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On November 19 2012 19:12 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 19:03 Velocirapture wrote:On November 19 2012 18:38 furymonkey wrote:On November 19 2012 17:54 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:46 furymonkey wrote:On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do. Pushed into corner that they have to fire rockets, so that their condition deteriorate while gaining nothing? They sound so smart. How would you propose Palestine should act? If they put down the weapons Israel just keeps moving in building new houses and facilities and keeping the blockade up deciding what Palestine should get. The mistake by Palestine was not pushing for a unified government sooner and attempting to get a seat in the UN. Now that they are being pushed to the brink, Israel and the US just have to block their bids for a UN seat a little longer because they know Palestine cannot keep this up much longer. As long as the US backs Israel with weapons, missiles.. etc no other nation can stand up and tell them to stop doing these other illegal activities. What does Palestine do, they fight back the only way they think will allow them to survive. The negative side to this is it allows Israel to just basically walk in with their better technology of weapons and flat out win, all while saying it is in defense. They are building new houses regardless, I failed to see how rockets is preventing all that. Sorry, I just don't see how firing these rockets allow them to survive. The negative side you describe basically just accelerate their speed Gaza is deteriorating. I am not even anti-Israel and I think this is a silly oversimplification of the issue. There is no plainly rational solution to the problem. This is not a case of misplaced energy, it is a case of energy with no place to go. It may not be a rational choice but it is the human choice. When we are presented with the classic lose/lose scenario to either lay down and die or fight and die, we fight. In my view, palestinians are getting the raw side of the deal. We have seen in our own country how systematically oppressing people for long periods of time not only hurts the individuals but also established a survival culture which is not conducive to peace. I dont know how to completely reverse the damage since we are yet to achieve that but I do know that the first step is equality. It isn't lay down or fight, it's negotiate or fight. The choice of Hamas is abundantly clear. The solution is a slow build-up of negotiations, starting with small steps so both sides can prove their integrity. The solution isn't to instigate a two-state solution tomorrow. These negotiations will entirely exclude Hamas, who must be destroyed because there can be no compromise with them. They seek the destruction of Israel. You can't negotiate with someone who is trying to murder you, when he refuses to abandon the "murdering-you" part of his plan. You don't negotiate with agressive totalitarian movements. They only seek to negotiate their way closer to a position of power. You can't curb their ambitions with trivial land grants.
The situation is absolutely lay down or fight for both sides. You talk of negotiations but there is nothing to negotiate. These people are bound by religious zeal and decades of slaughter to be enemies. I do not think a deal can be made with hamas but the individuals want peace. There will always be an extremist element, as there is in every country. But as the west has shown, relative social and economic equality is what will push them to the fringe.
Give me 100 years where Palestinians live as well as the Jews in Tel-Aviv and then maybe they will have something to talk about.
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On November 19 2012 19:39 WhiteDog wrote:
Stop talking about solution when your knowledge on the situation is so lacking that everything you says is ridiculous.
What is the alternative? Listening to some anti-semite like yourself who had repeatedly acknowledged that Jews are subject to different rules as Palestinians?
You make a poor attempt at covering your hatred of Jews, and ridicule yourself by pretending to know anything about the situation.
Your knowledge on the subject goes little further than Jews bad, Palestinians good.
Emphasis on "totalitarian movement".
Hamas is an excuse for Israel to continue their domination on this part of the world. Without the blocade and the humanitarian situation in gaza (high density, high % of kids, etc.) the Hamas wouldn't be so powerful - because yes the Hamas is helping, building school, giving shelters and food,
Of course they build schools and hospitals. Where else are they going to fire their rockets from?
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Israel2209 Posts
Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..!
I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/
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On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out: Show nested quote +
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/
Ok i'm coming back into this thread to say that if only every palestinian thought like this they could rebel and dislodge Hamas themselves.
Its definitely not going to end well for them otherwise.
I have a question for you Noam:
If Israel controlled all the territory currently owned by Palestine, would the Palestinians be able to live there still and have all the rights (religious and otherwise) that Israelis have? I don't really know what Israeli policy is in regards to this..
Thanks
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On November 19 2012 20:25 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/ Ok i'm coming back into this thread to say that if only every palestinian thought like this they could rebel and dislodge Hamas themselves. Its definitely not going to end well for them otherwise. I have a question for you Noam: If Israel controlled all the territory currently owned by Palestine, would the Palestinians be able to live there still and have all the rights (religious and otherwise) that Israelis have? I don't really know what Israeli policy is in regards to this.. Thanks
Israel has more religious freedom than any of the countries in the region.
Minority muslim denominations (like suffi) are actually better off in Israel than in Shia/Sunni nations.
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I've heard this argument how Palestinians "did this" to themselves by electing Hamas in the first place, but damn i would like to see how things would be if it have gone like this:
From the Reddit link, Noam provided:
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas.
Once again, i'm not familiar with the situation well enough and all, but the little info i gathered, i got the idea that Hamas did show some decent viability in the elections for better life, giving women rights and such. Am i completely misinformed here? What made Palestinians vote for Hamas in the first place?
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On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out: Show nested quote +
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/
Ever thought you're so deluded about your country that anything pro-Israel is warranted to be legit?
Palestinians are being slaughtered by Israelis. No sane person would be happy that his family is being shredded even if they have strong hatred for Hamas.
Quote from the author: "Dude I don't even live in the middle east, never been to Palestine or Israel (obviously I can never go there). I'm a second generation 'refugee' from Lebanon."
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On November 19 2012 20:27 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 20:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/ Ok i'm coming back into this thread to say that if only every palestinian thought like this they could rebel and dislodge Hamas themselves. Its definitely not going to end well for them otherwise. I have a question for you Noam: If Israel controlled all the territory currently owned by Palestine, would the Palestinians be able to live there still and have all the rights (religious and otherwise) that Israelis have? I don't really know what Israeli policy is in regards to this.. Thanks Israel has more religious freedom than any of the countries in the region. Minority muslim denominations (like suffi) are actually better off in Israel than in Shia/Sunni nations.
IF they would be allowed to stay. Or they end up like the refugees in gaza.
to clarify: Israel already controls all territory "owned" by Palestine. Yet the population of gaza and the west bank has zero rights. and sure as hell they would NEVER be allowed to vote.
this whole debate about hamas representing gaza and the palestinian population is misleading. yes hamas is a terrorist organization and yes they have been voted. BUT how can you blame ALL of gaza for voting them? and how can you bomb a whole country because it "voted wrong". hamas are still terrorists, but you still can't fight terrorist with bombs... it NEVER worked. so logic where?
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On November 19 2012 20:39 Pureh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/ Ever thought you're so deluded about your country that anything pro-Israel is warranted to be legit? Palestinians are being slaughtered by Israelis. No sane person would be happy that his family is being shredded even if they have strong hatred for Hamas. Yes, it is fake; googling IDs doesn't make it legit. Your source even proves the point more.
I was neutral in this until recently, but i'm starting to think that Hamas doesn't have even the slightest care for its population. Yes Israel have been very violent in their retribution, and families have been slaughtered, but what has Hamas done to stop this?
If you were Palestinian who would you vote for? Would you rather live in an Israel controlled area, or live as a (willing or not) resistance fighter under Hamas? It looks to me as if they are the only two choices available right now. I could be wrong, so if there is another option just tell me.
Also, i am not arguing whether or not there SHOULD be another option, just that of the two seemingly only available choices, which is preferable..
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On November 19 2012 20:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 20:39 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/ Ever thought you're so deluded about your country that anything pro-Israel is warranted to be legit? Palestinians are being slaughtered by Israelis. No sane person would be happy that his family is being shredded even if they have strong hatred for Hamas. Yes, it is fake; googling IDs doesn't make it legit. Your source even proves the point more. I was neutral in this until recently, but i'm starting to think that Hamas doesn't have even the slightest care for its population. Yes Israel have been very violent in their retribution, and families have been slaughtered, but what has Hamas done to stop this? If you were Palestinian who would you vote for? Would you rather live in an Israel controlled area, or live as a (willing or not) resistance fighter under Hamas? It looks to me as if they are the only two choices available right now. I could be wrong, so if there is another option just tell me. Also, i am not arguing whether or not there SHOULD be another option, just that of the two seemingly only available choices, which is preferable..
Unfortunately, both options are horrid. Most of the Palestinian population fled the area to Jordan because of the slaughters long ago (which is the smart choice). A lot of people mentioned there is no place like home in this thread, mostly to support Israel's excuse to reoccupy its long lost holy land, this is by far full of nonsense. In short, Israelis are far from saints, neither is Hamas.
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On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out: Show nested quote +
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/
Noam, that dude's not even Palestinian.
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On November 19 2012 20:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 20:39 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/ Ever thought you're so deluded about your country that anything pro-Israel is warranted to be legit? Palestinians are being slaughtered by Israelis. No sane person would be happy that his family is being shredded even if they have strong hatred for Hamas. Yes, it is fake; googling IDs doesn't make it legit. Your source even proves the point more. I was neutral in this until recently, but i'm starting to think that Hamas doesn't have even the slightest care for its population. Yes Israel have been very violent in their retribution, and families have been slaughtered, but what has Hamas done to stop this? If you were Palestinian who would you vote for? Would you rather live in an Israel controlled area, or live as a (willing or not) resistance fighter under Hamas? It looks to me as if they are the only two choices available right now. I could be wrong, so if there is another option just tell me. Also, i am not arguing whether or not there SHOULD be another option, just that of the two seemingly only available choices, which is preferable..
The Palestinians do not have the choice to live in an Israeli controlled area.
In my opinion, the Palestinians voted for Hamas because when other Palestinian groups tried to make agreements with Israel, the Israelis did not keep to them. Just look at the current situation with the West Bank. The Palestinians there voted for the PLO, who took a completely different approach to Hamas and made deals with the Israeli government. The Israeli government have since been taking over more and more land in the West Bank. Hamas was voted in because they would not make deals with Israel, and the Palestinian people did not believe that the Israeli government was trustworthy.
If Israel had been fairer with the West Bank then they could of said the Gaza "look, the Palestinians in the West Bank worked with us and it benefited them". But what the people of Gaza see is that if they work with Israel they will just gradually lose the remainder of their land.
I also want to point out to some people in this thread that Israel is not equal to Jews. Judaism is a religion, Israel is a nation state. Also, not everyone in Israel is Jewish. I do not dislike Judaism or Jewish people, I dislike the way that the Israeli government has treated the Palestinian people.
I believe that a two state peace process is still possible, but I think that Israel first needs to earn the trust of the common Palestinian people.
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He is an idiot, convicted of crime and feels the need to try and "redeem" his father who did a unilateral withdraw from gaza. Basically Israel left gaza and got rockets as a response so overall we didnt gain from it and we will never know what his father planned as a response as he fell in to a coma. His opinion has no influence and should be treated as such.
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On November 19 2012 21:24 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 20:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 19 2012 20:39 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out:
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/ Ever thought you're so deluded about your country that anything pro-Israel is warranted to be legit? Palestinians are being slaughtered by Israelis. No sane person would be happy that his family is being shredded even if they have strong hatred for Hamas. Yes, it is fake; googling IDs doesn't make it legit. Your source even proves the point more. I was neutral in this until recently, but i'm starting to think that Hamas doesn't have even the slightest care for its population. Yes Israel have been very violent in their retribution, and families have been slaughtered, but what has Hamas done to stop this? If you were Palestinian who would you vote for? Would you rather live in an Israel controlled area, or live as a (willing or not) resistance fighter under Hamas? It looks to me as if they are the only two choices available right now. I could be wrong, so if there is another option just tell me. Also, i am not arguing whether or not there SHOULD be another option, just that of the two seemingly only available choices, which is preferable.. The Palestinians do not have the choice to live in an Israeli controlled area. In my opinion, the Palestinians voted for Hamas because when other Palestinian groups tried to make agreements with Israel, the Israelis did not keep to them. Just look at the current situation with the West Bank. The Palestinians there voted for the PLO, who took a completely different approach to Hamas and made deals with the Israeli government. The Israeli government have since been taking over more and more land in the West Bank. Hamas was voted in because they would not make deals with Israel, and the Palestinian people did not believe that the Israeli government was trustworthy. If Israel had been fairer with the West Bank then they could of said the Gaza "look, the Palestinians in the West Bank worked with us and it benefited them". But what the people of Gaza see is that if they work with Israel they will just gradually lose the remainder of their land. I also want to point out to some people in this thread that Israel is not equal to Jews. Judaism is a religion, Israel is a nation state. Also, not everyone in Israel is Jewish. I do not dislike Judaism or Jewish people, I dislike the way that the Israeli government has treated the Palestinian people. I believe that a two state peace process is still possible, but I think that Israel first needs to earn the trust of the common Palestinian people.
The people of gaza know this, before the second intifada the situation there was much better. As far as land, your wrong. there is no contested land around gaza at all, after the withdrall in 2005 they got all the land they claimed in gaza.
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why should the situation before the second intifada been acceptable to palestin in the first place?
As a question out of curiosity to an israeli. Why cant u create a single state with equal rights for everyone?
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On November 19 2012 22:08 Cillas wrote:
why should the situation before the second intifada been acceptable to palestin in the first place?
As a question out of curiosity to an israeli. Why cant u create a single state with equal rights for everyone?
Short answer is not practical and both sides dont want it,
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On November 19 2012 20:14 Noam wrote:Guess who's back? WhiteDog is back..! I feel like there are so many Israelis in this thread and so few Palestinians. Aside from the WhiteDog radicals living in Europe the other side is not being heard, so here is a post by a Palestinian to even things out: Show nested quote +
So another war has started, don't care who is to blame or who started it. What I do know that having rockets thrown at you is scary as hell. I'm liking the direction this war/conflict is taking. There hasn't been many Palestinian causalities so far, and I'm loving the Iron dome (hopefully you will one day develop the technology that can stop every rocket). Hopefully it stays this way and doesn't get any bloodier. Also, I hope the IDF won't do half a job and perhaps take over Gaza again, I think Israel did a mistake giving it back...
Anyways, why do I as a Palestinian share this opinion? Well, I'm sick of all this. I truly am. Sure Palestinians voted for Hamas, but had they known the suffering Gazans had to endure, they probably wouldn't have voted for hamas. Besides, it's not like Hamas benefited Palestinians in any way in the past years. Israel initiated the blockade on Gaza, Hamas made tunnels that's now controlled by them (like a mafia). See what I hate about this situation is the status quo, if Israel leaves Hamas alone, Gaza would remain under blockade for many years to come, and Hamas would still control tunnels using taxes earned to get rich or send of a couple of rockets every month to Israel as a sign of 'resistance'. Perhaps getting rid of Hamas and taking control of Gaza might get us closer to peace.
I know the majority of Israelis want peace, but sadly you're government is controlled by extremists as well, when they continue to expand settlements. I just hope I'll be able to see peace between us before I die (I'm 22 now, so hopefully there's time.
If you have any questions for me, don't hestitate to ask.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/13chp2/palestinian_here_hear_me_out_youll_probably_like/
Missed you too Noam. But what you posted is full of shit.
Israel was still invading Gaza when the Fatah controlled Gaza. That the Hamas has now been elected doesn't change a thing aside from the fact that it gave an excuse to Israel for not changing its way of thinking.
You can't expect people who live in a 41 km long territory, who live through bombing, to accept the "authority" of the power that is responsible for all their suffering. IDF will never be a solution for peace in the middle east, especially when almost half the population in Gaza is made of young kids from 0 to 14 years old.
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On November 19 2012 22:11 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 22:08 Cillas wrote:
why should the situation before the second intifada been acceptable to palestin in the first place?
As a question out of curiosity to an israeli. Why cant u create a single state with equal rights for everyone? Short answer is not practical and both sides dont want it,
Yes I'm sure the Palestinians are sitting there disdaining the idea that Israel might treat them like actual people, as equals. Much too impractical, they'd prefer to be bombed, imprisoned and occupied, or that's the opinion I'm getting from your statement.
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On November 19 2012 22:18 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 22:11 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 22:08 Cillas wrote:
why should the situation before the second intifada been acceptable to palestin in the first place?
As a question out of curiosity to an israeli. Why cant u create a single state with equal rights for everyone? Short answer is not practical and both sides dont want it, Yes I'm sure the Palestinians are sitting there disdaining the idea that Israel might treat them like actual people, as equals. Much too impractical, they'd prefer to be bombed, imprisoned and occupied, or that's the opinion I'm getting from your statement.
Once again you see what you want to see. They want their own state, their own government their own independence and their own power. The PLO have never even said "we want to merge" and Hamas will stop at nouthing to have their own state, from the Jordan to the sea.
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On November 19 2012 22:18 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 22:11 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 22:08 Cillas wrote:
why should the situation before the second intifada been acceptable to palestin in the first place?
As a question out of curiosity to an israeli. Why cant u create a single state with equal rights for everyone? Short answer is not practical and both sides dont want it, Yes I'm sure the Palestinians are sitting there disdaining the idea that Israel might treat them like actual people, as equals. Much too impractical, they'd prefer to be bombed, imprisoned and occupied, or that's the opinion I'm getting from your statement.
The Palestinians will not now, or ever, tolerate Jews ruling over them.
They have never once in their life stated that they want to become part of Israel. They want nothing to do with Israel.
Ideally that involves a destroyed Israel, but they might settle for a two-state solution.
But as said, there isn't anyone on either side that wants a merger.
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EPT
