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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 22 2012 21:20 Spitfire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 20:54 BlackJack wrote:On March 22 2012 20:40 MadNeSs wrote:
I dont get this, how can coming at someone, who is unarmed, and you are armed EVER be considered selfdefense? I dont get it, something is really wrong with America, this would never be seen as selfdefense in any other country, or they would atleast put the guy into costety (yes I spell like shit) while they investigated they crime. I mean he is carrying a gun, and they other guy is unarmed, doesnt even have a knife or anything, how the fuck can this be justified!? So if somebody attacks you and is beating you senseless you aren't allowed to shoot him because he is doing it with his fists and not with a weapon? Why would someone come with their fists at someone who has a gun? Its not impossible, just extremely unlikely, and any circumstance where someone armed has killed someone unarmed and claimed it was self-defence should be treated as extremely suspicious.
Its called CCW.
And no, your last statement is false.
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On March 22 2012 20:54 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 20:40 MadNeSs wrote:
I dont get this, how can coming at someone, who is unarmed, and you are armed EVER be considered selfdefense? I dont get it, something is really wrong with America, this would never be seen as selfdefense in any other country, or they would atleast put the guy into costety (yes I spell like shit) while they investigated they crime. I mean he is carrying a gun, and they other guy is unarmed, doesnt even have a knife or anything, how the fuck can this be justified!? So if somebody attacks you and is beating you senseless you aren't allowed to shoot him because he is doing it with his fists and not with a weapon?
But why would you even be caring a gun (a gun is ment to kill, not just injure) for defense purpose, out on the streets? I know he was part of some lame city patrol group shit, or whatever it's called. I just kan believe he's free, and not into custody, while the cops are investigating this. I mean he shot an unarmed man, who was alone. And since you people think that being threatened equals shooting someone to death, is perfectly fine, just shows you, that you should REALLY take a second look at your whole gun policy, since stuff like this can happen. And you cant even rob a house without carrying a gun yourself, because you just know that if the owner sees you, he will shoot you, and probably kill you. But that's all fine right since you were threatened, right. I mean your life was completly in dange, right. It was either you or him, right? Isnt that how you look at it?
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How can anyone think this guy may actually be innocent of any crime!?!?
The fact that he was suspicious enough of a person walking in the rain to call the police is very questionable to begin with. He then follows this kid with a loaded gun after the police suggest not to. Why would anyone follow in that situation if they thought the person to be dangerous?
In the tapes it is CLEAR that Zimmerman is not the one yelling for help. This is where it gets interesting; if Zimmerman(250 pounds) and this kid(140 pounds) got into a fist fight and Zimmerman, by some miracle, was actually losing, why would he shoot the kid after pulling the gun? The only reason to shoot would be if the kid was still attacking Zimmerman after the gun had been pulled. This obviously wasn't happening as the kid was yelling for help with true fear in his voice.
I don't really care what racial background each of them was(unfortunately) or is from. The point is, ALL evidence that's availabe strongly points towards power-tripping self appointed "neighborhood watch" with a pistol George Zimmerman murdering this poor kid in the street.
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On March 22 2012 21:36 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 21:26 DoubleReed wrote:On March 22 2012 20:47 ranshaked wrote:
@doubleread
That "coon" deal was a doctored tape being spread by the meds unknowingly. If anyone heard the original tape day of release you'd know this. My local Orlando (next to Sanford) host interviewed the lawyer and they said it wasn't on the original tape either.
Sites like mediatakeout have taken the audio and doctored it to make it seem racist. Why would someone take a situation that clearly smells of racism (regardless if it actually came into play) take the audio from a situation and doctor in "fucking coons" into it, which is both ambiguous and weird. Yea I don't believe that at all. You clearly didn't see the original audio releases on the Orlando sentinel the day of. There are three tapes or more floating around of the same call. Nobody complained about the audio or racism until the third day which was a Monday. The original tape says "those people" not coon
Uhhh no. People were talking about racism immediately. Way before the 911 call was released.
Hell, "those people" sounds more racist. He could have been talking about actual raccoons for all I know. That still makes zero sense.
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On March 22 2012 17:15 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 17:02 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 22 2012 17:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 16:47 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 22 2012 16:45 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 16:34 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 22 2012 16:33 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 16:29 lisward wrote:On March 22 2012 15:59 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 15:42 Wrongspeedy wrote:
[quote]
Well the facts are that Zimmerman tells someone on the phone that he knows the kid is aware of his presence and is running. I'm not making things up. He stalked him, chased him, and detained him. All the while he is threatening. You do not chase someone down and detain them (even without a weapon) without being threatening or having risk of physical harm. Zimmerman was out of his rights before he even fired the weapon. He was also trespassing.
Why do you feel the need to stick up for him so much? Let his attorney do that, if he even has to go to court.... im not defending him. i just dont like it when people make up shit. you obviously dont know the law, and you keep making up facts. we dont know what he did after he hung up the phone other than that he shot the kid. you know nothing else. so dotn make shit up. Yeah the kid threw his Skittles at the man and the man shot him with a gun in self-defense obviously. It's pretty much common sense that the man AT LEAST gets investigated for what he did, if you kill someone, regardless of self-defense, manslaughter, or murder, it's still something serious as fuck and should be investigated, to at least confirm it. It's sad that everyone in this thread is turning this into some sort of racist debate, at least it's good to know where I live things like this rarely happen. he is being investigated. but only after lots of people made a huge deal about it. disturbing and that is based on? news. journalists. reporting. etc. the usual. nothing special/magical can you show me something that says they didnt investigate it? because when you find a body on the ground. you dont just walk away. why? im not talking about a police investigation, im talking about a justice department/FBI investigation. what are you getting at? no beating around the bush pls they are investigating it. there is a grand jury. people are saying they delayed it, but i havent seen anything saying that. its not like grand juries appear out of thin air.
The issue is how the police acted in the case. Zimmerman was not tested for alcohol or drugs, despite slurring and possibly being drunk, and "Reports abound that Martin's parents were not informed of his murder until they contacted police to report him missing, despite having his cellphone is feeding further scepticism about the police's conduct."
And as to it being delayed, "On Monday, following a national outcry over the case, the US justice department announced that it would investigate the case, along with the FBI." While that doesn't definitively say whether or not they would have made that announcement anyway and investigated it then, the timing certainly doesn't speak to that, and the coverage of the story before the outcry would have suggested that it would just be swept under the rug instead, especially with the allegations that the police "corrected" one of the witnesses. There was a huge petition posted by the parents of the deceased for Florida to investigate which reached over 500,000 signatures during the weekend(one of the largest that Change.org has ever had, 10,000 people per hour at some points signing. It has now reached 986,346), because there wasn't going to be an investigation otherwise.
It doesn't matter if a grand jury is now investigating it. That still doesn't address the issue of why basic police procedures weren't done. People may focus on the incident as being tragic, or the laws allowing Zimmerman to claim self-defense in this instance, but that's not the story.
The story is not that someone was murdered, but how suspect the police handling of it was.
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this obviously would have never happened if both of them would have carried automatic rifle as any american is allowed and should do
User was warned for this post
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On March 22 2012 22:24 DOUDOU wrote:
this obviously would have never happened if both of them would have carried automatic rifle as any american is allowed and should do
No, we are not allowed to carry automatic weapons. At least fact check before you bash my country.
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On March 22 2012 20:42 DoubleReed wrote:Are people just asking whether or not he's guilty? Because there's the more serious issue that the police did not even arrest this man. That's what made this so ridiculous. That's what made words like 'racist' get thrown around. I mean if this was a black guy or shot a teenage white guy in the chest someone would probably have been immediately arrested. Show nested quote +There is a fair amount of mystery on both sides here. I think that Zimmerman should be held right now, but I'm not fully convinced that he is guilty of a crime. What was that kid doing going towards him with his hands in his pockets? Then why did he run? It doesnt sound to me like Zimmerman should have shot him, I think he could have overpowered him with his physicality alone but I dont think this was a "murder".
Manslaughter maybe, but I still dont know about this kids intentions. I saw his parents and his lawyer on tv the other day too, not the classiest individuals. That in no way means he should have been shot but he may very well have been associated with the burlaries that Zimmerman was talking about.
This is not racisim either, Zimmerman comes from a multicultural family himself and looks hispanic. Uh no. This actually doesn't have a lot of mystery. Listen to the audio tapes. Zimmerman is following the kid and the kid is noticing a random guy following him. The kid may have tried to confront him, but Zimmerman was not supposed to be stalking a random teenager in the first place. You do hear in the audio that Zimmerman says "fucking coons" right? I suppose he could have been brushing off some raccoons off a dumpster or something. But what exactly about the kid made him look 'suspicious'? It doesn't really sound like Zimmerman had a lot of reason to worry. Hispanics can be racist. That's an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.
When I said the thing about being multicultural, I meant that he supposedly has black family members in addition to being hispanic... I guess I should have known to clarify with all the ignorance abound in this thread. The coon part is doctored too, I have heard the tapes.
Dunno why anymore, but I'm always shocked by how so many people take one side or the other and then become absurdly angry at the opposing side whenever someone posts something contradictory to what they already believe happened.
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I think you just read my post in an angry tone for some reason. I am not "absurdly angry."
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On March 22 2012 22:27 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 22:24 DOUDOU wrote:
this obviously would have never happened if both of them would have carried automatic rifle as any american is allowed and should do No, we are not allowed to carry automatic weapons. At least fact check before you bash my country.
Not sure how serious he is, but you can't dispute that this wouldn't have happened if both of them had been in a tank.
Time for another amendment?
![[image loading]](http://fuchs.phpbb8.de/download/file.php?avatar=54_1268931436.jpg)
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Dear god is a tool of death and destruction constructed by a harmless innocent items. Such original creativity!
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On March 22 2012 22:24 DOUDOU wrote:
this obviously would have never happened if both of them would have carried automatic rifle as any american is allowed and should do
I see logical statements all over this post.
But seriously ignorant and just stupid posts like these do not contribute at all to this discussion. If your going to throw around your childish remarks do so in a blog.
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I think essentially every fact is pointing towards murder. Stand your ground is scary as hell considering the fact that I was just in Florida over spring break.
-he chases Trayvon for a while it sounds like. self defense when you are the aggressor continuing the conflict? trayvon had no way to leave the confrontation.
-250 lbs vs 170 lbs, he's unarmed also
-the history of 46 911 calls in less than a 3 month period and fixation on black males makes me think the killer potentially has a mental illness or is at least seriously racist and mentally unstable
-possible intoxication
This sounds like a slam dunk to me, jury is going to destroy him.
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On March 22 2012 22:27 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 22:24 DOUDOU wrote:
this obviously would have never happened if both of them would have carried automatic rifle as any american is allowed and should do No, we are not allowed to carry automatic weapons. At least fact check before you bash my country.
Well that went way over your head.
On the topic, regardless of wether the kid was 140 lbs or bigger, maybe up to something bad or completely innocent, it shouldn't actually matter. The kid was unarmed while Zimmerman was, Zimmerman got told NOT to follow the "suspect" and did so anyway, it ended up with Zimmerman killing the kid. Why should "stand your ground" apply here? Zimmerman was the initiator, he was the one seeking confrontation after authorities told him not to. If Zimmerman isn't found guilty it pretty much means you can hunt down whoever you want, force him into a corner and kill him if he attempts to defend himself. Legalized murder.
Any law justifying the killing of another human is retarded as hell.
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That's kind of fun. Last time I've heard of the american justice system, it was for DSK, who spent a month in jail for rape accusations. Guess he should have shot the maid and claimed self-defense
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The law is called "stand your ground", it's just an epithet, not describing the law's content. American legislatures do this all the time, have heroic sounding names for laws ("Patriot Act" "Protect America Act" "No Child Left Behind" etc) so that if you argue against them you look like you support the opposite.
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Gated communities draw these kind of psychos to them.
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Yeah, give a frustrated retard a gun and this is what happens. Guns don't kill people, right? I'm sure Zimmerman would have killed the kid with his fat hands as well.
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On March 22 2012 22:46 calgar wrote:
I think essentially every fact is pointing towards murder. Stand your ground is scary as hell considering the fact that I was just in Florida over spring break.
-he chases Trayvon for a while it sounds like. self defense when you are the aggressor continuing the conflict? trayvon had no way to leave the confrontation.
-250 lbs vs 170 lbs, he's unarmed also
-the history of 46 911 calls in less than a 3 month period and fixation on black males makes me think the killer potentially has a mental illness or is at least seriously racist and mentally unstable
-possible intoxication
This sounds like a slam dunk to me, jury is going to destroy him.
Doesnt people read the whole tread before posting?
One of your facts is in fact not a fact(..).
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/trayvon-martins-killer-was-looking-for-trouble-and-found-it/254815/
Update 5:20 p.m. We've just learned from the Sanford Police that there is evidently a typo on the first page of the neighborhood watch calls report they provided. The date range of Zimmerman's calls, they say, evidently is 2001-2012, not 2011-2012, which means his 46 calls came over a 10- to 11-year period -- roughly four calls per year -- and not four calls per month as the initial police statistics revealed. That certainly changes my early analysis on that issue -- but only slightly. The defense would say that 4 calls a year to dispatch is reasonable. Prosecutors would say that 46 calls is still an awful lot and that making all those calls year in and year out might have heightened Zimmerman's frustration/obsession with people he deemed "suspicious."
Too many posters just chose a side and start posting, just basing their arguments on the op. No one here knows what actually happend. What we know is:
- Zimmerman called 911 about a "suspicous" man outside
- He went out with a gun eventhough the 911-operator said he shouldnt
- Martin was unarmed walking away
- Screams are heard
- Martin is shot dead
- The police doesnt take Zimmerman in for questioning ( which in my OPINION is wrong)
So to all posters, read as much as you can from both sides before you post incorrect facts and assumptions.
In my opinion Zimmerman did wrong, Martin shouldnt be dead and the police acted incorrectly. Im not going to jump to the conclusion that this is a vigilante hatecrime before I know what actually happened.
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On March 22 2012 22:56 tekos44 wrote:
That's kind of fun. Last time I've heard of the american justice system, it was for DSK, who spent a month in jail for rape accusations. Guess he should have shot the maid and claimed self-defense
I mean the maid was see quite strong and younger than DSK. It could have been self-defense. Plus the fact that DSK was vulnerable being naked and she was possibly armed with a deadly feather duster.
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EPT
