Blizzard asking Diamond level players to contribute to bal…

MilesTeg

France1271 Posts

August 03 2012 00:30 GMT

#221

SMH at everyone downplaying how hard it is to be in diamond as randon... you guys do realize it's a lot harder than focusing on one race right?

And I bet a lot of those comments come from self entitled master players or something like that. Well sorry, but you're probably not as good as those random diamonds, both when it comes to the game and certainly when it comes to opinion on balance.

There's always a lot of this ridiculous "if you're not top GM you suck" sentiment on this site, but this is really silly.

nkr

Sweden5451 Posts

August 03 2012 00:32 GMT

#222

On August 03 2012 08:41 superstartran wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 03 2012 08:36 nkr wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:12 superstartran wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:08 nkr wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:03 superstartran wrote:

On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.

The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?

Anyways...

DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL

too bad it's temporary

This is such a massive joke.

The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.

There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.

I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.

Average?

You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).

Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.

To be a professional player in tennis, you have an ATP point. That would put you in an elite category of like top 4000-5000 people in the world. That means out of all the tennis players out there, you are better than every single one except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.

It's a joke to believe that Coaches that have professional experience are bad players. They would kick your teeth in even at their age in their respective sport.

yah, and a diamond player would kick the the teeth in of every single person except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.

Redlol

United States181 Posts

August 03 2012 00:32 GMT

#223

I'll be honest, I came into this thread expecting to skim through it because the sensationalist title really killed the original post for me. However, there wasn't any original post to skim =(.

snively

United States1159 Posts

August 03 2012 00:37 GMT

#224

why is everyone so mad? i think this is really cool

superstartran

United States4013 Posts

August 03 2012 00:39 GMT

#225

On August 03 2012 09:32 nkr wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 03 2012 08:41 superstartran wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:36 nkr wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:12 superstartran wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:08 nkr wrote:

On August 03 2012 08:03 superstartran wrote:

Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.

yah, and a diamond player would kick the the teeth in of every single person except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.

Diamond is top 20% of the current population of players playing the game. That's not anywhere near close to an ATP pro.

frogmelter

United States971 Posts

August 03 2012 00:40 GMT

#226

Well, I live in Irvine and am looking for a job. I can also get to masters as random in a few days if I ladder [MMR reset when I was masters in season 3]. Maybe I'll apply.

Problem is I don't actually know much about any match ups besides army compositions, since I got there on my mechanics alone...

digmouse

China6332 Posts

August 03 2012 00:42 GMT

#227

The OP's title is too ignorant and misleading, Blizzard is asking for AT LEAST Diamond which means this is barely a minimum requirement for recruiting rather than an actual standard. I doubt if any Random Diamond player will ever make it into the team.

Heavenlee

United States966 Posts

August 03 2012 00:43 GMT

#228

Pretty amusing how much people shit on Blizzard for "bad balancing" when they've created three races with an insane variety of timings, for games that can go on for over 30 minutes, over a dozen units per race, etc. where there are somewhat standard builds but still a wide array of potential stylistic choices. Even if Brood War and other RTS's provided the template for this kind of game it's still impressive how good the game actually is. People act like this is somehow easy to do, then just whine incessantly when something seems remotely a bit too strong at a specific point of the game even though the metagame tends to sort itself out. This is clearly an attempt to belittle Blizzard for some kind of "low standards of designers" when I doubt they're trying to replace David Kim with a low diamond player.

tuho12345

4482 Posts

August 03 2012 00:48 GMT

#229

On August 03 2012 06:34 eviltomahawk wrote:

Show nested quote +

If only Gumiho and TLO were still random...

I hear that MVP's off-race is pretty good, especially his Zerg. Dunno if he can ever ladder as random, though.

MVP is top Korean GM with random at his prime time. Not sure now but he's ridiculously good.

EdenPLusDucky

571 Posts

August 03 2012 00:48 GMT

#230

I don't know about blizzard's decision on this. You can get into diamond as a random player by doing 1base allins or 2base timings each game and that doesn't really prove that you are knowledgeable enough to balance the game.

hiyo_bye

United States737 Posts

August 03 2012 00:50 GMT

#231

Awesome, I'm interested :D

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 03 2012 00:51 GMT

#232

It says a least a diamond player. That is like when they say at least 1-2 years experience, but they hire the guy with 5 years experience and a masters degree. The minimum requirements to apply are not the requirements to get the job.

Valon

United States329 Posts

August 03 2012 00:53 GMT

#233

They should be talking to pros about balance not diamond levels.

dragonblade369

Canada464 Posts

August 03 2012 00:54 GMT

#234

On August 03 2012 09:53 Valon wrote:
They should be talking to pros about balance not diamond levels.

This is the worst advice ever. Unlike popular beliefs, pros are extremely biased. After all, their job is to win.

EDIT: I'm not saying not to do it. But if that's the only way u suggest them to balance the game, then please redo some thinking.

sjschmidt93

United States2518 Posts

August 03 2012 00:54 GMT

#235

Well, obviously you don't need to be good at the game to have a brilliant understanding of it. But at the same time being good at it doesn't equate to understanding it.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 03 2012 00:57 GMT

#236

On August 03 2012 09:54 sjschmidt93 wrote:
Well, obviously you don't need to be good at the game to have a brilliant understanding of it. But at the same time being good at it doesn't equate to understanding it.

Or any ability to write well, work with a team or convey ideas clearly.

mordk

Chile8385 Posts

August 03 2012 01:00 GMT

#237

On August 03 2012 09:43 Heavenlee wrote:
Pretty amusing how much people shit on Blizzard for "bad balancing" when they've created three races with an insane variety of timings, for games that can go on for over 30 minutes, over a dozen units per race, etc. where there are somewhat standard builds but still a wide array of potential stylistic choices. Even if Brood War and other RTS's provided the template for this kind of game it's still impressive how good the game actually is. People act like this is somehow easy to do, then just whine incessantly when something seems remotely a bit too strong at a specific point of the game even though the metagame tends to sort itself out. This is clearly an attempt to belittle Blizzard for some kind of "low standards of designers" when I doubt they're trying to replace David Kim with a low diamond player.

People, I've learnt, and gamers in particular, are brutally critical about pretty much anything. Especially when under the cover of internet anonymity. People like to disregard other people's efforts without knowing anything at all about how much work it takes to create something.

Which is why forum discussions should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Darthsanta13

United States564 Posts

August 03 2012 01:01 GMT

#238

How can anyone who has ever applied for anything take this as "SC2 is now balanced by random diamonds"? The people getting jobs/scholarships/into college are never the ones who meet the bare minimum criteria. They're the ones that meet and far exceed the criteria. Not to mention other things they're looking for are "Prior experience balancing video games" and a ton of other things that actually WOULD qualify you to be an assistant game designer. Not to mention the job only includes that in a handful of other job duties, and that the job lasts 4-6 months. So they're obviously not hiring someone to take over balancing the game all by themselves.

Seriously, this is like reddit-level getting upset over nothing.

eviltomahawk

United States11135 Posts

August 03 2012 01:02 GMT

#239

On August 03 2012 08:54 0neder wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because having dedicated balance guys ruins the game and takes focus away from game design itself.

But the job ISN'T as a "dedicated balance guy." It's as an assistant game designer.

Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented assistant game designer

Balance is just one part of the job, as it should be. It even says in the job post that you'll also be involved in mapmaking and general game design. This is NOT a dedicated balancing job. It's a whole bunch of game design activities that the candidate will be an assistant to.

If people read the entire job posting instead of jumping to conclusions from the title and a few bolded parts of the posting, then there would be much less misunderstanding on what this job entails.

Wuster

1974 Posts

August 03 2012 01:05 GMT

#240

On August 03 2012 09:48 EdenPLusDucky wrote:
I don't know about blizzard's decision on this. You can get into diamond as a random player by doing 1base allins or 2base timings each game and that doesn't really prove that you are knowledgeable enough to balance the game.

Fortunately there's more to the hiring process than resume. I imagine a random diamond all-iner's interview will go like this:

Blizz: What's an area that you think is a balance problem based on your game experience?
n00b: PvP is too coin-flippy (he only says this because he was mad about the GSL finals, not from personal experience).
Blizz: Ok, what's your normal PvP strategy to get around the coin-flippiness.
n00b: Um, I find cannon-rush to be a good all-around opening (cannon rushes every game).
Blizz: Thank you for your time, please remember to get your parking validated at the front desk.

Seriously, imagine the rants and venting about frustrations you have with your friends over this game. And how fast you can tell if your friend is blowing off steam or raving nonsense (arghargh! Terran bulidings shouldn't fly that's so stupid!!!!). That's how the interview will go down. I wouldn't be surprised if they asked to see some replays too, just to see that people really know the matchups and how hard some strats are to pull off.

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