Why Dendi is popular should be easy He is a good player He is young(he is pretty much a kid, which is awesome). He is likeable(good personality, dances etc) He plays the flashy role(solo mid) He is slightly insane(makes big dives, big plays, sometimes dies for it, goes blink dagger force staff on like every hero) He plays on Na'vi, the only non-Asian team to make it far. Na'vi have a strong history of dominance in Dota 2. Na'vi plays very aggressive and with interesting picks(this is not on Dendi but it does make their games in general more attractive to the general public.
On September 03 2012 04:28 Crofteh wrote: People like his style of play. Like Chu in HoN, people liked his unconventional playstyle and he made a name for himself through doing it (Pudge and his domination during the International etc...) people come to the top of the pile through their unique playstyles or their personal character, just like Destiny in SC2, not the best player in the world, but he has character, Dendi has a unique playstyle and that's why I think a lot of people gravitate to him.
comparing Dendi to Destiny is kinda BM, cuz Dendis skill within his game ranks way higher than in Destinys case. He is one of the best players and has proven it very often. period.
You missed what I was saying. I said Destiny got his fame and character through his personality and his streaming although he isn't hugely skilled. Whereas Dendi gained his popularity through his unique playstyles and skill. There are different ways to do it even if he isn't the best at what he does (not saying Dendi isn't, just an example)
On September 02 2012 12:11 findingthelimit wrote: I would say Ben "Merlini" Wu is my favorite player; he stomped early versions of Dota single handedly with "shit" heroes like zeus.
Hey, I was hoping to see Zeus in the final.
On topic, NaVi are the best foreign team (meaning: non-Asian). Why Naniwa, Huk and Stephano are so popular in SC2, for example? They attempt to put up a fight to Koreans. You get the point. NaVi won The International 1, The Defense, and The Premier League - in which they went undefeated. NaVi are the laziest Dota 2 team, they almost never play and practice, which means they rely on raw talent a lot more than anyone else. Hint: that actually attracts fans like magnet. NaVi are crazy, they always pick unconventional heroes and somehow make them work. That always makes them look like the vulnerable underdog who somehow makes it through with some Cinderella miracle (they pretty much did that again in TI2, where they finished far ahead of what their initial results were promising). And Dendi is their mad dog, mad eye, goofy, funky, odd guy, who would deliver impossible plays out of impossible heroes. He's well liked as a person, and well liked as a player. He was featured (and still is) in a cover article on the front page of Team Liquid. Recently he got related with the song Gangnam Style, which made the front page of CNN, so that brings him even more popularity among wider range of people.
Bottom line is: it's not all about being "the best". Many times in sports people don't cheer for "the best", most solid player or team. No, they may even be despised by the fans. It's not something new or to be surprised by. People like to cheer for underdogs, weirdness, beautiful play (meaning: one that isn't supposed to win, but somehow still wins), talent, ingenuity and creativity, wits and quick thinking on the spot. Cheering for the solid and secure powerhouse is boring. And while it may also gain its fans, usually the bold pretender gets more support from the fans. NaVi and Dendi are people's heroes, it's not really that strange at all.
Personally, I think I'm more of a fan of Puppey than Dendi, by the way, perhaps one of the best captains. But all players of NaVi are amazing and unique in their own right.
just relax. This was the first time most people saw chinese dota 2 and people read a lot about the famous 4 protect 1 chinese strats so they have huge prejudices regarding their playstyle. Chinese/asian can make really interesting plays, people just need to see them play a lot more. I think the biggest proof of asian teams being versatile is when iG stomped Navi in 16 mins in the first game of their bo3.
I'm a noob and got into the game within the last year. Watching TI2, I became increasingly impressed with na'vi and their personality. I didn't really see much evidence that they are universally more skilled than their competition, but it seemed at times that they were more creative, which in my mind is a great aspect for an underdog team to have against a scary, mysterious, foreign threat.
With that being said, I noticed that the western audience and the crowd at TI2 was really embarrassingly pro-navi and anti-every chinese team, to the point that it was hard for it not to seem racist. To be clear, the american, politically correct definition of racism is somewhat different from the european one; it includes imperceptively small, subconscious racism that persists despite conscious attempts to ignore race. This was undoubtedly one of those cases. No matter what chinese teams did, the crowd simply remained silent, maybe giving a short round of pity claps. The crowd even booed at times, which i simply couldn't believe. Both the casters and the audience were obsessed with navi's unconventional picks, yet they both essentially ignored disruptor until it became clear that he was having a huge impact on the game. Navi's first blood taunt in game 2 of the grand finals was another case of favoritism; anyone else being so cocky would be regarded as rude, but when navi does it it's cool and doesn't hurt their reputation for humility. There's plenty of other examples, but in general, the casters consistently framed successes by navi as outsmarting or outplaying the opponents while framing successes by chinese teams as either inevitable or unfortunate mistakes on navi's part. It, as well as claims of "robotic" play, dehumanized the chinese.
I honestly can't imagine the thing being more hostile without provoking a public outcry. And to be completely honest, I felt myself influenced by it as well, which further detracted from my viewing experience. I hope that this stops, or at least someone can take a middle ground that I can feel comfortable about, because as it is the unspoken tension made it at times really unpleasant to watch. I'd really like to see some more experienced TLer's refuse to take a part in this debate and instead work to educate the forum on chinese dota so that we can appreciate future victories better. We want dota 2 to be a united community, not another stage for political tensions.
I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
On September 03 2012 20:38 Oktyabr wrote: I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
On September 03 2012 19:21 Ramong wrote: well, think being a fan of the second best team in the world is okay :p
Sure IG will have/get a lot of fans after TI2, which is deserved. But na'vi getting second place is bound to get them a lot of fans as well.
The OP seems to think it would be better to be a fan of DK og LGD when this TI clearly showed they are worse than navi and getting 3rd for ldg and 4th? for DK.
Honestly the only thing I dislike is this mentality that every team from China are somehow better, when only 1 was able to beat navi
7 Asian teams were present and playing at the International(8 if you count AL I suppose, but they play western so much)
the top 8 consists out of 7 Asian teams(I guess you can make a case for AL, but AL plays western so much), China took 1st, 3d, fourth and some other places too China IS superior, Asian teams ARE superior , results show it.
but there is not such thing as china in dota. There is Chinese teams from china, but china itself ain't competing in dota. Its true that out of the top 8, 7 teams was Asian, but that is beside the point of this thread....
The op asked why people liked Na'vi and the answer is that they are the second best team in the world and that they did beat IG before the finals so they could easily have been the best.
And any team that do as well as na'vi does are bound to get fans, not like IG and LGD don't have fans either and only 1 of them beat navi.
On September 03 2012 20:38 Oktyabr wrote: I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
Imagine the games where held in china.
The same thing would happen... if not MORE
The chinese are crazy rabbit fanbois.
More? I'm not so sure boo-ing would occur there on this scale, but ok. I'd like to see Na'Vi play under those conditions too, to see if they're as mentally tough as the Chinese are.
On September 03 2012 20:38 Oktyabr wrote: I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
Did you see voting on the finals? 85% Navi 15% iG. Navi has a massive fanbase.
Well Navi is the only non-Asian that can stand up to the Chinese overlords. Same like how Stephano is one of the few that can stand up to the Koreans in SC2 Though,the Chinese teams deserved more credit.
When Lumi said: " No one expected iG to make to the finals " I was like ????????? If you followed Dota,you would know iG is the strongest team in Dota 1 and arguably the strongest Chinese team in Dota 2. Heck, iG and LGD were the heavy favorites going TI2.
On September 03 2012 20:38 Oktyabr wrote: I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
Did you see voting on the finals? 85% Navi 15% iG. Navi has a massive fanbase.
Well Navi is the only non-Asian that can stand up to the Chinese overlords. Same like how Stephano is one of the few that can stand up to the Koreans in SC2 Though,the Chinese teams deserved more credit.
When Lumi said: " No one expected iG to make to the finals " I was like ????????? If you followed Dota,you would know iG is the strongest team in Dota 1 and arguably the strongest Chinese team in Dota 2. Heck, iG and LGD were the heavy favorites going TI2.
Yeah, I knew the Chinese teams were entering TI2 as favorites because I watched the entire ACE league as well as G League games for the past 4 months. I knew beforehand that DK was in poor form and LGD and iG were just about even, and I was literally going to write Na'Vi off given the games they've shown for the past few months, while rooting for DK (out of sentiment) and LGD for their form.
Don't get me wrong, the final results do show that Na'Vi is more or less on par with LGD and iG (though iG has a way better head-to-head than Na'Vi). It's just that the atmosphere in Seattle seemed fairly poisonous for the Chinese.
On September 03 2012 20:38 Oktyabr wrote: I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
Imagine the games where held in china.
The same thing would happen... if not MORE
The chinese are crazy rabbit fanbois.
Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how it is in China...
Chinese e-sports audience seems much more cultured and actually cheers for the away team when they do well like when Na`Vi traveled to China for WDC 2011. Check out the ending moments of when Na`Vi took a playoff match against DK with Dendi Pudge.
Yes, the crowd was more favourable towards Navi but by no means BM towarsd IG or LGD.... And I could get totally behind that Naga-Ult booing and felt it was awesome how engaged the crowd was into the game. It was not like people were booing constantly at good places from the chinese, that ult just annoyed the hell out of everyone after some time ^^.
Na'Vi playstyle is just so much more exciting than that of the Chinese teams. The LB finals between iG and LGD was the most boring bo3 set I've ever watched. Game 2, 30 minutes in and the score was 2-6 or something. It was methodical and mechanically sound play, but just so boring to watch. The 'like' bar showed it too, being something like 30% downvotes or something.
People are a fan of Dendi and Na'Vi because they are the only non-asian team that can perform well against them and Dendi is a good dota role-model (looks, personality, playstyle and attitude), not only that, but he's a very skilled player and usually makes "highlight reel-esque" plays Also, as far as the crowd treating the chinese unfair goes, It's hard to be a fan of somebody who doesn't have much in common with you (language, culture etc.), it's like watching faceless heroes play due to not knowing the chinese personalities, however, I actually thought the crowd was more than fair as far as cheering goes so I'm not sure what you guys are talking about :D
People have probably said this before in the thread, but the main reasons: 1. He is very good at DOTA2. 2. He streams alott, people can "interact" with him. 3. He played for the winners on the firs TI, and won, as theier ace player. 4. He is innovative/entertaining.
And ofc, you got fantastic players from China, basically whole IG, LDG etc. but people dont know that much about them, they dont stream, they dont post videos on YouTube etc. When you dont interact with the community, its hard to get fans
On September 03 2012 20:38 Oktyabr wrote: I just felt really bad for the chinese that whenever the shoutcasters asked who were cheering for whichever chinese team, virtually no one responded. That's just so queer. Were there really absolutely no supporters of Chinese DOTA teams or were they all cowed by the Na'vi fanbase? It's unfortunate, really. It's almost like everyone is against the Chinese.
Imagine the games where held in china.
The same thing would happen... if not MORE
The chinese are crazy rabbit fanbois.
Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how it is in China...
Chinese e-sports audience seems much more cultured and actually cheers for the away team when they do well like when Na`Vi traveled to China for WDC 2011. Check out the ending moments of when Na`Vi took a playoff match against DK with Dendi Pudge.
I've never watched Dota before, tell me this, do asian teams act like they do in SC2? I.E. don't bother to learn english? In that case, they are themselves at fault for alienating the audience. Dendi doesn't speak english. Stephano doesn't speak english. Most foreigners don't speak English. And yet they do because they are part of the community. People like MC try to string a couple of words together, and the crowd goes wild. Because he didn't just come to take their money, he came to be part of the community and entertain.
well mainly becouse they come up with solutions not just pick/ban(like robots) what is considered good, and prove everybody else wrong pretty impressive imo
EPT
Also, as far as the crowd treating the chinese unfair goes, It's hard to be a fan of somebody who doesn't have much in common with you (language, culture etc.), it's like watching faceless heroes play due to not knowing the chinese personalities, however, I actually thought the crowd was more than fair as far as cheering goes so I'm not sure what you guys are talking about :D
