EPThacking DOES take skill, just not as much skill as playing a real legit game. by hacking you have to hide the fact that you're actually hacking, by not right-clicking his units so it doesn't show up in those apm chart things, and so on.
i actually recommend map hacking - Page 3
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Tossim1
714 Posts
hacking DOES take skill, just not as much skill as playing a real legit game. by hacking you have to hide the fact that you're actually hacking, by not right-clicking his units so it doesn't show up in those apm chart things, and so on. | ||
GTR
51560 Posts
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AmorVincitOmnia
Kenya3846 Posts
On January 02 2006 22:08 Tossim1 wrote: honestly, i agree with him. hacking DOES take skill, just not as much skill as playing a real legit game. by hacking you have to hide the fact that you're actually hacking, by not right-clicking his units so it doesn't show up in those apm chart things, and so on. So what's the point in it if you gain more from a legit game? | ||
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Xeroth
United States432 Posts
Makes the vision plan a little less stellar. | ||
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Hayuken
Sweden201 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
On January 02 2006 20:25 Murph wrote: Hum.. Well bro, you make a lot of good points. Only thing you fail to mention is what happens to your oponent.. It is copiously selfish. Sure, YOU might accelerate your improvements.. But at the sacrafice of others. For the person playing against you, they won't learn as well by having their opponent counter perfectly their every move, build, etc. I think your opponent will gain more than you will. There is no way that you're going to lose to any cheese or hidden strategies if you can see what they're doing, so esstentially the only way they can beat you is by outplaying you, and if both players are at the same level, thats quite the task for them. | ||
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YunhOLee
Canada2470 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
You people are actually debating this... Stimey wins!  | ||
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CoralReefer
Canada2069 Posts
just make sure he doesn't make any more of these kinds of threads | ||
BroOd
Austin10833 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
He's surely a great great player who has maphacked and imo got better from it. | ||
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KaasZerg
Netherlands927 Posts
! It can screw up his play beyond the games you played with him. ! He will be trying to find out WTF went wrong trying to change aspects that were good under normal play but sucked because you hacked. Trying to cover up that you hack in game, oh the agony of having to perform this actingclass. It outweights the advantages you get from the maphack. Oh poor Hacky. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
I've never hacked but there are times when my timing attacks failed miserably... Like worse than ever before and I always get curious... Like how the fuck u see a +1/speed timing rush when the ovie saw the citadel or forge and ran away seeing cyber.... | ||
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GTR
51560 Posts
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mitsy
United States1792 Posts
On January 02 2006 19:52 Patriot.dlk wrote: If your only point is the "use hack gain skill" then I mean, why? If one are that serious, serious enough to use a cheat then one really wouldn't need the cheat would one? My argument is that, whatever your level of seriousness or effort, hacking can increase the gains per time or per effort or however you measure it. Arguing that one "doesn't need" to hack if they are "serious" etc. therefore doesn't apply. For N seriousness, a person gains more with hack (properly used, see below) than not. That's my claim. I supported this claim in the initial post. You go on to say that "it might be true, but who cares?" It means that people are missing out by not hacking. On January 02 2006 19:53 Freezer_au wrote: Mitsy actually brings up some points that are interesting. I see hacking as evil and a way to not only cheat your opponent but also yourself. But it cannot be denied that a number of succesfull players got to where they are now with the aid of hacks. What I'm trying to challenge is the common sense notion that hacking is necessarily always "cheating yourself," and while we're on the subject, that it's necessarily cheating the opponent. Maybe if FrozenArbiter started map hacking (and hiding it well) he would provide opponents a much higher challenge--no harm, no foul. The important ingredient, whether talking about using it for your own improvement or to provide a greater opponent for others, is whether you truly honestly use it in such a way that remains plausibly non-hacking. This means that you stick to your knowledge as much as possible and NOT what the hack shows you. You use the hack to alter this knowledge for the purposes of future games. This means that you alter your patterns of scouting and decisions based on things you wouldn't see without tediously studying replays--but now you can do this while playing, generating many positive effects. If you don't honestly do this, you miss out. And if you don't test this with vision-off games, you also erode some abilities. I feel these points answer this: [QUOTE]On January 02 2006 20:12 SpeaKinRiddleS wrote: You can't develop a sense of timing if you become accustomed to just looking at what your opponent's doing everytime you're curious. Timing is infinitely more valuable than hacking as well, because your anti-builds will become more well-rounded. By hacking you're robbing yourself of the intuition it takes to beat an opponent shrouded by the fog of war. Hackers who turn their hacks off never know when to expect what. It's even more blatantly obvious to see than looking at the player's hotkeys. I'm saying you build multitasking abilities and knowledge by being able to keep everything going while understanding what your opponent is doing, and that you learn how their decisions line up with yours. You still must know how to scout them, and you can't change how you scout every game. You must follow a basic "blind" set of rules for scouting or people who see you game-to-game will know you hack. So if you remain plausibly non-hacking, you are simply improving and evolving your knowledge and gameplan and yes, timing, more efficiently, with hacking. Then, when you play with the hack off, you can more clearly say to yourself "i don't know if he's doing X or Y", but you already are used to facing this situation while you hacked, because you were already saying "i have to appear like i don't know if he's doing X or Y--so i play this way each game." [QUOTE]On January 02 2006 21:52 greatmeh wrote: Ehh, I suppose the 10000000 games these players who hacked once or twice are completly irrelevent?[/quote] We really don't know how many games they played while hacking and how quickly they improved while doing that. My theory is that playing with hack (while trying to appear legit, therefore keeping a consistent gameplan that stands up to scrutiny and is plausibly non-hacking behavior) will improve a player (both in raw skill, i.e. multitasking, and in knowledge/gameplan) more quickly than simply staring into that fog, wondering, trial and error, and checking the reps for info. [quote]this topic has been overly discused, it is dumb, childish and makes absolutely no sence whatsoever.[/quote] where has this been discussed before? i don't recall people challenging the assumption that hacking hurts the hacker and that it is a crutch before. i am here to suggest hacking can actually be good in some situations for the hacker and even for the opponent. if this is true, it's not dumb or childish at all. what doesn't make sense? [quote]You wanna be good? Then play 10000000 games and you will be. If you hack it will make you worse for when you don't hack. Its simple. It does not help your timing at all. I understand what you believe to make you think that it might be so. But you are so wrong. How the fuck would it help your timing? The only way it might is because you see what he is doing. How the fuck you exposed to know the timing if you can no longer see what your opponent is doing. It makes absolutely no sence at all and enrages the boiling lava within me when someone states this. [/QUOTE] This is what I am challenging. You say I am wrong, you say this is childish, but where is YOUR support? All you say is "X is false." I think I supported my arguments a bit better than that. The theory is that it takes less games to become better if you hack in the ways I've mentioned above. You simply say it won't. That's all anyone's said to challenge this so far in this thread. And THAT is childish and makes no sense. Where's the discussion? | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
He recommends map hack, others don't. The choice is still yours. Like Captn planet said... The Power.... is yours~ So learn from the Turner and make your own choice. I personally also think Map hack could help players get better and I would except I pride myself on never EVER EVER even having a map hack on my comp. | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On January 03 2006 01:35 SuperJongMan wrote: I mean, this is a recommendation from Stimey, not a law. He recommends map hack, others don't. The choice is still yours. Like Captn planet said... The Power.... is yours~ So learn from the Turner and make your own choice. I personally also think Map hack could help players get better and I would except I pride myself on never EVER EVER even having a map hack on my comp. lol amen to that On January 02 2006 21:08 iG....CoolT wrote: Yes hack may be good for skill for some people, but we still shouldn't allow it because I everyone hates to play against hackers in ladders like PGTour or WGTour. Hacks are things we must get rid of as quickly as possible. It allows people to see a Secret Hive Tech T_T | ||
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CommanderCheng
China68 Posts
I thought there wasn't map hack anymore but I was playing fastest 4v4 comps and the guys told me the colour and race of the computers so I guess it's still around. | ||
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