|
This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 22 2012 18:43 Atoissen wrote:
These things make me so mad, I was about to wright a long wall of text about USA, guns etc. but its been done so many times before.
Why do so many people in USA belive that guns solve crime and give protection, where does this come from?
Without saying if it is right or wrong, it comes from (1) the idea that we can't eliminate guns in the US. Criminals will always have them because we can't effectively patrol and secure our borders. (2) There are a lot of news stories out there about people who used their gun in self-defense and it saved either their life or their property. Further, many people speculate on 'what if' someone had a gun in a tragic situation, like Columbine..
From a factual standpoint, the violent and gun-related crime rates in the US are higher than developed parts of Europe, but not to the degree than you might expect. Notably, the odds of being involved in an intentional homicide are 2-3 per 100,000 for whites but over 20 per 100,000 for blacks. The rate in Norway, for comparison, is around 1 per 100,000.
|
This is far more about the US criminal justice system and race than it is about guns control.
People talking about gun control are just taking stabs in the dark without fully understanding the complexity of the situation.
|
On March 22 2012 18:26 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 18:17 dogabutila wrote:On March 22 2012 18:08 tpmraven wrote:On March 22 2012 17:58 dogabutila wrote:On March 22 2012 17:29 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 22 2012 17:25 hp.Shell wrote:On March 22 2012 13:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 12:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 22 2012 12:55 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 12:53 knOxStarcraft wrote:
[quote]
What about the voice calling for help? It's clearly not Zimmerman's voice, so it has to be the kids. Do you think the kid was calling for help with his hands in his pants holding the Skittles he had? Not a chance. There is an EXTREMELY small chance Zimmerman didn't know the kid was armed before he shot him. well, according to the CNN article, they are doing voice analysis to see who was actually calling for help. its unclear whether it was the kid. plus, zimmerman apparently got bloodied so there was some confrontation, and he may have been calling for help. Seems pretty clear to me, just listen to the two videos. i listened to the videos. i have never heard the kid or zimmerman's voice before (and neither have you i assume), so how are we to determine who was calling for help? zimmerman apparently says it is him, i have no idea. edit: i just listened to the video again. i didnt even hear anyone yell help. the lady just says that someone yelled help. you just hear screaming in the background. You heard Zimmerman in the first 911 call. Compare that to the frantically pleading and screaming voice heard on the second and described by the lady on the call as the victim's. We don't know who was screaming. But I assumed it was Tray at first because he is the one who is dead, and was shot during the screaming. We do know. There was an eyewitness who called 911. It is quite clear that Zimmerman was on his back mounted by Martin and being struck repeatedly in the face. You know, that classic UFC "hey I'm just waiting for the ref to stop me now" thing? Except there is no ref. The scream for help was clearly from Zimmerman, and the position of the people involved were clearly determined by clothing, easily identifiable to the eyewitness. What else is missing... Oh, the fact that Martin was actually the aggressor? Zimmerman was just following Martin and keeping him in sight. Or do you really believe that an overweight random dude can chase down a football player? Zimmerman was trying to keep Martin in sight, Martin ambushed him... Why wasn't Zimmerman arrested? His story and all the physical evidence correspond to the eyewitness account. Wasn't the eyewitness corrected/coached? Yes and no. The eyewitness got the names mixed up. I mentioned before the clothing? The witness described a person in red on the bottom being punched repeatedly by a person in white and pleading for help. Who was wearing the red clothing? Zimmerman. Who was wearing white clothing? Martin. But Zimmerman is racist! Not really. There WERE a rash of burglaries recently there. They WERE committed by black males of that age. His neighbors are African-American and are friends with Zimmerman. They talked to each other semi regularly about security and Zimmerman offers them suggestions and tips and keeps them updated on news. But Zimmerman is really just a vigilante! Not really. He isn't self appointed and shit like everybody is trying to make out. There is a valid regular neighborhood watch. Zimmerman is a watch captain, he was appointed by the others in the neighborhood watch. He isn't randomly doing this by himself, it's a legitimate group. Zimmerman actually prevented crimes and held people for arrest before. where do you get this informations from? It's all out there..... interviews with neighbors and eyewitnesses. Reading those paint a much different picture then you would get from reading news sources. For some reason the news keeps getting basic known facts wrong and sensationalize. Wonder why that might be so. Eh, he asked where you got the information from and you basically answered "not from newspapers." If you want to have any shed of credability you'll post exactly where to find this information otherwise you are just spewing bullshit that go against what is out there in the public realm.
Marh 17 Miami Herald corroborates the recent crime stats, makes the mistaken claim Zimmerman was self appointed. Has information about police volunteer watch program coordinator advising people to call about suspicious activity and continuing to observe. (ie, not letting people go)
Interviews with other neighborhood watch refutes the claim that Zimmerman was self appointed, confirms there is a regular board / org, and that he was appointed to a watch leader position. These guys aren't happy Zimmerman was packing, he wasn't supposed to be. Confirmed his preventing of crimes and holding a guy for arrest.
March 17 Dailymail has a line about an eyewitness identifying a guy in a white top beating on Treyvon from above. Fox interview with an eyewitness has the eyewitness claiming a guy in red on the bottom crying for help, shots, guy in red not crying anymore and other person dead. -.- It's not Treyvon Martin in red. It's not Zimmerman in white.
March 16 Orlando Sentinel via Sanford Police confirms multiple witnesses confirming Martin is the aggressor, witnesses split on who is crying for help. Police played recording, father of Martin says it isn't his sons voice.
So, whatever parts that can be corroborated of Zimmerman's story by eyewitnesses ARE in fact in agreement with his story. Physical evidence corroborates Zimmerman's story. Think about this for a second. If Zimmerman is in fact lying about what happened, how does he get everything to line up in agreement? Martins girlfriend loses connection I think 4 minutes before police show up? So you have a 4 minute window in which they get into a fight, Zimmerman shoots Martin, and then real quick makes up a story and attempts to fabricate physical evidence and convince eyewitnesses to go along with his story?
Theres not enough time for him to go beat himself up, rub his hoodie in the grass, and run over to all the neighbors and tell them to tell the same story. So if he was going to lie, he would have to spin it inside the framework of what is already known. Except he doesn't actually know what everybody else knows / saw. He doesn't know what people are saying at that exact moment to 911.
There's just no time to make up a story and have it stick. Go 0-60, get into a fight, shoot somebody and then be able to tell a story convincing enough to fit within the framework of all the evidence and make sense in the framework of his own 911 call as well as the others? Yea right.
I think it's a lot more likely that after you get into a fight and are getting your head beat in that you believe this guy might actually kill you. He shouldn't have had a gun anyways, but it never came out of the holster until now. If he really just wanted to shoot this kid in cold blood why would he let himself get beat up first? If you think you are justified by the circumstances, it's far easier to tell the truth. You think the facts will bear you out right? Remember also, that all these statements are made onscene, no lawyer. No coaching, no sit down and here's what we will say and what we will not say. Just Zimmerman either lying his ass off, trying to spin things on the fly while high with excitement that he just got to kill somebody..... none of which has been contradicted by any evidence physical, or witnessed OR Zimmerman there after shooting somebody, in partial shock and maybe a little bit dazed going over the events as truthfully as possible?
|
On March 22 2012 09:09 albis wrote:
the fact everyone assumes hes guilty is pretty sad. when will the white guilt be over. none of us were there.
He's a fucking racist busybody, how is he not guilty... After all he is "life-less" enough to be a fuckwad that drives around the neighborhood believing himself to be the law... That's being a fucking tool in the first place.
This kid would still be alive if it weren't for him being an asshole with no life.
|
A big fat guy with a gun murders a teenager packing some skittles and somehow you think he isn't guilty???
|
On March 22 2012 19:58 Kickboxer wrote:
A big fat guy with a gun murders a teenager packing some skittles and somehow you think he isn't guilty???
That's not the full story though, unfortunately thats all the ingnorant public reads or wants to get out of it though....
There is a fair amount of mystery on both sides here. I think that Zimmerman should be held right now, but I'm not fully convinced that he is guilty of a crime. What was that kid doing going towards him with his hands in his pockets? Then why did he run? It doesnt sound to me like Zimmerman should have shot him, I think he could have overpowered him with his physicality alone but I dont think this was a "murder".
Manslaughter maybe, but I still dont know about this kids intentions. I saw his parents and his lawyer on tv the other day too, not the classiest individuals. That in no way means he should have been shot but he may very well have been associated with the burlaries that Zimmerman was talking about.
This is not racisim either, Zimmerman comes from a multicultural family himself and looks hispanic.
|
On March 22 2012 19:21 dogabutila wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 18:26 nam nam wrote:On March 22 2012 18:17 dogabutila wrote:On March 22 2012 18:08 tpmraven wrote:On March 22 2012 17:58 dogabutila wrote:On March 22 2012 17:29 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 22 2012 17:25 hp.Shell wrote:On March 22 2012 13:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 12:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 22 2012 12:55 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
well, according to the CNN article, they are doing voice analysis to see who was actually calling for help. its unclear whether it was the kid. plus, zimmerman apparently got bloodied so there was some confrontation, and he may have been calling for help. Seems pretty clear to me, just listen to the two videos. i listened to the videos. i have never heard the kid or zimmerman's voice before (and neither have you i assume), so how are we to determine who was calling for help? zimmerman apparently says it is him, i have no idea. edit: i just listened to the video again. i didnt even hear anyone yell help. the lady just says that someone yelled help. you just hear screaming in the background. You heard Zimmerman in the first 911 call. Compare that to the frantically pleading and screaming voice heard on the second and described by the lady on the call as the victim's. We don't know who was screaming. But I assumed it was Tray at first because he is the one who is dead, and was shot during the screaming. We do know. There was an eyewitness who called 911. It is quite clear that Zimmerman was on his back mounted by Martin and being struck repeatedly in the face. You know, that classic UFC "hey I'm just waiting for the ref to stop me now" thing? Except there is no ref. The scream for help was clearly from Zimmerman, and the position of the people involved were clearly determined by clothing, easily identifiable to the eyewitness. What else is missing... Oh, the fact that Martin was actually the aggressor? Zimmerman was just following Martin and keeping him in sight. Or do you really believe that an overweight random dude can chase down a football player? Zimmerman was trying to keep Martin in sight, Martin ambushed him... Why wasn't Zimmerman arrested? His story and all the physical evidence correspond to the eyewitness account. Wasn't the eyewitness corrected/coached? Yes and no. The eyewitness got the names mixed up. I mentioned before the clothing? The witness described a person in red on the bottom being punched repeatedly by a person in white and pleading for help. Who was wearing the red clothing? Zimmerman. Who was wearing white clothing? Martin. But Zimmerman is racist! Not really. There WERE a rash of burglaries recently there. They WERE committed by black males of that age. His neighbors are African-American and are friends with Zimmerman. They talked to each other semi regularly about security and Zimmerman offers them suggestions and tips and keeps them updated on news. But Zimmerman is really just a vigilante! Not really. He isn't self appointed and shit like everybody is trying to make out. There is a valid regular neighborhood watch. Zimmerman is a watch captain, he was appointed by the others in the neighborhood watch. He isn't randomly doing this by himself, it's a legitimate group. Zimmerman actually prevented crimes and held people for arrest before. where do you get this informations from? It's all out there..... interviews with neighbors and eyewitnesses. Reading those paint a much different picture then you would get from reading news sources. For some reason the news keeps getting basic known facts wrong and sensationalize. Wonder why that might be so. Eh, he asked where you got the information from and you basically answered "not from newspapers." If you want to have any shed of credability you'll post exactly where to find this information otherwise you are just spewing bullshit that go against what is out there in the public realm. Marh 17 Miami Herald corroborates the recent crime stats, makes the mistaken claim Zimmerman was self appointed. Has information about police volunteer watch program coordinator advising people to call about suspicious activity and continuing to observe. (ie, not letting people go) Interviews with other neighborhood watch refutes the claim that Zimmerman was self appointed, confirms there is a regular board / org, and that he was appointed to a watch leader position. These guys aren't happy Zimmerman was packing, he wasn't supposed to be. Confirmed his preventing of crimes and holding a guy for arrest. March 17 Dailymail has a line about an eyewitness identifying a guy in a white top beating on Treyvon from above. Fox interview with an eyewitness has the eyewitness claiming a guy in red on the bottom crying for help, shots, guy in red not crying anymore and other person dead. -.- It's not Treyvon Martin in red. It's not Zimmerman in white. March 16 Orlando Sentinel via Sanford Police confirms multiple witnesses confirming Martin is the aggressor, witnesses split on who is crying for help. Police played recording, father of Martin says it isn't his sons voice. So, whatever parts that can be corroborated of Zimmerman's story by eyewitnesses ARE in fact in agreement with his story. Physical evidence corroborates Zimmerman's story. Think about this for a second. If Zimmerman is in fact lying about what happened, how does he get everything to line up in agreement? Martins girlfriend loses connection I think 4 minutes before police show up? So you have a 4 minute window in which they get into a fight, Zimmerman shoots Martin, and then real quick makes up a story and attempts to fabricate physical evidence and convince eyewitnesses to go along with his story? Theres not enough time for him to go beat himself up, rub his hoodie in the grass, and run over to all the neighbors and tell them to tell the same story. So if he was going to lie, he would have to spin it inside the framework of what is already known. Except he doesn't actually know what everybody else knows / saw. He doesn't know what people are saying at that exact moment to 911. There's just no time to make up a story and have it stick. Go 0-60, get into a fight, shoot somebody and then be able to tell a story convincing enough to fit within the framework of all the evidence and make sense in the framework of his own 911 call as well as the others? Yea right. I think it's a lot more likely that after you get into a fight and are getting your head beat in that you believe this guy might actually kill you. He shouldn't have had a gun anyways, but it never came out of the holster until now. If he really just wanted to shoot this kid in cold blood why would he let himself get beat up first? If you think you are justified by the circumstances, it's far easier to tell the truth. You think the facts will bear you out right? Remember also, that all these statements are made onscene, no lawyer. No coaching, no sit down and here's what we will say and what we will not say. Just Zimmerman either lying his ass off, trying to spin things on the fly while high with excitement that he just got to kill somebody..... none of which has been contradicted by any evidence physical, or witnessed OR Zimmerman there after shooting somebody, in partial shock and maybe a little bit dazed going over the events as truthfully as possible?
Thank you for writing this. Basically, there are two points of view floating around. This one and the "racist murderer"
People also tend to get this 140lb part wrong. From what I hear, he was 6'2 and a football player. They use old photos to manipulate the media. We will just have to wait until the case goes to trial (if there is one)
|
On March 22 2012 20:22 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 19:58 Kickboxer wrote:
A big fat guy with a gun murders a teenager packing some skittles and somehow you think he isn't guilty??? That's not the full story though, unfortunately thats all the ingnorant public reads or wants to get out of it though.... There is a fair amount of mystery on both sides here. I think that Zimmerman should be held right now, but I'm not fully convinced that he is guilty of a crime. What was that kid doing going towards him with his hands in his pockets? Then why did he run? It doesnt sound to me like Zimmerman should have shot him, I think he could have overpowered him with his physicality alone but I dont think this was a "murder". Manslaughter maybe, but I still dont know about this kids intentions. I saw his parents and his lawyer on tv the other day too, not the classiest individuals. That in no way means he should have been shot but he may very well have been associated with the burlaries that Zimmerman was talking about. This is not racisim either, Zimmerman comes from a multicultural family himself and looks hispanic.
The kid having his hands in his pockets isn't really a justification for shooting him. Neither is him coming from a low class family.
A hispanic person can be just as racist as a white person. Not saying racism was the cause here but not just white people are racists.
|
I dont get this, how can coming at someone, who is unarmed, and you are armed EVER be considered selfdefense? I dont get it, something is really wrong with America, this would never be seen as selfdefense in any other country, or they would atleast put the guy into costety (yes I spell like shit) while they investigated they crime. I mean he is carrying a gun, and they other guy is unarmed, doesnt even have a knife or anything, how the fuck can this be justified!?
|
Are people just asking whether or not he's guilty? Because there's the more serious issue that the police did not even arrest this man. That's what made this so ridiculous. That's what made words like 'racist' get thrown around.
I mean if this was a black guy or shot a teenage white guy in the chest someone would probably have been immediately arrested.
There is a fair amount of mystery on both sides here. I think that Zimmerman should be held right now, but I'm not fully convinced that he is guilty of a crime. What was that kid doing going towards him with his hands in his pockets? Then why did he run? It doesnt sound to me like Zimmerman should have shot him, I think he could have overpowered him with his physicality alone but I dont think this was a "murder".
Manslaughter maybe, but I still dont know about this kids intentions. I saw his parents and his lawyer on tv the other day too, not the classiest individuals. That in no way means he should have been shot but he may very well have been associated with the burlaries that Zimmerman was talking about.
This is not racisim either, Zimmerman comes from a multicultural family himself and looks hispanic.
Uh no. This actually doesn't have a lot of mystery. Listen to the audio tapes. Zimmerman is following the kid and the kid is noticing a random guy following him. The kid may have tried to confront him, but Zimmerman was not supposed to be stalking a random teenager in the first place.
You do hear in the audio that Zimmerman says "fucking coons" right? I suppose he could have been brushing off some raccoons off a dumpster or something. But what exactly about the kid made him look 'suspicious'? It doesn't really sound like Zimmerman had a lot of reason to worry.
Hispanics can be racist. That's an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.
|
@doubleread
That "coon" deal was a doctored tape being spread by the meds unknowingly. If anyone heard the original tape day of release you'd know this. My local Orlando (next to Sanford) host interviewed the lawyer and they said it wasn't on the original tape either.
Sites like mediatakeout have taken the audio and doctored it to make it seem racist.
|
"• Why did police tell Martin's father that they hadn't pressed charges because Zimmerman was a criminal justice student with a "squeaky clean" record? It wasn't strictly true. In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested for resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer, although those charges were dropped."
If the charges were dropped then his record is squeaky clean. You can't say that someone's guilty of something they haven't been convicted of; one can be arrested for anything. Let's assert that all murder suspects are murderers while we're at it.
|
On March 22 2012 20:40 MadNeSs wrote:
I dont get this, how can coming at someone, who is unarmed, and you are armed EVER be considered selfdefense? I dont get it, something is really wrong with America, this would never be seen as selfdefense in any other country, or they would atleast put the guy into costety (yes I spell like shit) while they investigated they crime. I mean he is carrying a gun, and they other guy is unarmed, doesnt even have a knife or anything, how the fuck can this be justified!?
So if somebody attacks you and is beating you senseless you aren't allowed to shoot him because he is doing it with his fists and not with a weapon?
|
On March 22 2012 20:22 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 19:58 Kickboxer wrote:
A big fat guy with a gun murders a teenager packing some skittles and somehow you think he isn't guilty??? This is not racisim either, Zimmerman comes from a multicultural family himself and looks hispanic.
Because a hispanic person can't be racist to a black person?
|
On March 22 2012 19:21 dogabutila wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 18:26 nam nam wrote:On March 22 2012 18:17 dogabutila wrote:On March 22 2012 18:08 tpmraven wrote:On March 22 2012 17:58 dogabutila wrote:On March 22 2012 17:29 Wrongspeedy wrote:On March 22 2012 17:25 hp.Shell wrote:On March 22 2012 13:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 12:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 22 2012 12:55 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
well, according to the CNN article, they are doing voice analysis to see who was actually calling for help. its unclear whether it was the kid. plus, zimmerman apparently got bloodied so there was some confrontation, and he may have been calling for help. Seems pretty clear to me, just listen to the two videos. i listened to the videos. i have never heard the kid or zimmerman's voice before (and neither have you i assume), so how are we to determine who was calling for help? zimmerman apparently says it is him, i have no idea. edit: i just listened to the video again. i didnt even hear anyone yell help. the lady just says that someone yelled help. you just hear screaming in the background. You heard Zimmerman in the first 911 call. Compare that to the frantically pleading and screaming voice heard on the second and described by the lady on the call as the victim's. We don't know who was screaming. But I assumed it was Tray at first because he is the one who is dead, and was shot during the screaming. We do know. There was an eyewitness who called 911. It is quite clear that Zimmerman was on his back mounted by Martin and being struck repeatedly in the face. You know, that classic UFC "hey I'm just waiting for the ref to stop me now" thing? Except there is no ref. The scream for help was clearly from Zimmerman, and the position of the people involved were clearly determined by clothing, easily identifiable to the eyewitness. What else is missing... Oh, the fact that Martin was actually the aggressor? Zimmerman was just following Martin and keeping him in sight. Or do you really believe that an overweight random dude can chase down a football player? Zimmerman was trying to keep Martin in sight, Martin ambushed him... Why wasn't Zimmerman arrested? His story and all the physical evidence correspond to the eyewitness account. Wasn't the eyewitness corrected/coached? Yes and no. The eyewitness got the names mixed up. I mentioned before the clothing? The witness described a person in red on the bottom being punched repeatedly by a person in white and pleading for help. Who was wearing the red clothing? Zimmerman. Who was wearing white clothing? Martin. But Zimmerman is racist! Not really. There WERE a rash of burglaries recently there. They WERE committed by black males of that age. His neighbors are African-American and are friends with Zimmerman. They talked to each other semi regularly about security and Zimmerman offers them suggestions and tips and keeps them updated on news. But Zimmerman is really just a vigilante! Not really. He isn't self appointed and shit like everybody is trying to make out. There is a valid regular neighborhood watch. Zimmerman is a watch captain, he was appointed by the others in the neighborhood watch. He isn't randomly doing this by himself, it's a legitimate group. Zimmerman actually prevented crimes and held people for arrest before. where do you get this informations from? It's all out there..... interviews with neighbors and eyewitnesses. Reading those paint a much different picture then you would get from reading news sources. For some reason the news keeps getting basic known facts wrong and sensationalize. Wonder why that might be so. Eh, he asked where you got the information from and you basically answered "not from newspapers." If you want to have any shed of credability you'll post exactly where to find this information otherwise you are just spewing bullshit that go against what is out there in the public realm. Marh 17 Miami Herald corroborates the recent crime stats, makes the mistaken claim Zimmerman was self appointed. Has information about police volunteer watch program coordinator advising people to call about suspicious activity and continuing to observe. (ie, not letting people go) Interviews with other neighborhood watch refutes the claim that Zimmerman was self appointed, confirms there is a regular board / org, and that he was appointed to a watch leader position. These guys aren't happy Zimmerman was packing, he wasn't supposed to be. Confirmed his preventing of crimes and holding a guy for arrest. March 17 Dailymail has a line about an eyewitness identifying a guy in a white top beating on Treyvon from above. Fox interview with an eyewitness has the eyewitness claiming a guy in red on the bottom crying for help, shots, guy in red not crying anymore and other person dead. -.- It's not Treyvon Martin in red. It's not Zimmerman in white. March 16 Orlando Sentinel via Sanford Police confirms multiple witnesses confirming Martin is the aggressor, witnesses split on who is crying for help. Police played recording, father of Martin says it isn't his sons voice. So, whatever parts that can be corroborated of Zimmerman's story by eyewitnesses ARE in fact in agreement with his story. Physical evidence corroborates Zimmerman's story. Think about this for a second. If Zimmerman is in fact lying about what happened, how does he get everything to line up in agreement? Martins girlfriend loses connection I think 4 minutes before police show up? So you have a 4 minute window in which they get into a fight, Zimmerman shoots Martin, and then real quick makes up a story and attempts to fabricate physical evidence and convince eyewitnesses to go along with his story? Theres not enough time for him to go beat himself up, rub his hoodie in the grass, and run over to all the neighbors and tell them to tell the same story. So if he was going to lie, he would have to spin it inside the framework of what is already known. Except he doesn't actually know what everybody else knows / saw. He doesn't know what people are saying at that exact moment to 911. There's just no time to make up a story and have it stick. Go 0-60, get into a fight, shoot somebody and then be able to tell a story convincing enough to fit within the framework of all the evidence and make sense in the framework of his own 911 call as well as the others? Yea right. I think it's a lot more likely that after you get into a fight and are getting your head beat in that you believe this guy might actually kill you. He shouldn't have had a gun anyways, but it never came out of the holster until now. If he really just wanted to shoot this kid in cold blood why would he let himself get beat up first? If you think you are justified by the circumstances, it's far easier to tell the truth. You think the facts will bear you out right? Remember also, that all these statements are made onscene, no lawyer. No coaching, no sit down and here's what we will say and what we will not say. Just Zimmerman either lying his ass off, trying to spin things on the fly while high with excitement that he just got to kill somebody..... none of which has been contradicted by any evidence physical, or witnessed OR Zimmerman there after shooting somebody, in partial shock and maybe a little bit dazed going over the events as truthfully as possible?
Honestly I think most of your posts should be added to the OP. There are so many people that aren't putting in the time or effort to research this fully and you seem to be doing that. This is really a damn shame for all those involved and irregardless of whoever was at fault, I wish the kid still had his life.
|
Anders Breivik should have done his thing in Florida. He was totally defending himself against those kids and in Murrica, he wouldn't even have been arrested. Congratulations on shitty laws.
|
On March 22 2012 20:54 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 20:40 MadNeSs wrote:
I dont get this, how can coming at someone, who is unarmed, and you are armed EVER be considered selfdefense? I dont get it, something is really wrong with America, this would never be seen as selfdefense in any other country, or they would atleast put the guy into costety (yes I spell like shit) while they investigated they crime. I mean he is carrying a gun, and they other guy is unarmed, doesnt even have a knife or anything, how the fuck can this be justified!? So if somebody attacks you and is beating you senseless you aren't allowed to shoot him because he is doing it with his fists and not with a weapon?
Why would someone come with their fists at someone who has a gun?
Its not impossible, just extremely unlikely, and any circumstance where someone armed has killed someone unarmed and claimed it was self-defence should be treated as extremely suspicious.
|
Moreover, how did the kid manage to beat him down when he must have been on his guard and had bigger physique.
|
On March 22 2012 20:47 ranshaked wrote:
@doubleread
That "coon" deal was a doctored tape being spread by the meds unknowingly. If anyone heard the original tape day of release you'd know this. My local Orlando (next to Sanford) host interviewed the lawyer and they said it wasn't on the original tape either.
Sites like mediatakeout have taken the audio and doctored it to make it seem racist.
Why would someone take a situation that clearly smells of racism (regardless if it actually came into play) take the audio from a situation and doctor in "fucking coons" into it, which is both ambiguous and weird. Yea I don't believe that at all.
|
On March 22 2012 21:26 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 20:47 ranshaked wrote:
@doubleread
That "coon" deal was a doctored tape being spread by the meds unknowingly. If anyone heard the original tape day of release you'd know this. My local Orlando (next to Sanford) host interviewed the lawyer and they said it wasn't on the original tape either.
Sites like mediatakeout have taken the audio and doctored it to make it seem racist. Why would someone take a situation that clearly smells of racism (regardless if it actually came into play) take the audio from a situation and doctor in "fucking coons" into it, which is both ambiguous and weird. Yea I don't believe that at all.
You clearly didn't see the original audio releases on the Orlando sentinel the day of. There are three tapes or more floating around of the same call. Nobody complained about the audio or racism until the third day which was a Monday. The original tape says "those people" not coon
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
