EPTWhy do people hate Random players ? - Page 27
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Whitley
United States238 Posts
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SupItsG
United States59 Posts
On February 24 2012 04:06 Timerly wrote: You know, your general choice involves playing random yourself. Suddenly they don't have an advantage, eh? Of course, you'll have to learn the other two races. So yeah, it's just a trade off. One guy learns 9 matchups, one guy has to live with a less than optimal BO. If you don't like disadvantages vs random, play random. If you feel that wouldn't benefit you, don't. Just don't cry about it (btw, Tal Darim = generally ridiculous map in any PvX matchup). What's funny is I used to play random until I decided to stick to toss. Your argument is that since I've chosen a race and you haven't and yours gives you an unfair starting advantage that I should give up the race that I enjoy playing most so I can play your race? I don't want to play random, I want to play protoss and I shouldn't be punished for doing so. By your logic every player should just play random. Random vs Random is even worse. The problem could easily be eliminated by showing the race after the random player spawns. Everyone would be happy. | ||
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Giku
Netherlands368 Posts
Zerg is platinum-ish level, and Protoss is like high-goldish. My Terran however just blows ass and is more like bronze-silver level. The fact I have to play a different MU probably EVERY TIME I play, justifies the extra scouting needed, imho. | ||
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Bean5487
United States22 Posts
1) You don't know their race at the start of the game, most people execute varying early builds based on their opponents race. Because the opponent is random, they are forced to do a very early scout or potentially screw up their build. This is very frustrating to people, and also one of random's greatest advantages. 2) Because random players tend to cheese. Like...90% of them cheese, and by cheese I mean do some one base all in build. And this is understandable because its very difficult to master the macro and intricacies of all 3 races, and their respective match ups. Thats 9 matchups. And ZvT is separate from TvZ etc because when youre actually playing the opposite race, despite knowing the other race's builds its still hard to execute your race's builds if youre not familiar with that race. So thats alot of things to know and practice, so people just do 1 base builds. Knowing all 3 races all-in builds vs the various races is probably the equivalent to knowing the standard builds of 1 race. So its simply not surprising that almost all random players all-in. | ||
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bouhko
193 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:13 BeeNu wrote: Also if you want a quote I'll throw this out here: You realize you're quoting IdrA on a game balance issue ? :-) | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
Also because people that are random are often much better on ladder than in any form of boX. Winning 1 game on ladder as random is easy, your oponent knows nothing about you, winning a boX even bo3 relies less on luck and more on fundamentals like macro and knowing solid builds. | ||
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BeeNu
615 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:25 bouhko wrote: You realize you're quoting IdrA on a game balance issue ? :-) And you realize that your bias is blinding you from a perfectly reasonable and logical argument? Just becaus Idra is a whiny crybaby doesn't mean he doesn't have legitimate points regarding balance. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:22 Kira__ wrote: The people I play who cry about me being random, are the same people who later cry imbalance with whatever race im beating them with in a macro game Haha so true. Whenever I win R(P)vZ I always get complaints about Force Fields, even if I point out to them that I picked Random and got Protoss. I still play an imbalanced ezmode race. Contrary to what most ladder warriors believe, 99.9% of people will never compete on the professional level. I can understand why someone like IdrA wouldn't want to practice against Random, because he will almost never face one in a competitive setting (although he likes to complain about an awful lot). But for diamond/masters and below, I think it's hilarious when their diligent practice is so rudely interrupted by a player picking Random. If they always cheese, but it's so easy to beat them in a macro game, what exactly is the problem? You get to practice your cheese defense and/or collect free ladder points and move on. | ||
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amatoer
Germany212 Posts
And the last good random player (excluding TLO in his earlier days) is Testie. The canadian Brood War player who played for ToT) was one of the top foreigners some years ago (I think it was in '05 or '06?). O I loved Testie...  | ||
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arterian
Canada1157 Posts
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Nifel
706 Posts
And in other news: I'm pretty bad at the game (I'm hanging somewhere in low/mid-master league I guess), and I guess my randoming doesn't exactly help in that regard. Especially since I have very limited time to play. I guess it'd make more sense to spend what little time I have making the most out of one race but..naah. Oh, and I avoid cheesing. :o Go figure. | ||
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HoLeeSheet
United States4 Posts
(>.<) | ||
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boxman22
Canada430 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:28 ZasZ. wrote: But for diamond/masters and below, I think it's hilarious when their diligent practice is so rudely interrupted by a player picking Random. My favorite quote thus far. And for all the people complaining about having to play a different opening, why not just consider random another race? Oh nooooo, you need to learn one more BO, poor you. | ||
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BeeNu
615 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:31 Nifel wrote: I play random. Reason? I want to experience every point of view in every situation and enjoy the diversity. But yeah, I get a bit of hate occasionally, especially when I beat someone with their own main race. I also chime in with what korona said earlier, I get blindly cheesed quite often. And in other news: I'm pretty bad at the game (I'm hanging somewhere in low/mid-master league I guess), and I guess my randoming doesn't exactly help in that regard. Especially since I have very limited time to play. I guess it'd make more sense to spend what little time I have making the most out of one race but..naah. Oh, and I avoid cheesing. :o Go figure. I see why you play Random and it's great that you don't cheese....but... don't kid yourself. You claim you want to experience every point of view but you aren't actually getting that by playing random, what you are doing is getting a filtered version of what most other players get. If you *really* want to get perspective on all 3 races then just pick a race at random but don't pick Random or else you are forcing your opponent to have to play some sort of stupid universally safe way which you will rarely see in a non-Random matchup. I used to play Random too and trust me, it's a much different experience than just randomly picking races. | ||
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EllipZ
France378 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:27 BeeNu wrote: And you realize that your bias is blinding you from a perfectly reasonable and logical argument? Just becaus Idra is a whiny crybaby doesn't mean he doesn't have legitimate points regarding balance. In that case its another whine from Idra,if random give you an advantage we should see more randoms on GSL | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:35 EllipZ wrote: In that case its another whine from Idra,if random give you an advantage we should see more randoms on GSL we would see more randoms everywhere, but we dont, because the so-called advantage is de minimis. | ||
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coriamon
244 Posts
Now, I'm going to lay some cool stuff on the people that say PvR(Z), and PvR(P), and TvR is unfair on larger maps (for some reason, I don't see a lot of zerg players complain about this). Random is a race choice. And if you are one of those players that likes build orders and whatnot, you understand that you need a build for each race. Let's be a little bit more specific now. To those who say "If I don't place my pylon by the front to FFE and the opponent is zerg, I'm behind": you are wrong. Safer builds such as the 3 gate expand are standard vs Random because of their unpredictability. The advantage of such builds is that you can attack earlier on. Remember that it used to be standard to use these builds, and they are (by no means) not bad builds at all. To those who say "I need to only be building stalkers in PvP, but if they end up being terran, I'm not going to be able to hold earlier on": you are wrong. If you are losing because of things like this, you are simply no experienced enough handling your units vs other units. To those who say "What if he 6 pools, and I can't tell that he is zerg": There isn't much you can do about that. Place your buildings at standard times, and hold it off as you would against any player. But don't QQ because "Random is OP." We are a legitimate race, that deserves to be treated like a legitimate race. I cannot cheese even if I try as hard as I can. As a random player, I never learned the micro that you need to cheese well. If I win (playing macro) I cannot stand it when people say the win was illegitimate. I play the game to their standards, yet never get the respect that anyone deserves when they win a game. A cool little thing you can do to those people is ask them to play you after with you playing the same race. Then play them at "their" level. Please excuse my grammar and paragraphing. It sucks. | ||
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BeeNu
615 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:35 EllipZ wrote: In that case its another whine from Idra,if random give you an advantage we should see more randoms on GSL That's not true either, you are drawing biased conclusions with no evidence or context. The reason you will almost never see Random in GSL is because at the very highest levels of play these people are grinding massive amounts of time into trying to be better than everybody else and splitting your focus into 9 matchups. See, on Ladder splitting attention into 9 matchups doesn't matter because it's just a BO1 scenario and everyone you play will have roughly the same level of skill you have whereas in GSL people aren't matched up by their Win/Loss ratio. | ||
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
The argument that you play random to learn all the races/matchups is invalid. Even if your opponent would like to, he is most of the time not able to play the proper opening since he doesnt know your race. So you will pretty much always face either a "compromise build" or a "guess build" that in 2 of 3 times was not designed for the race you rolled. If I'd honestly wanted to learn the matchups, I'd randomly pick a race and then hit the ladder, to make sure I get legit early games to practice. To me the definition of cheese is if your opening relies on your opponent not knowing what you're doing and you hope to surprise him to win or get ahead. So if you select random and press "find match" you're already cheesing imo, no matter if you play a 6pool or CC first afterwards. Telling the race doesnt help either, because it could always be misinformation (and it is oftentimes). Not that cheesing would be a bad thing, its a perfectly viable thing to do. It is just a bit of a waste of time to do it consistently in a BO1 ladder imo. | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? | ||
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