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On November 19 2012 17:22 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +This is just the latest continuation in the efforts to wipe Israel off the map, or cede enough territory to advance this purpose. Israel is no stranger to violent neighbors ready and willing to fight. I stake their odds in this one to be very high. More like this a continuation of the efforts to perform the Palestinian holocaust. When they said "Never again", the Israelis actually meant "never again when we are the victims, 50 years before we are the Nazis".
Which is why the west bank is quite and since 48' the population of gaza has more then tripled itself.
Please make more one sided comments that are nothing more then baseless statements that add nothing to this thread.
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The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness!
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On November 19 2012 17:24 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 14:53 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 09:04 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 08:20 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 07:50 Holy_AT wrote:On November 19 2012 07:35 Seldentar wrote:
I keep having this recurring vision in my head of the Israelite vs Palestinian conflict escalating to such a degree that Israel finally says "Fuck it." and launches a nuke symbolizing the destruction of the entire opposing faction. O.o
Is there any real chance of this literally coming to fruition? Personally, I highly doubt it especially considering they seem to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible when carrying out attacks. You should read up on the history of the middle east, the creation of the state of Israel and its wars ... And also study a map of Israel and the palestinian enclaves. There is no reason to use an atomic weapon in the first place and second they would most likly bomb themselves too ... Also using any atomic weapon would give Iran just more reasons to accelaerate their nuclear program. The problem is that the arabic leaders and their religion or lets say at least how it is conducted fails them and to not turn the people against their leaders they need the enemy, in this case all evil Israel which needs to be destroyed according to Ahmadinechad. Why is he saying this and why are other arab leaders proposing this ? Because they are idiots without the intelligence to govern their countries in a civil and human way so they need a threat and some one to blame. Israel has no real other option to respond and they have to respond in some way ... I really dont get it how these hisbollah and other dispshits can afford millions of money on hundred of rockets and other stuff but fail to do anything worthwile for the population they claim to protect with that money. Death rates are completely one sided in Israel's favour though. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Israel is in any way the victim here. I'm pretty sure Hizbollah gain a large portion of their support from families to unrighteously murdered civilians and people who've had their homes bulldozered down with potential family members stuck in the debris. They probably gained some support when the Israeli army started targeting red cross vans. Even more support was probably gained when Israel started bombing white phosphorus, indiscriminately incinerating men women and children at random in the world's most tightly populated city. Perhaps when they bombed that UN camp with their precision bombs, or when they hit the magic numbers when they had more UN resolutions to stop their violence than all other countries together. How many decided to join the resistance when Israel boarded and shot up the ships on their way with food and medicinal supplies to Gaza on international water? It's probably got more to do with vengeance, hopelessness and deep tragedy than collected economical ideas. Israel's foreign policy is atrocious at best. The only real good thing it does is to show how futile and utterly pointless the UN as an organization is when it comes to preventing genocides and wars, as the countries with veto and their allies are safe against any repercussions. You have got to be kidding... this is literally the most misguided and hopeless post I've seen yet. Yea, the Palestinians are suffering but you only recognize the ways in which Israel contributes to this and completely ignore the massive effect from the Arab nations and their political leadership itself. Your view of the conflict and situation is so ridiculously biased and one sided it's really not possible to even debate your position. Well if you say so. Mind you that I only brought up the point of view of the Palestinians, and the fact that death rates of civilians are one sided. I didn't even describe the conflict. I described why I believe Hizbollah and Hamas are getting continued support. The point is that an overwhelming amount of civilian casualties are cause by the Israelis, and yet people in this thread are trying to make out Israel to be the victims, which is factually incorrect. http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272Just watch the pretty pictures if you can't be bothered to read the text. You'd still be better informed than anyone backing up Israel. So many times have we gone over it, civilian death numbers dont tell the story. On 1 side you have Hamas who are entrenched in civilian areas, store munitions next to and in homes, mosque, schools . They also fire the rockets from densely populated areas and aim them at civilian areas to kill and cause panic. They dont even bother protecting their own civilians and use them to protect themselves knowing Israel tries to avoid civilian deaths. Whereas Israel set up the iron dome defense system spending huge sums of money to protect its citizens and has bombed over 1,100 targets in gaza while keeping civilian deaths low. People with your lack of understanding is exactly what Hamas want to gain bad PR as you think numbers tell the whole story. Perhaps we should disable the iron dome so that more people die to make it seem more "justified"......
just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ?
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On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness!
Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed.
Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont.
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On November 19 2012 17:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:24 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 14:53 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 09:04 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 08:20 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 07:50 Holy_AT wrote:On November 19 2012 07:35 Seldentar wrote:
I keep having this recurring vision in my head of the Israelite vs Palestinian conflict escalating to such a degree that Israel finally says "Fuck it." and launches a nuke symbolizing the destruction of the entire opposing faction. O.o
Is there any real chance of this literally coming to fruition? Personally, I highly doubt it especially considering they seem to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible when carrying out attacks. You should read up on the history of the middle east, the creation of the state of Israel and its wars ... And also study a map of Israel and the palestinian enclaves. There is no reason to use an atomic weapon in the first place and second they would most likly bomb themselves too ... Also using any atomic weapon would give Iran just more reasons to accelaerate their nuclear program. The problem is that the arabic leaders and their religion or lets say at least how it is conducted fails them and to not turn the people against their leaders they need the enemy, in this case all evil Israel which needs to be destroyed according to Ahmadinechad. Why is he saying this and why are other arab leaders proposing this ? Because they are idiots without the intelligence to govern their countries in a civil and human way so they need a threat and some one to blame. Israel has no real other option to respond and they have to respond in some way ... I really dont get it how these hisbollah and other dispshits can afford millions of money on hundred of rockets and other stuff but fail to do anything worthwile for the population they claim to protect with that money. Death rates are completely one sided in Israel's favour though. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Israel is in any way the victim here. I'm pretty sure Hizbollah gain a large portion of their support from families to unrighteously murdered civilians and people who've had their homes bulldozered down with potential family members stuck in the debris. They probably gained some support when the Israeli army started targeting red cross vans. Even more support was probably gained when Israel started bombing white phosphorus, indiscriminately incinerating men women and children at random in the world's most tightly populated city. Perhaps when they bombed that UN camp with their precision bombs, or when they hit the magic numbers when they had more UN resolutions to stop their violence than all other countries together. How many decided to join the resistance when Israel boarded and shot up the ships on their way with food and medicinal supplies to Gaza on international water? It's probably got more to do with vengeance, hopelessness and deep tragedy than collected economical ideas. Israel's foreign policy is atrocious at best. The only real good thing it does is to show how futile and utterly pointless the UN as an organization is when it comes to preventing genocides and wars, as the countries with veto and their allies are safe against any repercussions. You have got to be kidding... this is literally the most misguided and hopeless post I've seen yet. Yea, the Palestinians are suffering but you only recognize the ways in which Israel contributes to this and completely ignore the massive effect from the Arab nations and their political leadership itself. Your view of the conflict and situation is so ridiculously biased and one sided it's really not possible to even debate your position. Well if you say so. Mind you that I only brought up the point of view of the Palestinians, and the fact that death rates of civilians are one sided. I didn't even describe the conflict. I described why I believe Hizbollah and Hamas are getting continued support. The point is that an overwhelming amount of civilian casualties are cause by the Israelis, and yet people in this thread are trying to make out Israel to be the victims, which is factually incorrect. http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272Just watch the pretty pictures if you can't be bothered to read the text. You'd still be better informed than anyone backing up Israel. So many times have we gone over it, civilian death numbers dont tell the story. On 1 side you have Hamas who are entrenched in civilian areas, store munitions next to and in homes, mosque, schools . They also fire the rockets from densely populated areas and aim them at civilian areas to kill and cause panic. They dont even bother protecting their own civilians and use them to protect themselves knowing Israel tries to avoid civilian deaths. Whereas Israel set up the iron dome defense system spending huge sums of money to protect its citizens and has bombed over 1,100 targets in gaza while keeping civilian deaths low. People with your lack of understanding is exactly what Hamas want to gain bad PR as you think numbers tell the whole story. Perhaps we should disable the iron dome so that more people die to make it seem more "justified"...... just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ?
Bases? there are open areas in the gaza strip and they do have training camps also. If they cared about their civilians they could easily store the weapons away from them but then they wouldn't win "the numbers game".
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On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont.
That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living.
Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do.
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On November 19 2012 17:33 bonse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:
just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ?
That's a retarded question. If they *have* to have rockets, they can store them in open areas in tunnels (they are pretty good at digging tunnels), in bunkers... use your imagination. Would you store explosives near your kids? Have some common sense. If they wouldn't have weapons that they use against Israelis, Israel wouldn't attack so they wouldn't need weapons, so everybody would be much better.
Those tunnels are always being blown up and destroyed by israeli raids, if i was them i would't store my weapons in places that my enemies could easily trace and bomb. So how would they fight for their cause and defend themselves? are the israelis the only ones that have the right to defend their people? Gaza isn't that big you know.. there isn't much place to hide caches of weapons safely.
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On November 19 2012 17:33 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:On November 19 2012 17:24 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 14:53 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 09:04 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 08:20 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 07:50 Holy_AT wrote:On November 19 2012 07:35 Seldentar wrote:
I keep having this recurring vision in my head of the Israelite vs Palestinian conflict escalating to such a degree that Israel finally says "Fuck it." and launches a nuke symbolizing the destruction of the entire opposing faction. O.o
Is there any real chance of this literally coming to fruition? Personally, I highly doubt it especially considering they seem to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible when carrying out attacks. You should read up on the history of the middle east, the creation of the state of Israel and its wars ... And also study a map of Israel and the palestinian enclaves. There is no reason to use an atomic weapon in the first place and second they would most likly bomb themselves too ... Also using any atomic weapon would give Iran just more reasons to accelaerate their nuclear program. The problem is that the arabic leaders and their religion or lets say at least how it is conducted fails them and to not turn the people against their leaders they need the enemy, in this case all evil Israel which needs to be destroyed according to Ahmadinechad. Why is he saying this and why are other arab leaders proposing this ? Because they are idiots without the intelligence to govern their countries in a civil and human way so they need a threat and some one to blame. Israel has no real other option to respond and they have to respond in some way ... I really dont get it how these hisbollah and other dispshits can afford millions of money on hundred of rockets and other stuff but fail to do anything worthwile for the population they claim to protect with that money. Death rates are completely one sided in Israel's favour though. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Israel is in any way the victim here. I'm pretty sure Hizbollah gain a large portion of their support from families to unrighteously murdered civilians and people who've had their homes bulldozered down with potential family members stuck in the debris. They probably gained some support when the Israeli army started targeting red cross vans. Even more support was probably gained when Israel started bombing white phosphorus, indiscriminately incinerating men women and children at random in the world's most tightly populated city. Perhaps when they bombed that UN camp with their precision bombs, or when they hit the magic numbers when they had more UN resolutions to stop their violence than all other countries together. How many decided to join the resistance when Israel boarded and shot up the ships on their way with food and medicinal supplies to Gaza on international water? It's probably got more to do with vengeance, hopelessness and deep tragedy than collected economical ideas. Israel's foreign policy is atrocious at best. The only real good thing it does is to show how futile and utterly pointless the UN as an organization is when it comes to preventing genocides and wars, as the countries with veto and their allies are safe against any repercussions. You have got to be kidding... this is literally the most misguided and hopeless post I've seen yet. Yea, the Palestinians are suffering but you only recognize the ways in which Israel contributes to this and completely ignore the massive effect from the Arab nations and their political leadership itself. Your view of the conflict and situation is so ridiculously biased and one sided it's really not possible to even debate your position. Well if you say so. Mind you that I only brought up the point of view of the Palestinians, and the fact that death rates of civilians are one sided. I didn't even describe the conflict. I described why I believe Hizbollah and Hamas are getting continued support. The point is that an overwhelming amount of civilian casualties are cause by the Israelis, and yet people in this thread are trying to make out Israel to be the victims, which is factually incorrect. http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272Just watch the pretty pictures if you can't be bothered to read the text. You'd still be better informed than anyone backing up Israel. So many times have we gone over it, civilian death numbers dont tell the story. On 1 side you have Hamas who are entrenched in civilian areas, store munitions next to and in homes, mosque, schools . They also fire the rockets from densely populated areas and aim them at civilian areas to kill and cause panic. They dont even bother protecting their own civilians and use them to protect themselves knowing Israel tries to avoid civilian deaths. Whereas Israel set up the iron dome defense system spending huge sums of money to protect its citizens and has bombed over 1,100 targets in gaza while keeping civilian deaths low. People with your lack of understanding is exactly what Hamas want to gain bad PR as you think numbers tell the whole story. Perhaps we should disable the iron dome so that more people die to make it seem more "justified"...... just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ? Bases? there are open areas in the gaza strip and they do have training camps also. If they cared about their civilians they could easily store the weapons away from them but then they wouldn't win "the numbers game".
i don't think it is about the "Numbers game" its about safekeeping their only way of retaliating against israel.
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What Israel has going for them is the fact that they are backed by the largest military nation and given billions upon billions of dollars to subsidize their life style plus military operations. Israel doesn't have to attack Palestine because their goal is not to kill but with weapons but by slowly pushing them out by demolishing their houses and building their own and also controlling all the basic needs (food, health, water, fuel etc) that flows into Palestine through the blockades.
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On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do.
Pushed into corner that they have to fire rockets, so that their condition deteriorate while gaining nothing? They sound so smart.
Firing rockets is the last thing that would improve the condition in Gaza.
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On November 19 2012 17:46 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do. Pushed into corner that they have to fire rockets, so that their condition deteriorate while gaining nothing? They sound so smart.
the the status quo favors israel
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On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do.
There is no land dispute around gaza and their situation was much the better before the second infitda when there was no blockade on gaza. Also remember that they share a order with Egypt who also keep it closed. There will be no negotiations until the violence and terror stop and hamas and the PLO have a reconciliation. This is not "all they have left to do" as they will always come out worse (see cast led) but when you have Iran who funds them want to shift attention away from Syria....
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On November 19 2012 17:40 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:33 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:On November 19 2012 17:24 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 14:53 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 09:04 SupLilSon wrote:On November 19 2012 08:20 Euronyme wrote:On November 19 2012 07:50 Holy_AT wrote:On November 19 2012 07:35 Seldentar wrote:
I keep having this recurring vision in my head of the Israelite vs Palestinian conflict escalating to such a degree that Israel finally says "Fuck it." and launches a nuke symbolizing the destruction of the entire opposing faction. O.o
Is there any real chance of this literally coming to fruition? Personally, I highly doubt it especially considering they seem to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible when carrying out attacks. You should read up on the history of the middle east, the creation of the state of Israel and its wars ... And also study a map of Israel and the palestinian enclaves. There is no reason to use an atomic weapon in the first place and second they would most likly bomb themselves too ... Also using any atomic weapon would give Iran just more reasons to accelaerate their nuclear program. The problem is that the arabic leaders and their religion or lets say at least how it is conducted fails them and to not turn the people against their leaders they need the enemy, in this case all evil Israel which needs to be destroyed according to Ahmadinechad. Why is he saying this and why are other arab leaders proposing this ? Because they are idiots without the intelligence to govern their countries in a civil and human way so they need a threat and some one to blame. Israel has no real other option to respond and they have to respond in some way ... I really dont get it how these hisbollah and other dispshits can afford millions of money on hundred of rockets and other stuff but fail to do anything worthwile for the population they claim to protect with that money. Death rates are completely one sided in Israel's favour though. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Israel is in any way the victim here. I'm pretty sure Hizbollah gain a large portion of their support from families to unrighteously murdered civilians and people who've had their homes bulldozered down with potential family members stuck in the debris. They probably gained some support when the Israeli army started targeting red cross vans. Even more support was probably gained when Israel started bombing white phosphorus, indiscriminately incinerating men women and children at random in the world's most tightly populated city. Perhaps when they bombed that UN camp with their precision bombs, or when they hit the magic numbers when they had more UN resolutions to stop their violence than all other countries together. How many decided to join the resistance when Israel boarded and shot up the ships on their way with food and medicinal supplies to Gaza on international water? It's probably got more to do with vengeance, hopelessness and deep tragedy than collected economical ideas. Israel's foreign policy is atrocious at best. The only real good thing it does is to show how futile and utterly pointless the UN as an organization is when it comes to preventing genocides and wars, as the countries with veto and their allies are safe against any repercussions. You have got to be kidding... this is literally the most misguided and hopeless post I've seen yet. Yea, the Palestinians are suffering but you only recognize the ways in which Israel contributes to this and completely ignore the massive effect from the Arab nations and their political leadership itself. Your view of the conflict and situation is so ridiculously biased and one sided it's really not possible to even debate your position. Well if you say so. Mind you that I only brought up the point of view of the Palestinians, and the fact that death rates of civilians are one sided. I didn't even describe the conflict. I described why I believe Hizbollah and Hamas are getting continued support. The point is that an overwhelming amount of civilian casualties are cause by the Israelis, and yet people in this thread are trying to make out Israel to be the victims, which is factually incorrect. http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272Just watch the pretty pictures if you can't be bothered to read the text. You'd still be better informed than anyone backing up Israel. So many times have we gone over it, civilian death numbers dont tell the story. On 1 side you have Hamas who are entrenched in civilian areas, store munitions next to and in homes, mosque, schools . They also fire the rockets from densely populated areas and aim them at civilian areas to kill and cause panic. They dont even bother protecting their own civilians and use them to protect themselves knowing Israel tries to avoid civilian deaths. Whereas Israel set up the iron dome defense system spending huge sums of money to protect its citizens and has bombed over 1,100 targets in gaza while keeping civilian deaths low. People with your lack of understanding is exactly what Hamas want to gain bad PR as you think numbers tell the whole story. Perhaps we should disable the iron dome so that more people die to make it seem more "justified"...... just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ? Bases? there are open areas in the gaza strip and they do have training camps also. If they cared about their civilians they could easily store the weapons away from them but then they wouldn't win "the numbers game". i don't think it is about the "Numbers game" its about safekeeping their only way of retaliating against israel.
Please, every single action of theirs puts the civilians at risk. As i said before the second intifida there was no blockade of gaza.
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On November 19 2012 17:46 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do. Pushed into corner that they have to fire rockets, so that their condition deteriorate while gaining nothing? They sound so smart.
How would you propose Palestine should act? If they put down the weapons Israel just keeps moving in building new houses and facilities and keeping the blockade up deciding what Palestine should get.
The mistake by Palestine was not pushing for a unified government sooner and attempting to get a seat in the UN. Now that they are being pushed to the brink, Israel and the US just have to block their bids for a UN seat a little longer because they know Palestine cannot keep this up much longer. As long as the US backs Israel with weapons, missiles.. etc no other nation can stand up and tell them to stop doing these other illegal activities. What does Palestine do, they fight back the only way they think will allow them to survive. The negative side to this is it allows Israel to just basically walk in with their better technology of weapons and flat out win, all while saying it is in defense.
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On November 19 2012 17:38 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:33 bonse wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:
just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ?
That's a retarded question. If they *have* to have rockets, they can store them in open areas in tunnels (they are pretty good at digging tunnels), in bunkers... use your imagination. Would you store explosives near your kids? Have some common sense. If they wouldn't have weapons that they use against Israelis, Israel wouldn't attack so they wouldn't need weapons, so everybody would be much better. Those tunnels are always being blown up and destroyed by israeli raids, if i was them i would't store my weapons in places that my enemies could easily trace and bomb. So how would they fight for their cause and defend themselves? are the israelis the only ones that have the right to defend their people? Gaza isn't that big you know.. there isn't much place to hide caches of weapons safely.
Go ahead and tell me how firing rockets at civilian populations is defending themselves....
The rockets are a offensive terror tool that only bring violence upon them and have nothing to do with self defense.
And dont play dumb, they store the weapons in places to put civilians at risk as they know that Israel tries to avoid killing civilians.
Oh, and we still know where they are.
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On November 19 2012 17:51 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do. There is no land dispute around gaza and their situation was much the better before the second infitda when there was no blockade on gaza. Also remember that they share a order with Egypt who also keep it closed. There will be no negotiations until the violence and terror stop and hamas and the PLO have a reconciliation. This is not "all they have left to do" as they will always come out worse (see cast led) but when you have Iran who funds them want to shift attention away from Syria....
So the past couple of decades Palestine has been fighting Israel has been a smokescreen to stay away from Syria? I'm saying that they have been pushed into a corner for decades and fighting is the only thing they have left (or so they think). They should have pushed for more international pressure at the UN way back and pressed to get a seat in the general assembly. They messed up by not doing this and now that they are trying Israel and the US are blocking it because they see in a couple years (I don't know exactly how long) Israel will have full control. Palestine will continue these attacks and finally Israel will just push in and claim they are fighting back with a much more devastating result for Palestine.
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On November 19 2012 17:54 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:46 furymonkey wrote:On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do. Pushed into corner that they have to fire rockets, so that their condition deteriorate while gaining nothing? They sound so smart. How would you propose Palestine should act? If they put down the weapons Israel just keeps moving in building new houses and facilities and keeping the blockade up deciding what Palestine should get. The mistake by Palestine was not pushing for a unified government sooner and attempting to get a seat in the UN. Now that they are being pushed to the brink, Israel and the US just have to block their bids for a UN seat a little longer because they know Palestine cannot keep this up much longer. As long as the US backs Israel with weapons, missiles.. etc no other nation can stand up and tell them to stop doing these other illegal activities. What does Palestine do, they fight back the only way they think will allow them to survive. The negative side to this is it allows Israel to just basically walk in with their better technology of weapons and flat out win, all while saying it is in defense.
If Hamas were interested in peace (they arent) they wouldnt act this way. As i said the blockade came as response to the intifada and there is no deputed land around gaza, its all in the west bank that dosnt fire rockets at civilians. Hamas are sponsored by Iran and work for death, please dont believe that care about their population as their action show they dont.
They dont attack Israel, their quality of life improves this has nothing to do with survival.
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On November 19 2012 17:55 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:38 ImFromPortugal wrote:On November 19 2012 17:33 bonse wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:
just one question.. there are other places where hamas could store their weapons ?
That's a retarded question. If they *have* to have rockets, they can store them in open areas in tunnels (they are pretty good at digging tunnels), in bunkers... use your imagination. Would you store explosives near your kids? Have some common sense. If they wouldn't have weapons that they use against Israelis, Israel wouldn't attack so they wouldn't need weapons, so everybody would be much better. Those tunnels are always being blown up and destroyed by israeli raids, if i was them i would't store my weapons in places that my enemies could easily trace and bomb. So how would they fight for their cause and defend themselves? are the israelis the only ones that have the right to defend their people? Gaza isn't that big you know.. there isn't much place to hide caches of weapons safely. Go ahead and tell me how firing rockets at civilian populations is defending themselves.... The rockets are a offensive terror tool that only bring violence upon them and have nothing to do with self defense. And dont play dumb, they store the weapons in places to put civilians at risk as they know that Israel tries to avoid killing civilians. Oh, and we still know where they are.
yeah.. you know where they are but its a deterrent so you won't (hopefully) strike them.
i think they should avoid firing rockets at civilians and change their strategy to attack only military targets, but i guess they don't have the capabilities to do so.
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On November 19 2012 17:58 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 17:54 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:46 furymonkey wrote:On November 19 2012 17:36 Shelke14 wrote:On November 19 2012 17:30 Goozen wrote:On November 19 2012 17:28 Sweetfrost wrote:
The death tally is up to 87 Palestineans after Isreals bombing. Ten of them where infant children. Women and children of the same family where killed when one of Isreals bombs hit a civilian house.
Stop this madness! Half to 2/3 of these were militants, and over 500 rockets launched from gaza in the past days aimed at civilian areas with 3 killed. Fact is the violence could stop now if hamas wanted to but they dont. That is not true, if Hamas stopped the violence all the Israeli government would do is go back to further constructing buildings in areas they are not allowed too and also tighten up the blockade that Palestine needs for basic living. Am I saying Hamas is justified in their actions? No, of course not but the Israeli government has pushed them into a corner and this is all they have left to do. Pushed into corner that they have to fire rockets, so that their condition deteriorate while gaining nothing? They sound so smart. How would you propose Palestine should act? If they put down the weapons Israel just keeps moving in building new houses and facilities and keeping the blockade up deciding what Palestine should get. The mistake by Palestine was not pushing for a unified government sooner and attempting to get a seat in the UN. Now that they are being pushed to the brink, Israel and the US just have to block their bids for a UN seat a little longer because they know Palestine cannot keep this up much longer. As long as the US backs Israel with weapons, missiles.. etc no other nation can stand up and tell them to stop doing these other illegal activities. What does Palestine do, they fight back the only way they think will allow them to survive. The negative side to this is it allows Israel to just basically walk in with their better technology of weapons and flat out win, all while saying it is in defense. If Hamas were interested in peace (they arent) they wouldnt act this way. As i said the blockade came as response to the intifada and there is no deputed land around gaza, its all in the west bank that dosnt fire rockets at civilians. Hamas are sponsored by Iran and work for death, please dont believe that care about their population as their action show they dont. They dont attack Israel, their quality of life improves this has nothing to do with survival.
Can you explain why Israel and the US are stopping their bid for a seat in the general assembly then in order to bring their issues too the international council? I would be interested to see what you say here because personally I think this would be a HUGE step in order for peace to be made. You seem to think I side with Hamas, I don't.....
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EPT
