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On June 06 2012 22:30 Grovbolle wrote:
The best players are more interesting than scrubs who can't beat the best. This OP makes little sense and is generally racist.
Koreans are better, is it because they are Koreans, or because they practise more and better????? It's a mystery...
Exactly, It is better to watch Koreans and LEARN from them
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Oh not this shit again.
Does the word COMPETITION mean nothing to you?
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On June 06 2012 22:32 meadbert wrote:
There is a huge disconnect between Europeans and Americans regarding this issue. In Europe it is common to have rules regarding the number of foreigners allowed per league and per team, but the idea itself is totally foreign in America.
We do not limit the number of Latin Americans that play Major League Baseball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans that play Basketball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans or Canadians that play on American ice hockey teams.
American believe in letting the best play regardless of where they are from.
ESL and European leagues can be the leagues that keep out some of the best players for representing the wrong country, but in America lets keep letting the best compete against the best.
Nope we actually dont have such rules in europe where does that come from????
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If non Korean Pros actually depend on Koreans to get better, then you know where the error lies. If Koreans work together and share replays, then just don't practice with them. You don't need a korean to show you, how it's done. How did MKP got so good? He had noone to learn his splits from. Dudes you just need to work together as they do. Share your replays, discuss decision making and strategies and improve your fuckin mechanics!
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I somewhat agree with the OP. I also prefer the old MLG style where you had only americans and Socke
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On June 06 2012 22:26 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:23 shadymmj wrote:
the problem is that if u do that, it will be a big blow for the scene in korea. why have a 100 gosu players when only the 3 most gosu can show up at international tournaments? and the other 97 live off rice and canned tuna? So we should be more concerned about korean scene than international scene? Btw, was it that long ago when tourney outside of korea were without koreans and people were still very interested in them ?
well that only means you dont know much about history
without a big korean scene everything will collapse. in fact if we go back to 2001, if the BW explosion did not happen, sc2 will be a pretty good single player/MMO game today.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I'm not a fan of people saying that unless you are blind to nationality and only, exclusively care about game quality, you don't actually like Starcraft. Also, the people calling those who prefer non-koreans racist need to shut up, thats an insanely stupid thing to say.
For me, I don't have a problem when a Korean wins a tournament (though I prefer it if one of my favourite players does), and I don't think anything should be, or could be, done about that. What I don't like is when, as we have now, there is an international tournament with an overwhelming representation of Koreans in the bracket. It doesn't interest me at all, and I watch almost exclusively Korean tournaments outside of the major LAN events.
The whole point of these LANS is to see many different people from different places come together to compete, not to recreate a sub par GSL tournament with the less entertaining double elim format, with extended series, over the course of 2 days.
I wouldn't like a tournament if it was overwhelmingly Swedish, American, German, or Korean.
As to what can be done?
Who the fuck knows.
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The reason Koreans win everything is because they train longer and better. The only legitimate way to overcome this is to train the same way they do. Foreign players just need to step it up. Excluding the top talent from tournaments is NOT the way to go.
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It's MLG's choice whether they want the selling point of their tournaments to be the top level of play or whether they want the koreans vs rest of the world storyline. I'm glad they are currently choosing the first, as I don't notice what nationality a player is, but I can see why some people would prefer to watch the second option. So either way they choose will gain some viewers and alienate some others.
Obviously what MLG ideally want to capture both sets of fans, would be more foreigners practising harder and better, so more could compete at a high level. But as it stands now they have to make a business choice and they favour the highest level of play, and personally I'm happy with that.
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On June 06 2012 22:32 meadbert wrote:
There is a huge disconnect between Europeans and Americans regarding this issue. In Europe it is common to have rules regarding the number of foreigners allowed per league and per team, but the idea itself is totally foreign in America.
We do not limit the number of Latin Americans that play Major League Baseball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans that play Basketball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans or Canadians that play on American ice hockey teams.
American believe in letting the best play regardless of where they are from.
ESL and European leagues can be the leagues that keep out some of the best players for representing the wrong country, but in America lets keep letting the best compete against the best.
No European leagues ban foreigners from any of our sport.
I think Russian caps the number of foreign players but this is a country where fans throw banana's at black players so what do you expect from those clowns?
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I personally do not believe it has anything to do with practicing longer and harder. It may have to do with low level pros, but high level foreign pros practice a lot. The root of the problem is cultural. No one is establishing or wishes to establish to same scene korea has in the US or in Europe because it is culturally frowned upon and looked down on. It is as well in Korea, but in Korea they have more support to make it. I mean BW players parents go to their matches and get pissed when something bad happens, could you imagine your mother supporting you for a pro gaming career? This culture causes the players with the best potential to no be drawn out and therefore, the foreign scenes not getting the best players they can.
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On June 06 2012 22:34 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:26 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 shadymmj wrote:
the problem is that if u do that, it will be a big blow for the scene in korea. why have a 100 gosu players when only the 3 most gosu can show up at international tournaments? and the other 97 live off rice and canned tuna? So we should be more concerned about korean scene than international scene? Btw, was it that long ago when tourney outside of korea were without koreans and people were still very interested in them ? well that only means you dont know much about history without a big korean scene everything will collapse. in fact if we go back to 2001, if the BW explosion did not happen, sc2 will be a pretty good single player/MMO game today.
So without a big korean scene, SC2 will collapse.
Without a foreigner scene, SC2 will keep being how it is.
We're pretty much set to what's happening in the near future, we'll see what will come out of it.
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Austria24417 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:32 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:30 Dodgin wrote:
On a somewhat related note, I feel like a lot of people don't actually like the game but they like the drama surrounding it.
If your primary reason to watch Starcraft competition is not the gameplay then what are you doing here? Every other sport has his dramas as well and overall its just another interesting part of it. Low level players cant get enough out of the play to only concentrate on that so they choose to look at the drama as well. Every big and well known sport has that and that just shows how much the community grows. Its a good thing believe me.
It is in some ways but that doesn't mean a tournament like MLG should be built around that. Competition should always be the main priority.
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everyone is free to make a tournament to his or her liking, blizzard does national qualifiers to get players from each country, there are national or regional cups, tournaments for women... whatever as long a clear line is drawn that is fair.
the biggest events however, care for the best players, and that is absolutely right imo!
(though i really like this world championship approach too!)
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On June 06 2012 22:32 Bocian wrote:
As a casual viewer i agree with the OP. I didn't watched recent IPL finals because stephano was out earlier and there were only koreans. I like GSL and i love GSTL but I wanna see my FAVOURITE players on mlg not only koreans, even if the game level would be lesser.
Hey man, my favorite players got knocked out early too. You know, MMA, MKP, Polt.
We need less players in general so that these three have a better chance of making it to the finals (instead of 50% chance it would be 75%).
My point? It's not that your favorite players didn't make it to the finals. It's that all your favorite players are white dudes.
In fact, the way you phrased your statement makes it seem like you would prefer any foreigner over koreans. And yeah, that is racism, or something equally as stupid.
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What does it matter where the players come from ?! I just want to see the highest level of play.
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On June 06 2012 22:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:32 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:30 Dodgin wrote:
On a somewhat related note, I feel like a lot of people don't actually like the game but they like the drama surrounding it.
If your primary reason to watch Starcraft competition is not the gameplay then what are you doing here? Every other sport has his dramas as well and overall its just another interesting part of it. Low level players cant get enough out of the play to only concentrate on that so they choose to look at the drama as well. Every big and well known sport has that and that just shows how much the community grows. Its a good thing believe me. It is in some ways but that doesn't mean a tournament like MLG should be built around that. Competition should always be the main priority.
Exacly i agree totally.
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On June 06 2012 22:35 rushian wrote:
It's MLG's choice whether they want the selling point of their tournaments to be the top level of play or whether they want the koreans vs rest of the world storyline. I'm glad they are currently choosing the first, as I don't notice what nationality a player is, but I can see why some people would prefer to watch the second option. So either way they choose will gain some viewers and alienate some others.
Obviously what MLG ideally want to capture both sets of fans, would be more foreigners practising harder and better, so more could compete at a high level. But as it stands now they have to make a business choice and they favour the highest level of play, and personally I'm happy with that.
That's cool. Most here will agree with you. But most here are the hardcore players. Choosing the highest level of play is one way to go, but I don't think it'll be the way to grow foreign SC2.
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On June 06 2012 22:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:32 meadbert wrote:
There is a huge disconnect between Europeans and Americans regarding this issue. In Europe it is common to have rules regarding the number of foreigners allowed per league and per team, but the idea itself is totally foreign in America.
We do not limit the number of Latin Americans that play Major League Baseball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans that play Basketball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans or Canadians that play on American ice hockey teams.
American believe in letting the best play regardless of where they are from.
ESL and European leagues can be the leagues that keep out some of the best players for representing the wrong country, but in America lets keep letting the best compete against the best. No European leagues ban foreigners from any of our sport. I think Russian caps the number of foreign players but this is a country where fans throw banana's at black players so what do you expect from those clowns?
In France, we do, in soccer at least.
And pretty much all countries in Europe do for players "outside the EU".
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On June 06 2012 22:31 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:27 RageCommodore wrote:On June 06 2012 22:20 FakeDeath wrote:On June 06 2012 22:15 RageCommodore wrote:
Funny thing is that right now, the foreigner/korean competition is really good because a lot of foreigners seem to do what they should do: step up their game. Guys like Illusion have shown that you don't have to be Stephano to give top Koreans a run for their money. Seriously, this topic was brought up after MLG Anaheim last year, and now it's coming back... is this some kind of Anaheim curse? Illusion is a Korean =.= and I am talking about QuanticIllusion. Stephano is an exception of the foreigners where he actually has talent and can perform well against koreans. So you're basically saying that Illusion wouldn't be good if he wasn't of korean descent? You're pretty racist then if you think that way. I am trying to say that Koreans have more passion for the game than foreigner and hence work harder than foreigner. Therefore they post better results than foreigners. This is not called being a racist.There is a reason why Koreans outperform the foreigners.
This has to be the stupidest post I've seen yet. The main argument for korean domination is the infrastructure they have; team houses, great players to talk about the game with and an environment that lets them practice all day.
Illusion is a player without that infrastructure who can give koreans a good run for their money, and he's still young. The fact that he's of korean descent means nothing. And it sure as hell doesn't mean he has more passion for the game. Hell, being korean doesn't mean you have more passion for the game. Grow up.
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EPT
