EPTGSTL controversy [Spoiler alert] - Page 7
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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GoSuChicken
Germany1726 Posts
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
But they should at least add a save game feature like in wc3. Whenever someone started lagging you just hit "save game" and then went into your custom game folder and re-hosted it, was so simple and yet so awesome. I have very little hope that blizzard will even add that though, sometimes I think they release games on purpose with the minimum amount of features to sell the product. Yes I realize their games are top sellers but they have really gone to shit over the last few years, they spend 5+ years creating games and release them with tons of missing features. Chat channels, a bad user interface, no replays with friends, no lan. It's like all blizzard cares about now is releasing with enough to get by and then taking months-years to release simple features that people want. All in all don't expect blizzard to do anything about this, I lost faith in them along time ago. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On April 09 2012 00:52 Doodsmack wrote: Funny how people are exaggerating their math left and right. Just be accurate, it's not that hard. Clearly it wasn't 3 marauders vs all of Parting's army. It's been established many times that Parting didn't have his entire army at MKP's doorstep to fight his "3 marauders". You may still feel that Parting had a clear advantage even if your math was fixed, but that doesn't mean you should exaggerate your point. MKP would have more units out before he had to engage the entirety of Parting's army, unless Protoss has an ability to teleport units that have already been warped in that I'm not aware of. Maybe i was unclear. What i'm saying is that MKP lost production and had little to no army, if the game had continue for just two minutes or so Parting would be maxed with his superior army on MKP's doorstep. If both macro as good as they can protoss still reinforce faster and Parting had a ton more units from the start. | ||
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itiswhatitis
United States136 Posts
Unless someone is 100% winning with absolute zero chance of failing at the point the game lags out, there is a regame. The timing seems unfortunate for Parting, but it isn't anyone's fault but Bliz really. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On April 09 2012 00:58 psychotics wrote: i dont know why people think that making a solid argument for either side is going to change peoples minds.. lol MKP fans are gonna agree and ST fans are gonna disagree. these refs are professional's they know the game a hell of alot better then probably every one here, they had access to the replay (not random screen shots and the incredibly small amount of info gained from watching vods cause lets be honest so much of the relevant information at the time of the d/c was happening off camera. Why can people take this stance in the whole situation, "holy shit game 1 was awesome sucks that MKP dc'ed but holy shit we are now lucky enough to get a second game of these to amazing players going at it again" i mean come on as fans who we got to see MKP v Parting twice! mirror builds in both games what more could you want as a fan of SC2 You're seriously trying to argue that it was a good thing that the legitimacy of the competition was compromised by one player losing their hugely advantageous position against the other team's ace, who then went on to get a 3kill to secure the win? | ||
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On April 09 2012 00:55 canikizu wrote: 1) If you look at the vods throughout, when the observer selected MKP's units, you can see in his hotkey, he has like 17 raxes, so losing 3 raxes is really nothing. Assuming he stop producing Vikings because there's no collosus, 4 starports should get him 5 medivacs soon. 2) Even though Parting seemed to have really superior army (16 zealots, 8 stalkers, 8 HTs), at the time of the dc, thank to the obersever 1 second before the dc, he let us see the total army in the front hitting the raxes, which only 9 zealots and 6 stalkers. And also literally 1 second before the dc, we can see Parting's HTs number increase from 1 to 8, which means he just warp in fresh HT from base, which will not contribute to the fight for the next 2 minutes or so. Parting also had units rally up to the fight, we don't know how much though. Parting had no splash units (sure he can make archon, but they're not gonna be in the fight for the next minutes or so) The units he has at that time only gateway units. 3) Parting was on 2 or 3 bases, not 5 bases, thank to the observer showing his natural completely dried out and probe transferring to the fresh bases. 4) In the downtime Kaldor said MKP has 1,2 rounds of units queuing up in the raxes. MKP also had 71 SCV + mules, which should give him a good income to continue the fight for a while. 5) Warp prism provide no advantage whatsoever because of the vikings. 6) Don't forget the player has imperfect knowledge. Parting, MKP don't know about each other forces, for all we know, Parting might just play safe, retreating after kill 3 raxes, or push up a little bit, but when seeing the sight of marauder + medivac, he will retreat, or he will gonna kill 1 expansion and retreat, or MKP raise the supply depot to hold the push or this or that blah blah. In my opinion, at that time of the dc, Parting clearly has advantage, but the game will not gonna end in the next 1,2 minutes or so. MKP may have to retreat to the main, MKP may have to pull scvs to hold the gateway units, but there's no way Parting can outright hit all the bases at the same time, win the game with 9 zealots and 6 stalkers against a bunch of bio and medivacs and scv. Parting will have a big advantage after the fight, he might expand more, get max out and push again, but the game is not gonna end in the next 1,2 minutes. It might take another 5 minutes to end the game, and there were too many variable in 5 minutes. Obviously bases mine out, and MKP's had aswell. The fact of the matter is that MKP had just finished his 5th base (no gases up), while parting already had his 5th base completely saturated for a few minutes. Anyone who says MKP had the better economy is wrong. And anyone who says we should look at MKP's production should also check out Parting's production. Just because MKP has a lot of barracks doesn't mean Parting doesn't have a lot of Gateways, which are producing stronger forces than those barracks. Overall, it is sad that MKP dropped and there had to be a decision at all. Because yes somehow MKP could have come back to win that, so you can't say 100% that Parting should get the victory, and therefore you can't award him the win. But giving a regame is much worse for Parting, who had already played 2 games before that. And demoralizing from the point of view that while it would have been awkward to get a win where the other player didn't GG, Parting had a very clear advantage. If the game had continued, no one can argue Parting is ahead by a good margin. A better solution would have been to turn it into a best of three with Parting up one game. By using a simple regame, every advantage Parting had gained by the end was turned into nothing. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On April 09 2012 01:06 karpo wrote: Maybe i was unclear. What i'm saying is that MKP lost production and had little to no army, if the game had continue for just two minutes or so Parting would be maxed with his superior army on MKP's doorstep. If both macro as good as they can protoss still reinforce faster and Parting had a ton more units from the start. But this is exactly why you need a regame. You don't KNOW for sure what parting is going to do. How do you know he won't keep pushing without remaxing and overextend himself? How do you know if he goes back and extend, MKP wouldn't have be able to gather enough of an army to outmicro Parting's bigger army (like he had been the whole game); the players don't know the same information as we do, you really have to remember that. Also, the players might not play perfectly or as logically as we think; Bomber's game was a perfect example when he could of easily stayed in his base with twice the economy and one base up and won when he maxes out first. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
It'd be nice to see though. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On April 09 2012 01:04 SuperYo1000 wrote: I dont agree with the regame...just because regames are stupid. To much controversy in it. Just make it a flat rule that in the event of a dc the player in the lead gets the win. Im not even a parting fan. In fact I think he is a bit overrated but this would at least give people much less to argue about It would still be a lot of controversy about it, the only difference would be that in this case Parting would've won. I think a regame was the fairer of two horrible choices. People mention a Bo3 with Parting up 1-0, but GOM can't just announce a rule like that mid tourney and even mid-series. If they could/would, that'd open up for a ton of rigging possibilities. So they go ahead with their rule of "regame if not clear winner", which is only logical. It's kind of a shame that the DC didn't happen like 5-10 seconds earlier, where both were pretty even, but everything considered I feel MKP was still in this game, though he had blown the lead he had through most of the game and gave it to Parting(by his stubborn I will not make vikings against colossi -.-). | ||
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
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Aeceus
United Kingdom1278 Posts
On April 08 2012 21:31 Clogon wrote: a warp prism. All of Partings other units were at his main with no foward pylons. lol... do you even realise? | ||
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itiswhatitis
United States136 Posts
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On April 09 2012 01:13 Chriscras wrote: So who is going to be the first to meticulously recreate this game based on the VODs in order to see if Marineking could have comeback? Would be impossible to determine even if we can, because no one can actually play like MKP | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
I'd like to see what more korean pros thought about it, personally. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
Honestly, if they just awarded the win to Parting, without finishing the game and without regame, the result would have felt as much compromised as it did otherwise. It was a lose-lose situation for esports the moment this whole fail happened. | ||
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mewo
United States221 Posts
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halfies
United Kingdom327 Posts
if it had been any other 2 players it wouldnt be such a big deal | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
Oh, and one more thing - LOL at everyone mad at MKP and saying they're not his fans anymroe - it wasn't his decision, and no, not even he could predict an end to that match. It wouldn't have been honest for him to open his mouth and say "I was dead anyway" - he had no idea what Parting's situation was (he doesn't have shared vision) whereas the refs did, who apparently decided that game was too close to call. | ||
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