Trayvon Martin 17yo Kid Shot to Death - Page 28

On March 23 2012 01:38 BlackJack wrote:
One of Glenn Beck's sites ran a story about Trayvon's suspension (he was suspended from school at the time of the killing). Sites have said that he was suspended for tardiness, but Beck's site shows that it's not school policy to suspend students over tardiness, instead they would get detention. So Beck's site listed all of the possible things you could be suspended over. The list was pretty long and included everything, from arson to homicide.

So now all the leftist websites are saying Beck is "smearing" Trayvon and that Beck is accusing Trayvon of being a dangerous delinquent. /facepalm. It's the media's job to ask questions and get answers, but instead they are choosing to NOT do that and isntead criticize the people that do. Trayvon's suspension is at least slightly relevant here, just as Zimmerman's previous arrest is relevant. His parents refuse to say what he was suspended for and it seems nobody in the media cares to press the issue.

On March 23 2012 02:58 dAPhREAk wrote:
so, i have been searching around looking for the autopsy report (which apparently was done), but cant find anything. anyone have any luck finding it? i am curious to see where the bullet entered the body. it may shed some more light on what happened. shot in the back - kid was fleeing from shooter; shot at a downward angle - kid was below zimmerman; shot at close range (powder burns) - could be part of a struggle; etc.

On March 23 2012 03:27 Lunareste wrote:



That's because it's absolutely not relevant to the investigation. Maybe he got into a fight at school, who knows; but we have an eyewitness that says that he knew he was being followed, was caught up to, and was attacked.

On March 22 2012 20:40 MadNeSs wrote:
I dont get this, how can coming at someone, who is unarmed, and you are armed EVER be considered selfdefense? I dont get it, something is really wrong with America, this would never be seen as selfdefense in any other country, or they would atleast put the guy into costety (yes I spell like shit) while they investigated they crime. I mean he is carrying a gun, and they other guy is unarmed, doesnt even have a knife or anything, how the fuck can this be justified!?

On March 23 2012 03:33 dAPhREAk wrote:

you dont think propensity for violence is relevant in an inquiry whether zimmerman acted in self defense? it may not be ultimately relevant (or admissible) at trial, but i would think that the investigators would want to know this at least during the initial investigation. also, why is it somehow relevant in the court of public opinion that zimmerman has a "criminal record" (i use that term very loosely), but not to know what trayvon's school suspension record is? if he has a history of violence at school, i think that is as relevant as zimmerman's criminal record.

ultimately, a suspension will be of marginal relevance (even if its a school fight it doesn't mean he is an aggressive kid), but its as relevant as zimmerman's criminal record.

before it starts, i think glenn beck is an idiot, so dont say i am supporting him.

On March 23 2012 03:33 dAPhREAk wrote:

you dont think propensity for violence is relevant in an inquiry whether zimmerman acted in self defense? it may not be ultimately relevant (or admissible) at trial, but i would think that the investigators would want to know this at least during the initial investigation. also, why is it somehow relevant in the court of public opinion that zimmerman has a "criminal record" (i use that term very loosely), but not to know what trayvon's school suspension record is? if he has a history of violence at school, i think that is as relevant as zimmerman's criminal record.

ultimately, a suspension will be of marginal relevance (even if its a school fight it doesn't mean he is an aggressive kid), but its as relevant as zimmerman's criminal record.

before it starts, i think glenn beck is an idiot, so dont say i am supporting him.

On March 23 2012 03:51 Fyrewolf wrote:


Tardiness does not show a "propensity for violence".

Zimmerman gave up his claim for defense as soon as he starting chasing Martin, but regardless of that, Self-Defense defense under the SYG laws would require Zimmerman to try to back away from the situation and exhaust his options beforehand, and Martin had no way to pose a significant risk to Zimmerman's life or health that would require the use of deadly force to stop. Simply getting beat up isn't enough of a risk to justify that, and if Martin was trying to wrestle the gun away, it would be Martin trying to defend himself from an unknown gunman, not the other way around.

Zimmerman's record is also clean, dropped charges obviously are dropped and not on record, so that is also an irrelevant issue that can't be used against him in court. If someone were to try to use Martin's problems at school to throw his character into question, well, on the other side of that spectrum he pulled his father from out of a burning building, throwing Martin's character into question is not likely to work as a reasonable defense.

So Martin's school suspension and Zimmerman's non-existant criminal record are equally pertinent to the case. By which I mean not at all, both of them are irrelevant.

On March 23 2012 03:53 BloodNinja wrote:


I had read somewhere that Martin was a good student who earned all A's and B's. I cant remember where I saw it at the moment (I will edit it in if I find it again). But that would seem to contradict the image of a troubled kid with a propensity for violence.

On March 23 2012 02:18 dAPhREAk wrote:

zimmerman isnt white, he is hispanic.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/22/trayvon-martin-parents-speak-at-rally-in-new-york-city/

On March 23 2012 03:59 dAPhREAk wrote:

i agree tardiness does not show propensity for violence. but there is a dispute as to whether he was suspended for tardiness or something else. do you know for a fact that he was suspended for tardiness as opposed to something else? because that was the whole gist of glenn beck's rant.

he did not give up his claim for self defense by chasing the kid. people keep saying that and it is absolutely false. you can be the initial aggressor and still assert self defense. i posted the Florida jury instructions on this earlier in this thread.

i was referring to using their records in the initial investigation, not the actual court trial. when you are determining the veracity of someone's self defense claim you want to look at their history of violence as well as the history of violence of the victim. it will likely not come in at court, but it should be considered during the initial investigation.

On March 22 2012 16:58 RowdierBob wrote:
Authorities are going to have a hard time convicting this guy even if they wanted to. There's only 1 witness left alive who saw what actually happened and he's claiming self defence.

The 911 call and the other witness statement are circumstantial at best and wouldn't be enough to get a conviction.

From what I can see here, this looks like a tough sell to prove murder.

On March 23 2012 04:07 Fyrewolf wrote:


In order to assert Self-Defense, you have to be in actual danger. You can only use deadly force "to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
Simply geting beat up and having a nosebleed is not great bodily harm.
Hence why I said regardless of the issue of him following the kid, he still can't claim self defense.
Initial investigation would check out something like his suspension, but it would likely quickly be recognized as irrelevant.

And I certainly wouldn't trust Glenn Beck to be accurate in his insinuations, as his history of spewing baseless vitriol is well known. I don't believe the crazy man on the corner that claims the aliens are coming to steal our candy either.

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin

Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George Zimmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

1. The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
   
2. The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
   
3. Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
   
4. Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.
   

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

On March 23 2012 04:26 Zaqwe wrote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea to edit the OP to include facts about the case which paint it in a different light.



It's very frightening to see how quickly people will jump on a self-righteous bandwagon of hatred against a guy who seems like an upstanding citizen and good neighbor who ended up in a situation where he had to defend himself with lethal force or be beaten to death or shot with his own pistol.

I wish people would take more time to use logic and view different perspectives before jumping to a conclusion and howling for blood. This case is reminiscent of the Duke Lacrosse rape hoax that so many people eagerly fell for.

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

On March 23 2012 03:43 PrinceXizor wrote:

in most states you have to make an attempt to retreat but be prevented from doing so in order for self defense to be claimed. florida's stand your grand law allows you to skip the attempt at retreat if you feel you are in mortal danger.

On March 23 2012 04:37 Focuspants wrote:
You definitely can be suspended for tardiness. The reason is because your parents have no clue the first 5 times youre late to class, but when youre at home because you got suspended for showing up late all the time, they will certainly know, and they get a chance to discipline you. It worked the same way for uniform infractions when I was in highschool. They cut you a lot of slack, but if you dont change your nehaviour, you get a suspension.

Either way, this is highly irrelevant, and as cliche as it sounds, it seems to be a somewhat racist attempt at making the shooter seem innocent, and the young black kid look like a thug.