situation before the second intifada been acceptable to palestin in the first place?
As a question out of curiosity to an israeli. Why cant u create a single state with equal rights for everyone?
Short answer is not practical and both sides dont want it,
Yes I'm sure the Palestinians are sitting there disdaining the idea that Israel might treat them like actual people, as equals. Much too impractical, they'd prefer to be bombed, imprisoned and occupied, or that's the opinion I'm getting from your statement.
Once again you see what you want to see. They want their own state, their own government their own independence and their own power. The PLO have never even said "we want to merge" and Hamas will stop at nouthing to have their own state, from the Jordan to the sea.
Yep, it's the Palestinians that want all the land...
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
I'm working until Christmas for a charity that amongst many projects is involved with purchasing and acquiring olive oil, then selling it bottled as Peace Oil. From the leaflets:
Peace Oil is produced in Israel by Jews, Arabs, Druze and Bedouin working together. Grown in the foothills of the Carmel Mountains, the olives are cold pressed within hours of picking, to produce prize winning extra virgin, single estate olive oil.
So, contrary to popular belief it seems, the average Arab just wants to live in peace with the average Jew and vice versa...
I'm not saying that this is definitely what's happening here but it almost seems as if some people are deliberately trying to make every Palestinian look like an evil land grabbing chaos loving antisemitic primitive animal so they don't have to feel guilty about supporting the government that is brutally massacring them...
On November 19 2012 23:03 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm not saying that this is definitely what's happening here but it almost seems as if some people are deliberately trying to make every Palestinian look like an evil land grabbing chaos loving antisemitic primitive animal so they don't have to feel guilty about supporting the government that is brutally massacring them...
That fits about right with the propaganda. You'd be surprised at how many people just want to live in peace and get old and die.
On November 19 2012 23:03 3Form wrote: I'm working until Christmas for a charity that amongst many projects is involved with purchasing and acquiring olive oil, then selling it bottled as Peace Oil. From the leaflets:
Peace Oil is produced in Israel by Jews, Arabs, Druze and Bedouin working together. Grown in the foothills of the Carmel Mountains, the olives are cold pressed within hours of picking, to produce prize winning extra virgin, single estate olive oil.
So, contrary to popular belief it seems, the average Arab just wants to live in peace with the average Jew and vice versa...
And this is what sucks so much about the whole situation. Muslums get misrepresented as a hateful religion in situation after situation. Europe looks at what happened with northern ireland and sees that as a successful anti insurgency campaign and doesn't see why isreal doesn't follow their model and get portrayed as cowards in american circles of thinking. America who supports isreal would rather see a large disproportionate response as has shown to be successful in Americas past when dealing with wars and gets displayed as a warmongering people who love war. Neither of these aproches work because they're dealing with on the other side a fundementaly different player in a united muslum world who sees themselves in a position of moral and military strength. This same player doesn't understand or play by the same rules that are considered common sense by the other 2 schools of thinking on this matter.
I saw this video as well around. This thread has had a pretty good culture of good youtubes I think.
On November 19 2012 22:11 Goozen wrote: [quote] Short answer is not practical and both sides dont want it,
Yes I'm sure the Palestinians are sitting there disdaining the idea that Israel might treat them like actual people, as equals. Much too impractical, they'd prefer to be bombed, imprisoned and occupied, or that's the opinion I'm getting from your statement.
Once again you see what you want to see. They want their own state, their own government their own independence and their own power. The PLO have never even said "we want to merge" and Hamas will stop at nouthing to have their own state, from the Jordan to the sea.
Yep, it's the Palestinians that want all the land...
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
I was with the Israelis, when the rockets were launched from Gaza into Israel.
But this has gotten to the point of mass murder. The bombings by Israel are utterly disproportionate. They seemingly have no regard for civilians, as long as their target is hit. This has now turned into a 1-sided slaughter.
Israel has the right to defend itself and to retaliate, but they should not be allowed to relentlessly bomb Gaza with little to no regard for civilian casualties, bomb media stations, and continue to engage in mass murder 5 days after the rockets fired into Israel have mostly ceased.
What do you expect Israel to do then, you need to remember that Hamas is deeply entwined (by choice) in the civilian population. When fighting in one of the most crowded places on earth Israel has bombed by now over 1,100 targets and is looking at a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio of civilian to militant death. What else do you expect Israel to do? allow people to fire from civilian areas and hide their munitions there and not defend themselves? As i have said dozens of times, this isnt a numbers game. Israel dose the best to defend its civilians and takes steps to not harm Gazen Civilians. Hamas target Israeli civilians and use their civilians to defend them selves as so either Israel wont attack or they get to win the PR war. Its a win/win for them.
Yes I'm sure the Palestinians are sitting there disdaining the idea that Israel might treat them like actual people, as equals. Much too impractical, they'd prefer to be bombed, imprisoned and occupied, or that's the opinion I'm getting from your statement.
Once again you see what you want to see. They want their own state, their own government their own independence and their own power. The PLO have never even said "we want to merge" and Hamas will stop at nouthing to have their own state, from the Jordan to the sea.
Yep, it's the Palestinians that want all the land...
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
Edit: it may not be the same situation, but its definately comparable.
On November 19 2012 22:26 Goozen wrote: [quote] Once again you see what you want to see. They want their own state, their own government their own independence and their own power. The PLO have never even said "we want to merge" and Hamas will stop at nouthing to have their own state, from the Jordan to the sea.
Yep, it's the Palestinians that want all the land...
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
You guys haven't even done the most basic research.. Terrorism is when someone attacks America or its arbitrary current set of allies. This automatically disqualifies America or its government... LOGIC people.
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda.
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
Let's just stop discussing that matter, i have enough faith in TL to believe that most of the ppl reading here can spot the difference without discussing it over 12 pages.
You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda.
At least he can differ between hamas-activist/supporter and palestinian arab. You pretty much fail on that matter.
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
the difference between the 2 is that one does what it does to inspire terror for political reasons. Thus the name terrorist.
The Governments do what they do for the perceived best interests of the peoplt they govern thus governments.
The Tea party no matter how much you can hate it doesn't have a directly tied military wing to kill its enemies. The difference is profound and wide.
On November 19 2012 22:43 Sermokala wrote: [quote]
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda.
Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list?
You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq.
I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization.
On November 19 2012 22:43 Sermokala wrote: [quote]
It is the Palestinian arabs that want all the land and won't accept anything short of "throwing the jews into the sea" and creating a single arab state from the jordan to the sea. Whats your point? We should reward people who decide that attempting genocides is the way to get your side in the moral right with the world?
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
the difference between the 2 is that one does what it does to inspire terror for political reasons. Thus the name terrorist.
The Governments do what they do for the perceived best interests of the peoplt they govern thus governments.
Even if that second statement is true, those statements aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes terrorising another population can be perceived as being in the best interest a country/population/government.
Sometimes a "government" does not the things you expected them to do at the time you voted for them. Ask the germans.
Edit: and no, better don't ask me, as i was labeled racist, antisemit etc in this thread because i don't support Israel (or hamas, but that does not seem to count).
Did hamas come into power by a true representation of the people? or was it completely corrupt and seperate from their beliefs?
edit: considering hamas is pretty open with their violence, just wondering how they came into power o_O.. there must be alot of hatred within the people themselves
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
the difference between the 2 is that one does what it does to inspire terror for political reasons. Thus the name terrorist.
The Governments do what they do for the perceived best interests of the peoplt they govern thus governments.
Even if that second statement is true, those statements aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes terrorising another population can be perceived as being in the best interest a country/population/government.
If terroriseing another population didn't benefit another country/population/government then there would be no reason for them to commit acts of terrorism. The difference is that the terrorists do it for political gain when governments don't do it for political gain. Governments see politics as a justification for what they do while terrorists use politics as a means to their goal.
palestinian arab =/= hamas supporter fail logic you got there.
How is that fail logic? Palestinian arabs support hamas thats why theres any problem in the first place.
god i don't even know what to say.
yes, mr. bush supporter, iraque invader, vietnam murderer and everything else the US GOVERNMENT ever did wrong, you are totally right with your flawless logic.
Hamas is the governing body, regardless of how many actual supporters they have or don't have. Until there is a governing body that isn't a known terrorist organization I don't see how your point has any weight.
By that logic after Iraq all the Americans (And for the latter point Canadians) should be equated as war mongering whores because of the actions of their government.... What you're doing is generalizing a populace for the actions of the governing body, it's a falsehood. This is the reason we refer to the IDF and Israel government but not the "jewish people" for the actions of Israel as we refer to Hamas and not Palestinians (and especially not arabs) for the actions of Hamas.
The Canadian government and US government weren't clear cut terrorist organizations despite how horrible you believe the Iraq campaign was/is. The fact that you are trying to make this argument is sad. As I was saying, it's not really about generalizing an entire population. I have been to Israel, I realize better than you that not every Palestinian condones or supports the actions taken by Hamas. The fact still stands that their governing body is and has been a malicious terrorist organization. That situation is not comparable by any means to America and the Iraq war.
Of course it is. The american government is (or better was) led by a stupid warmonger, which forced alot of good guys into a non-justified war. Yet, i blame HIM, not the US in general.
Wheres the difference, do you even read what you write?
The difference is one is called "government" the other "terrorist cell"... If a government kills people, it's justifiable but if a "terrorist cell" does the same (on a far smaller scale I might add) it's horrendous and uncomparable!
You're so incredibly biased and it's clear you have no stance unless it's against Israel. Terrible shit was done by the American government in Iraq and people were punished, probably not nearly everyone who deserved it, but the government definitely owned up to it's mistakes and made some efforts to find those guilty. Hamas has no intention of this and encourages the killing of innocents to further their agenda.
Sorry is the Palestinian conflict over? Last time I checked it's still raging and people punished for Iraq? Mind giving me a big list?
You either have A) no idea what you're talking about or B) can't comprehend the information presented. The comparison is that a governing body did X as another governing body is doing similar X variables but being condemned heavily as "terrorists". So the argument is that because of this, if we are claiming all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and the actions of that body THEN all Americans (and Canadians) are war mongering whores who supported the massacre of Iraq.
I think I'll take m4's advice, this seems like a pointless argument since you have little concept of the term generalization.
If the American government was employing suicide bombers to kill innocents in Iraq you bet your ass I'd move out of the country. I guess when it comes between choosing Jews or suicide bombers its a clear choice for you.
On November 19 2012 23:28 m4inbrain wrote: Sometimes a "government" does not the things you expected them to do at the time you voted for them. Ask the germans.
Edit: and no, better don't ask me, as i was labeled racist, antisemit etc in this thread because i don't support Israel (or hamas, but that does not seem to count).
Lol : P Worlds a bitch like that, you're anti semetic if you dislike the actions of Israel even if you also dislike the actions of Hamas.
EPT
