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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 23 2012 09:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:14 Ballistixz wrote:On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here. so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun. thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed... I know plenty of people who carry and they are nice people. Carrying a gun doesnt make a person bad. Witness said that it was Zimmerman on the ground.
so what...? knowing someone with that carries a gun=/= not knowing someone that is carrying a gun. he could easily be out to rob you or something, you have no clue. why the hell just assume someone that is following you with a gun and that you DONT KNOW is a good guy?
you honestly sound like someone who can easily be robbed if you are that damn naive....
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On March 23 2012 09:18 oni_link wrote:
haters gonna hate, and this guy zimmermann was just looking for trouble in my opinion, poor thing the US law doesnt treat non-whites like whites. I say bring out the trash and hang this guy please, im a huge fan of the death sentence when it comes to hate crimes.
lol. its like moths to the flame. everyone assumes its a white on black hate crime. they were both minorities (Hispanic and black).
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The police really screwed up here, if you look into the story, the police had the child's cellphone, and did not even attempt to contact the family. The family of the child went three days searching for their child before finding out he was dead, all the while the police were sitting there with a phone with 'dad' and 'mom' on the contact list.
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On March 23 2012 09:16 Saryph wrote:
I like how when you're faced with the story of 'a guy in his late 20s follows an underage minor in his car, gets out and chases him down with a gun, and in the end it comes down to a confrontation where the man shoots the child' you have people taking the side of the man in his 20s with the gun, and criticizing the underage MINOR for defending himself.
If you were 17 and someone twice your size was chasing you with a gun, would you not consider him a massive threat to your life?
It seems as though the SYG law applies to the child and not Zimmerman. If he had killed Zimmerman instead I wonder if the police would have arrested him.
He probably did not even reveal the weapon until he used it or Tray found it on him. But its pretty irrelevent because it would be scary regardless of whether you could see if he was armed or not.
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I remember when I played WoW, a black guy in our guild went outside to help bring in groceries. It was dark outside and police stopped to question him. Nothing serious happened, but we heard this normally chill guy get pretty upset explaining the delay. If Treyvon Martin got angry, I don't blame him.
Zimmerman may have had good intentions in the past, and sadly his year of neighborhood watch duty may have reinforced any racial prejudices, but he obviously lacked the chain of command and discipline to do what was right the night he approached Treyvan. I don't believe whatever he did was self defense. The most innocent I can possibly paint him with the little I know now, is that he started a fight and finished it. The truth is probably worse.
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On March 23 2012 09:19 Saryph wrote:
The police really screwed up here, if you look into the story, the police had the child's cellphone, and did not even attempt to contact the family. The family of the child went three days searching for their child before finding out he was dead, all the while the police were sitting there with a phone with 'dad' and 'mom' on the contact list.
i find this incredibly hard to believe. three days not knowing where their kid was or what happened? the kid went to visit a friend, left the house, he was talking to the girl on the phone when it went down supposedly, she told him to run away, the kid is shot, the police come to the neighborhood and everything gets cordoned off (sirens, yellow tape, the whole works). you dont think the girl or her family would figure out what happened that same night? you dont think they would tell the parents? come on people, use your brains.
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On March 23 2012 09:19 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:16 Saryph wrote:
I like how when you're faced with the story of 'a guy in his late 20s follows an underage minor in his car, gets out and chases him down with a gun, and in the end it comes down to a confrontation where the man shoots the child' you have people taking the side of the man in his 20s with the gun, and criticizing the underage MINOR for defending himself.
If you were 17 and someone twice your size was chasing you with a gun, would you not consider him a massive threat to your life?
It seems as though the SYG law applies to the child and not Zimmerman. If he had killed Zimmerman instead I wonder if the police would have arrested him.
He probably did not even reveal the weapon until he used it or Tray found it on him. But its pretty irrelevent because it would be scary regardless of whether you could see if he was armed or not.
When I hear the 911 tape of his death, I hear the sound of sheer terror in the voice of the one screaming for help. I think it's because he saw a gun and knew he was about to be shot. Just my opinion though.
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On March 23 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:19 Saryph wrote:
The police really screwed up here, if you look into the story, the police had the child's cellphone, and did not even attempt to contact the family. The family of the child went three days searching for their child before finding out he was dead, all the while the police were sitting there with a phone with 'dad' and 'mom' on the contact list. i find this incredibly hard to believe. three days not knowing where their kid was or what happened? the kid went to visit a friend, left the house, he was talking to the girl on the phone when it went down supposedly, she told him to run away, the kid is shot, the police come to the neighborhood and everything gets cordoned off (sirens, yellow tape, the whole works). you dont think the girl or her family would figure out what happened that same night? you dont think they would tell the parents? come on people, use your brains.
for all they know there son could be alive and the event that happened was completely seprate.... either way, the police should have contacted the family immediately.
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On March 23 2012 09:19 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:On March 23 2012 09:14 Ballistixz wrote:On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here. so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun. thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed... I know plenty of people who carry and they are nice people. Carrying a gun doesnt make a person bad. Witness said that it was Zimmerman on the ground. so what...? knowing someone with that carries a gun=/= not knowing someone that is carrying a gun. he could easily be out to rob you or something, you have no clue. why the hell just assume someone that is following you with a gun and that you DONT KNOW is a good guy? you honestly sound like someone who can easily be robbed if you are that damn naive....
And you sound like someone who screams murder when they see a gun.
How would he know if he had a gun in the first place?
People you pass in the street outside could be carrying and you wouldnt know.
As I said, carrying a gun doesnt make you a bad person.
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On March 23 2012 09:18 oni_link wrote:
haters gonna hate, and this guy zimmermann was just looking for trouble in my opinion, poor thing the US law doesnt treat non-whites like whites. I say bring out the trash and hang this guy please, im a huge fan of the death sentence when it comes to hate crimes.
Well at least the media does. They are treating Zimmerman as though he were White for the sake of stirring up racial controversy (and thus ratings), when in reality he is a mixed race Hispanic.
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On March 23 2012 09:16 Saryph wrote:
I like how when you're faced with the story of 'a guy in his late 20s follows an underage minor in his car, gets out and chases him down with a gun, and in the end it comes down to a confrontation where the man shoots the child' you have people taking the side of the man in his 20s with the gun, and criticizing the underage MINOR for defending himself.
If you were 17 and someone twice your size was chasing you with a gun, would you not consider him a massive threat to your life?
It seems as though the SYG law applies to the child and not Zimmerman. If he had killed Zimmerman instead I wonder if the police would have arrested him.
It isn't clear at all who the aggressor and who the defender was. Different people/sources have different stories. I could just as easily spin the facts to make you sound as silly as you made the opposing side sound in you post, watch:
"I like how when you're faced with the story of a teenager who was suspended from school and who lays in wait to violently ambush a neighborhood watchman who was trying to keep everyone safe that you immediately take the side of the kid without realizing that he started the fight and that he had the guy pinned to the ground, beating him in the face. How can you criticize someone trying to keep others safe for DEFENDING HIMSELF!?!?!"
You can spin it both ways!! Don't act like all the facts are straightforward.
If Martin had killed Zimmerman and claimed self-defense, it seems like an arrest would also not have been made in that case.
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On March 23 2012 09:19 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:18 oni_link wrote:
haters gonna hate, and this guy zimmermann was just looking for trouble in my opinion, poor thing the US law doesnt treat non-whites like whites. I say bring out the trash and hang this guy please, im a huge fan of the death sentence when it comes to hate crimes. lol. its like moths to the flame. everyone assumes its a white on black hate crime. they were both minorities (Hispanic and black).
39 pages later and we're still going back to Zimmermann is a White nazi racist that was just chasing down black kids to kill them
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On March 23 2012 09:24 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:19 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:16 Saryph wrote:
I like how when you're faced with the story of 'a guy in his late 20s follows an underage minor in his car, gets out and chases him down with a gun, and in the end it comes down to a confrontation where the man shoots the child' you have people taking the side of the man in his 20s with the gun, and criticizing the underage MINOR for defending himself.
If you were 17 and someone twice your size was chasing you with a gun, would you not consider him a massive threat to your life?
It seems as though the SYG law applies to the child and not Zimmerman. If he had killed Zimmerman instead I wonder if the police would have arrested him.
He probably did not even reveal the weapon until he used it or Tray found it on him. But its pretty irrelevent because it would be scary regardless of whether you could see if he was armed or not. When I hear the 911 tape of his death, I hear the sound of sheer terror in the voice of the one screaming for help. I think it's because he saw a gun and knew he was about to be shot. Just my opinion though.
That was Zimmermans screams as said by witnesses.
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On March 23 2012 09:21 Ansinjunger wrote:
I remember when I played WoW, a black guy in our guild went outside to help bring in groceries. It was dark outside and police stopped to question him. Nothing serious happened, but we heard this normally chill guy get pretty upset explaining the delay. If Treyvon Martin got angry, I don't blame him.
Zimmerman may have had good intentions in the past, and sadly his year of neighborhood watch duty may have reinforced any racial prejudices, but he obviously lacked the chain of command and discipline to do what was right the night he approached Treyvan. I don't believe whatever he did was self defense. The most innocent I can possibly paint him with the little I know now, is that he started a fight and finished it. The truth is probably worse.
I'm black as well.
You never seen the movie "Boyz N the Hood" with Cuba Gooding Jr.? Him and Ricky got pulled over by two police officers for no reason in their own neighborhood. One of the police officers was black and he pointed a gun at Trey (Cuba Gooding) and said "I hate you niggas, always causing trouble. You must be one of those crenshaw mafia mother*****!"
It was a fictional movie, but there is some truth to that movie. Some police still do stereotype.
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On March 23 2012 09:25 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 09:19 Saryph wrote:
The police really screwed up here, if you look into the story, the police had the child's cellphone, and did not even attempt to contact the family. The family of the child went three days searching for their child before finding out he was dead, all the while the police were sitting there with a phone with 'dad' and 'mom' on the contact list. i find this incredibly hard to believe. three days not knowing where their kid was or what happened? the kid went to visit a friend, left the house, he was talking to the girl on the phone when it went down supposedly, she told him to run away, the kid is shot, the police come to the neighborhood and everything gets cordoned off (sirens, yellow tape, the whole works). you dont think the girl or her family would figure out what happened that same night? you dont think they would tell the parents? come on people, use your brains. for all they know there son could be alive and the event that happened was completely seprate.... either way, the police should have contacted the family immediately.
did i forget to mention that the girl was supposedly on the phone with him while it happened? if he didnt show up after that, do you think they would say "hey, maybe he went home instead of coming back here. nothing to worry about here everyone?"
i assume cops have rules about notifying next of kin. you dont just grab the phone and start calling people (we dont even know if his parents were identified as mom and dad; my phone has their first names, not mom and dad).
maybe they did delay calling the parents for whatever reason, but three days? come on. you seriously believe that?
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On March 23 2012 09:27 Lockitupv2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:24 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 09:19 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:16 Saryph wrote:
I like how when you're faced with the story of 'a guy in his late 20s follows an underage minor in his car, gets out and chases him down with a gun, and in the end it comes down to a confrontation where the man shoots the child' you have people taking the side of the man in his 20s with the gun, and criticizing the underage MINOR for defending himself.
If you were 17 and someone twice your size was chasing you with a gun, would you not consider him a massive threat to your life?
It seems as though the SYG law applies to the child and not Zimmerman. If he had killed Zimmerman instead I wonder if the police would have arrested him.
He probably did not even reveal the weapon until he used it or Tray found it on him. But its pretty irrelevent because it would be scary regardless of whether you could see if he was armed or not. When I hear the 911 tape of his death, I hear the sound of sheer terror in the voice of the one screaming for help. I think it's because he saw a gun and knew he was about to be shot. Just my opinion though. That was Zimmermans screams as said by witnesses.
Who didn't actually witness anything. Except they saw two people fighting? They don't know who was screaming either, they assumed to know, and it seems like cops helped their assumption, which is pretty sad.
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On March 23 2012 09:25 Lockitupv2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:19 Ballistixz wrote:On March 23 2012 09:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:On March 23 2012 09:14 Ballistixz wrote:On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here. so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun. thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed... I know plenty of people who carry and they are nice people. Carrying a gun doesnt make a person bad. Witness said that it was Zimmerman on the ground. so what...? knowing someone with that carries a gun=/= not knowing someone that is carrying a gun. he could easily be out to rob you or something, you have no clue. why the hell just assume someone that is following you with a gun and that you DONT KNOW is a good guy? you honestly sound like someone who can easily be robbed if you are that damn naive.... And you sound like someone who screams murder when they see a gun. How would he know if he had a gun in the first place? People you pass in the street outside could be carrying and you wouldnt know. As I said, carrying a gun doesnt make you a bad person.
someone following u in a car, continues to follow u for a good while, then gets out of his car and starts to run after you. good guy right?
ya, idk what to say to you really.
sure a gun doesnt make you a bad person, but you are completly ignoring the actual facts of what happened. the guy only had tea and skittles. why would u think he was "up to no good" or "is on drugs" in the first place? why would u feel the need to chase him down with a gun? WHY? what was he gonna do? commit a unarmed robbery with while slapping someone across the face with a bag of skittles? are you kidding me?
what would lead you to do something like that?
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On March 23 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:19 Saryph wrote:
The police really screwed up here, if you look into the story, the police had the child's cellphone, and did not even attempt to contact the family. The family of the child went three days searching for their child before finding out he was dead, all the while the police were sitting there with a phone with 'dad' and 'mom' on the contact list. i find this incredibly hard to believe. three days not knowing where their kid was or what happened? the kid went to visit a friend, left the house, he was talking to the girl on the phone when it went down supposedly, she told him to run away, the kid is shot, the police come to the neighborhood and everything gets cordoned off (sirens, yellow tape, the whole works). you dont think the girl or her family would figure out what happened that same night? you dont think they would tell the parents? come on people, use your brains.
• What happened to Martin's cellphone? Reports abound that Martin's parents were not informed of his murder until they contacted police to report him missing, despite having his cellphone is feeding further scepticism about the police's conduct. It led New York Times columnist Charles Blow to tweet on Monday urging his followers to make his Tweet trend "Where is Trayvon Martin's cellphone?"
Right there the article linked from the OP claims that the Martin family did not find out until they tried to report Treyvon missing. Admittedly almost all the articles on the issue have some sort of bias in them, but apparently there was enough of a buzz that a New York Times columnist posted on twitter about it.
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So those who think Zimmerman wasn't the one screaming, I'm trying to understand how you see this happening... Zimmerman was doing what to make the kid scream? Pointing a gun at him for 30 seconds until he screamed and got witnesses attention and then shot him on the ground unprovoked and unarmed? Was he pummeling the kid while he screamed for help and then after beating him up decides to shoot him dead? I'm just having such a hard time picturing any scenario where this makes sense.
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On March 23 2012 07:21 Zaqwe wrote:Zimmerman's account of self-defense is corroborated by a witness who saw Trayvon attacking Zimmerman while Zimmerman was pinned on the ground screaming for help. Show nested quote + All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media. - The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
- The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
- Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
- Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.
The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important. http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin
Self-defense means fuck-all if Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. Why? because Trayvin can claim this moronic Castle law also the only difference is he wasn't armed with a gun. How would you feel if a much larger individual was following you on late at night? Thats what seems to be lost in this case. The police said he didn't need to follow him let alone confront him.
I'm not advocating the notion that you need to hold back but if you are given the option of not initiating the confrontation in the first place, you, in a society of laws are obligated to not initiate the confrontation.
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