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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way.
If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently.
Edit: Have you ever been to Miami?
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On March 23 2012 09:01 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 08:57 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:50 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 23 2012 08:45 Lockitupv2 wrote:On March 23 2012 08:37 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 23 2012 08:31 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:24 Irave wrote:On March 23 2012 07:59 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 07:57 Atoissen wrote:On March 23 2012 07:42 Zaqwe wrote:
[quote]
Fortunately, no Western democracy I am aware of considers being followed justification for assaulting someone.
Zimmerman had every right to be on public property, scrutinize people on public property, or even speak to people and ask them what they are doing. "Funny" thing is, if Zimmerman had not used he's "right" to stalk someone and ask them what they were doing, one more kid would have been sitting home in he's sofa eating skittles, and not dead in a coffin... I dont know all the facts here, but I do not think it is Zimmerman screaming for help on that tape, doesnt sound like the same voice as from the phone call. Who calls 911, 46(?) times in 2 months? ... the 46 calls were over I believe about 10 years not 2 months, it is a mistake they made in the article which was later corrected. It was 46 calls in ONE year not 10. The calls range from suspicious black man walking down the street, to my neighbors garage door is open and kids playing in the street. Zimmerman wanted to be a police officer, but he didn't cut it at the police academy. So he tried his best to bring justice in the form of a neighborhood watch. His actions went too far this time. This is the first I have heard about Zimmerman being in the police academy. Do you have a source for this or is it just more over the top fictional dramatization? http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706804/lawmaker-presses-justice-for-trayvon.html Citizen Police Academy is not even close to what you are thinking of. Hmm? I'm not thinking of anything lol. I just read a comment that wanted a source, so I typed "police academy Zimmerman" into Google and picked out the most relevant article. You guys can dissect it and decide what you want about what kind of police academy it was, etc. I guess the conclusion is that it was a citizen's police academy, and not a police academy. Right. Okay. Moving on..? Wasn't the dude who originally brought it up just trying to paint a picture of a guy a little too concerned with police activities? I feel like this still supports that point, even if it's not really that significant. How exactly can someone be "too concerned" with police activities? If everyone cared about the law and protecting their neighbors as much as Zimmerman maybe Miami wouldn't be so crime ridden. that is very very biased and flawed. if that was the case you could easily just kill someone in cold blood that you "think" was committing a crime and just say you were acting in self defense. oh wait... a untrained citizen has no right to try and be a "hero" or a vigilante and stop a crime. all they have to do is report it to the police and let them handle it. they do not have to follow someone around all night ffs. that not only puts yourself in danger, but it can also lead up to innocent blood being spilt for no reason other than ignorance
I don't think the term "in cold blood" applies to shooting someone who has you pinned to the ground and is beating you in the head while you scream for help.
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46 calls in 10 years is nothing. I call and report freeway fires, suspicous people, people smoking weed/dealing drugs, abandoned cars etc. Maybe its because I'm a security guard and it's hard for me not to act like one in my off time. But I call 911 or non emergency police about 10+ times a year in my personal time.
also that zimmerman dude is the only one who committed a crime. RIP kid.
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On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami?
If I lived in that neighborhood I would be happy to see people like Zimmerman who were looking out for my safety, and would have no issue engaging him in conversation if he asked me what I was doing.
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On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way.
so, assumptions are being made that zimmerman was the one being attacked? is that cold hard fact? because i highly doubt a 250lb man would get overpowered by a 140lb 17 year old, i just dont find it feasible.
2ndly the guy had a gun, if someone was following me around with a gun then no shit id either run or defend myself. you just dont do shit like that, you just dont...
i dont know what world you live in to where it is "ok" for a ARMED 28 year old stranger to fucking stalk a UNARMED 17 year old that was only carrying a can of tea and skittles, but it must be a very messed up place. -_-
On March 23 2012 09:08 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? If I lived in that neighborhood I would be happy to see people like Zimmerman who were looking out for my safety, and would have no issue engaging him in conversation if he asked me what I was doing.
are you trolling...? please tell me you are trolling...
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On March 23 2012 09:06 FullNatural wrote:
46 calls in 10 years is nothing. I call and report freeway fires, suspicous people, people smoking weed/dealing drugs, abandoned cars etc. Maybe its because I'm a security guard and it's hard for me not to act like one in my off time. But I call 911 or non emergency police about 10+ times a year in my personal time.
also that zimmerman dude is the only one who committed a crime. RIP kid.
I bet the cops laughed at you. At least thats what they do here. Hahahahah
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At the start of this thread I was thinking "Wow, what a travesty that this horrible guy is still free." Now, after additional facts and corrections have been presented I am just disgusted that the media clearly misrepresented things to create a larger controversy.
It is looking more and more like this is just an unfortunate series of events rather than a malicious, homicidal, racist killing a kid in cold blood. I hope that everyone involved can find some peace. No matter how this turns out everyone involved will have a lot of sadness in their lives; Zimmerman has to live with having ended someone's life, and Trayvon's family wont ever see him again.
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On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami?
So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here.
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Zaqwe you were obviously bullied or beat up in the past and are having severe problems dealing with it.
Some of the facts are undisputed: one guy had a gun and was following another guy around. One guy was unarmed and tried to avoid the confrontation. The guy with the gun wasn't harmed - a running nose doesn't count. The unarmed guy is dead.
I guess you call that self defense (?) but where I live we call that murder in the 1st degree. Maybe that's why we have 2-4 murders per year nationwide.
You seriously believe getting punched after you've been harassing someone justifies shooting a person? You were talking about dystopias a few pages ago. A place where every minor altercation ends in a gunfight absolutely sounds like one.
User was warned for this post
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On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here.
Not but clearly he has no fucking clue what he is talking about. He is making assumptions based on how he would react. A lot of people live in Miami. A lot of people live in FL. It also happens that the crime rate in FL and Miami are exceptionally high. If you had ever been there, you might know that putting your nose in other peoples business is not really welcome. Miami is the ghetto outside of Disney World, there are lots of drugs and lots of gangs. Its probably one of the Hyphiest places on earth (hue hue hue). Its not a small town where people wave at you when you pass by. Its a big city where people throw gang signs and threaten you for wearing the wrong colors.
Edit: I'm not saying all Miami is like this. But I have been there a handful of times and even when I was a kid I knew it was not a friendly or safe place. At least compared to the small town where I live. Its a big city, with a big ghetto.
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On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here.
We don't know what Zimmerman did to instigate the kid. Though with how this law seems to work, it would have been better if Martin was a thug. He could have just shot him and finished his walk.
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On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here.
so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? would u not fucking run for your life? and guess what, martin did run. and what happened? zimmerman CHASED HIM WITH A GUN. now you are being chased by a complete stranger with a gun and perhaps been cornered. now what do you do?
also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun and even ran after him with that gun.... thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed...
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Regardless of what the crime rate is, what Zimmerman did is NOT stalking under Florida law. Go read the statute yourself if you want to, it is easy to find. The key point is that to be guilty of stalking you have to follow/harass someone repeatedly over time.
Zimmerman MAY have been guilty of the crime of 'menacing' (as wrongspeedy pointed out a while ago) but that turns on 2 important facts:
(1) Does Florida have such a law against menacing? It might but I still haven't found it
(2) Did Martin have any reason to believe that Zimmerman had a gun? If Zimmerman drew his gun and approached Martin it could be menacing, but if the gun was holstered then it is a harder sell.
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On March 23 2012 09:14 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here. so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun. thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed...
he had a concealed gun permit. how do you know that the kid even knew about the gun before zimmerman spoke with him? so many assumptions.
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I like how when you're faced with the story of 'a guy in his late 20s follows an underage minor in his car, gets out and chases him down with a gun, and in the end it comes down to a confrontation where the man shoots the child' you have people taking the side of the man in his 20s with the gun, and criticizing the underage MINOR for defending himself.
If you were 17 and someone twice your size was chasing you with a gun, would you not consider him a massive threat to your life?
It seems as though the SYG law applies to the child and not Zimmerman. If he had killed Zimmerman instead I wonder if the police would have arrested him.
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On March 23 2012 09:14 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here. so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun. thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed...
I know plenty of people who carry and they are nice people.
Carrying a gun doesnt make a person bad.
Witness said that it was Zimmerman on the ground.
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haters gonna hate, and this guy zimmermann was just looking for trouble in my opinion, poor thing the US law doesnt treat non-whites like whites. I say bring out the trash and hang this guy please, im a huge fan of the death sentence when it comes to hate crimes.
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Zaqwe is obviously trolling. He made up a new account just to piss people off or to let out his closet racism. Don't waste your time with him.
On March 23 2012 09:08 Zaqwe wrote:
Show nested quote +
If I lived in that neighborhood I would be happy to see people like Zimmerman who were looking out for my safety, and would have no issue engaging him in conversation if he asked me what I was doing.
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On March 23 2012 09:14 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:08 hunts wrote:On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? So if he went to Miami he would learn that it is normal and acceptable to pin someone to the ground and beat them in the head because they followed you and asked you what you were doing? You're not making much sense here. so if someone was following u wielding a gun, u would just think "oh hey, he is a nice guy"? would u not fucking run for your life? and guess what, martin did run. and what happened? zimmerman CHASED HIM WITH A GUN. now you are being chased by a complete stranger with a gun and perhaps been cornered. now what do you do? also, him being pinned to the ground getting beat on is not fact. even if it was then it could also easily be interpreted as self defense since the guy was stalking him with a gun. thats why the "stand your ground" rule is flawed...
1: He had a concealed gun license, the gun was concealed, I would not know that he had a gun. I would certainly not jump them from the back, pin them to the ground, start beating them in the head, and continue doing so as they yelled for help. there is no evidence that he CHASED HIM as you put it, you are making up stuff. In fact so far the only evidence we have about how the fight started, is zimmermans word that he was assaulted from the back as he got out of the car. That certainly doesn't sound like he "CHASED HIM WITH A GUN." I can understand how after reading the OP it makes your blood boil, and that's the obvious intention, but please try to read the actual facts and calm down and realize that what you read about it is not what actually happened.
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On March 23 2012 09:08 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 09:04 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 23 2012 09:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 23 2012 08:57 Ballistixz wrote:
i dont get it, why is it legal at all to FOLLOW someone in the dead of night? isnt that, stalking.....? what the fuck would you do if you had someone you dont know following you around at night? who is to say martin wasnt trying to defend himself? a wierdo he doesnt know in his late 20s was following him around practically stalking him after all.
why is that an "ok" thing to let go or ignore? seriously? No, it is not stalking. Why would it be illegal? I certainly would not assault a stranger, pin them to the ground, and beat them in the head while they scream for help because they followed me or asked me what I was doing. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing and I hope I never meet you if you think that is normal behaviour or acceptable in any way. If you lived in that neighborhood you might think differently. Edit: Have you ever been to Miami? If I lived in that neighborhood I would be happy to see people like Zimmerman who were looking out for my safety, and would have no issue engaging him in conversation if he asked me what I was doing.
Uh, what would've caused you to assume that he was looking out for anyone's safety in this scenario? All you know is that some big, not necessarily friendly looking guy is watching you intently and then starts following you for no particular reason. It's late. Maybe you've had some bad experiences or happen to know it's a crime-ridden neighborhood. It might even have been apparent that he was armed.
Anyway, it seems almost impossible to figure out exactly what went down based on the witness testimonies at this point. At the very least he should've been arrested, considering he didn't comply with the 911 operator's request and just made a big hole in the chest of an unarmed boy.
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EPT
