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On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
i could care less if my opponent knows, but i dont have a choice because blizzard hasnt implemented the option of showing (and apparently no one believes a random player when they tell their race), riiiiiiiiight?
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Blizzard should just have the random players race announced at the start of the game.
Saves everyone headaches.
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On February 24 2012 05:44 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? i could care less if my opponent knows, but i dont have a choice because blizzard hasnt implemented the option of showing (and apparently no one believes a random player when they tell their race), riiiiiiiiight?
It doenst need to be in the loading screen, it could be in that little box on top right.
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On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
This really draws on the heart of the issue.
Everybody with a semi-intelligent mind knows that Random gives an imbalance, fine so be it unless Blizzard changes it not much to be done about it and obviously everybody has the right to play Random if they want to, again, not much I can do about it it's not my call to make so whatever. I don't really get mad about people playing Random, if I meet them on ladder I'll just leave at the start because I see it as a complete waste of time, whatever that's fine.
But what does annoy me is people trying to justify playing Random with half-assed illogical arguments that make no sense and then they go on to make threads like this to try and garner sympathy for when people do rage at them. No, if you play Random expect people to hate on you and own up to the fact that you are taking advantage of an imalance, don't spew bullshit at me and try to convince me that playing Random is totally fair because it's not, just be honest about it and we can get along just fine.
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ZvR and PvR offer the random player some pretty strong early game advantages based on the map, but I think the main reason people don't like playing vs. Randoms is because so few opponents are Random. As a result it puts you in an uncomfortable position, and one where some players feel losses are attributed to lack of experience in a situation that they won't see many times in the future anyways, and as a result don't care to prepare for.
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On February 24 2012 05:47 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? This really draws on the heart of the issue. Everybody with a semi-intelligent mind knows that Random gives an imbalance, fine so be it unless Blizzard changes it not much to be done about it and obviously everybody has the right to play Random if they want to, again, not much I can do about it it's not my call to make so whatever. I don't really get mad about people playing Random, if I meet them on ladder I'll just leave at the start because I see it as a complete waste of time, whatever that's fine. But what does annoy me is people trying to justify playing Random with half-assed illogical arguments that make no sense and then they go on to make threads like this to try and garner sympathy for when people do rage at them. No, if you play Random expect people to hate on you and own up to the fact that you are taking advantage of an imalance, don't spew bullshit at me and try to convince me that playing Random is totally fair becasue it's not, just be honest about it and we can get along just fine.
I fucking HATE people named BeeNu. FUCK! They're so goddamned entitled. And then they post on things thinking people will sympathize with them or some bullshit. Like they want intelligent conversation or something. Or to understand why they are being flamed so much. Assholes - every single one. Then they try to spew garbage like - "everyone is entitled to a name" and "those letter are in the alphabet too" YOU KNOW THOSE LETTERS ARE IMBA!!!!! stoppitstoppitstoppit! Everyone is in denial except for me. But if you want to stay in denial FINE. Just dont tell me how your stupid name isn't imba when it is. Fuckin B's and E's and N's and occasional U's.
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On February 24 2012 05:47 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? This really draws on the heart of the issue. Everybody with a semi-intelligent mind knows that Random gives an imbalance, fine so be it unless Blizzard changes it not much to be done about it and obviously everybody has the right to play Random if they want to, again, not much I can do about it it's not my call to make so whatever. I don't really get mad about people playing Random, if I meet them on ladder I'll just leave at the start because I see it as a complete waste of time, whatever that's fine. But what does annoy me is people trying to justify playing Random with half-assed illogical arguments that make no sense and then they go on to make threads like this to try and garner sympathy for when people do rage at them. No, if you play Random expect people to hate on you and own up to the fact that you are taking advantage of an imalance, don't spew bullshit at me and try to convince me that playing Random is totally fair becasue it's not, just be honest about it and we can get along just fine.
why do people in this thread keep prefacing all their arguments with insults to people who disagree with them? it makes you look foolish, not the other people.
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well if random player gets zerg and you are terran you cant go 11/11 to punish greedy zerg opening , basicly all you can open with is standard rax and gas and random player can exploit it
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If random has such a huge unfair advantage, then why does it have virtually no representation at a masters+ level?
A lot of us just play for fun. We're not evil, manipulative people sitting behind our keyboards twiddling our fingers giggling about how our opponents don't know our race.
Playing one race would bore me, and every time I've tried, I've been like "aw man it would be so fun to do x strategy from this other race", so I just play random for the variety. I'm not training and dreaming of becoming a pro-gamer in Korea. It's a fucking video game to me.
And the whole "all random players cheese" thing is just baseless bullshit imo. I get all-inned by players who choose their race all the time. Probably more often than when I play other random players. In fact, some of my longest games have been RvR.
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I hate most random players, but I don't BM them for it. Some of them only know how to cheese, which is annoying to deal with. Win or lose, it frustrates me to have to deal with it more often than not when playing against random.
But you do on occasion get the random players that tell you their race right off the bat and also play standard macro games. I appreciate that and I'll thank them for it.
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I love reading all the whine in this thread. I am a highish-diamond Random player, and I get BM all the time on the ladder simply because I enjoy going Random. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, and here are a few reasons why:
1) Randoms have to learn 9 matchups. You have to learn 3. Keep in mind that it's not just 9 different over-arching instances of game understanding, but also 3 different sets of hotkeys as well. You're complaining because you have to send an early scout? Please. Try starting every game not having a clue if you're going to 2 rax, fast hatch, or FFE.
2) Everyone on here claims that Randoms only cheese. I hardly ever cheese, because it's simply not as much fun as playing a macro game. Maybe other Randoms do, so I can't speak for them, but I think people who rage against Random players are blowing the problem of cheese way out of proportion. My experience has been that cheesers have their moment of fun, then realize that cheesing or all-inning every single isn't very fun at all and stop playing.
3) Blizzard provided it as a legitimate option. Deal with it. I personally think Medivac drops are cheap and need a nerf because they can instantly win games against Z for missing them. That being said, I don't blame you if you drop me. It's an effective mechanic of which you're simply taking advantage, and the bottom line is that I have to learn to counter it.
4) I play Random because it's more fun for me. I paid $60 for the game, so I want to get my money's worth out of it by enjoying more than just 33% of the game's content. Playing Random has held my interest in the game this long, and will continue to hold it for several more years.
5) I get a kick out of all these people on this thread saying they win the majority of their games against Random players because they take it into the macro game. I have a roughly 50% win rate like anyone else on the ladder, so I imagine most of you have a 50% win rate against Randoms. If you meet a Random on the ladder, you can BM and whine all you want, but the sad truth is that they are capable of playing three races just as well as you can play one.
6) Why are we complaining about cheese anyway? Everyone and their mom could play solely as Protoss and 4-gate their way to the masters league. If you want to complain about cheesy builds, "people playing Random" is the last place you should look.
7) A side note: I find it hilarious when people ask your race at the start of the match, then get upset when you say "Random." I can understand asking in hopes that they tell you, but don't get mad when they don't. Imagine you're playing a TvT and going 1-1-1 and I ask you at the start of the match, "Hey what build are you doing?" Why on EARTH would you tell me and give away information that hurts your chances of winning?
Just think before you BM a Random player next time...it doesn't further your cause. It just makes you look dumb because none of your complaints are logical at all.
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On February 24 2012 05:49 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:47 BeeNu wrote:On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? This really draws on the heart of the issue. Everybody with a semi-intelligent mind knows that Random gives an imbalance, fine so be it unless Blizzard changes it not much to be done about it and obviously everybody has the right to play Random if they want to, again, not much I can do about it it's not my call to make so whatever. I don't really get mad about people playing Random, if I meet them on ladder I'll just leave at the start because I see it as a complete waste of time, whatever that's fine. But what does annoy me is people trying to justify playing Random with half-assed illogical arguments that make no sense and then they go on to make threads like this to try and garner sympathy for when people do rage at them. No, if you play Random expect people to hate on you and own up to the fact that you are taking advantage of an imalance, don't spew bullshit at me and try to convince me that playing Random is totally fair becasue it's not, just be honest about it and we can get along just fine. why do people in this thread keep prefacing all their arguments with insults to people who disagree with them? it makes you look foolish, not the other people.
I didn't insult anybody. I said people make threads like this to garner sympathy because many of them do [that or they are just trolling, which is probably more likely] with borderline pointless threads like "why do ppl get mad when I cheese?" or whatever. Aside from that the closest thing I said that comes close to an insult is my claim that people are "spewing bullshit" which is true if what they are saying doesn't actually make a logical argument, which it doesn't.
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Quite literally every Random player I see on ladder does some form of an all-in, playing off of the fact that as the non-random player, I'm completely in the dark as to what they could be doing until I physically scout them. For example, if I am up against a random Terran who opens CC first, I am forced to go 14/14 (as Zerg), because of the possibility of facing a 10 pooling Zerg. If Terran follows up the immediate expand with mass hellion, not only will my expansion be late, but also my income, production, and creep, which means I then have to pull a miracle defense from a game I started out behind in.
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On February 24 2012 05:54 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 05:47 BeeNu wrote:On February 24 2012 05:43 XiGua wrote:
Random players should show their race in the loading screen. No reason not to if the only reason random players play random is to try out all 3 races.
Because you random players aren't really playing random for that advantage that everyone complains about, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? This really draws on the heart of the issue. Everybody with a semi-intelligent mind knows that Random gives an imbalance, fine so be it unless Blizzard changes it not much to be done about it and obviously everybody has the right to play Random if they want to, again, not much I can do about it it's not my call to make so whatever. I don't really get mad about people playing Random, if I meet them on ladder I'll just leave at the start because I see it as a complete waste of time, whatever that's fine. But what does annoy me is people trying to justify playing Random with half-assed illogical arguments that make no sense and then they go on to make threads like this to try and garner sympathy for when people do rage at them. No, if you play Random expect people to hate on you and own up to the fact that you are taking advantage of an imalance, don't spew bullshit at me and try to convince me that playing Random is totally fair becasue it's not, just be honest about it and we can get along just fine. why do people in this thread keep prefacing all their arguments with insults to people who disagree with them? it makes you look foolish, not the other people. I didn't insult anybody. I said people make threads like this to garner sympathy because many of them do with threads like "why do ppl get mad when I cheese?" or whatever. Aside from that the closest thing I said that comes close to an insult is my claim that people are "spewing bullshit" which is true if what they are saying doesn't actually make a logical argument, which it doesn't.
you said that "Everybody with a semi-intelligent mind knows that Random gives an imbalance," which means that if people disagree with you, they don't have a "semi-intelligent mind."
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For all those that are using the BS "if random is so good why isn't GSL dominated with them" argument.
You have a very simplistic understanding of the game. At the very highest levels of competition random looses it's advantage because it is impossible to practice all three races enough to be that skilled with all of them. HOWEVER that does not occur until well into the GM level of play. So for 99% of players below that level random still holds an advantage.
The thread is asking "why do people hate randoms?" this is why.
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On February 24 2012 05:56 Innovation wrote:
For all those that are using the BS "if random is so good why isn't GSL dominated with them" argument.
You have a very simplistic understanding of the game. At the very highest levels of competition random looses it's advantage because it is impossible to practice all three races enough to be that skilled with all of them. HOWEVER that does not occur until well into the GM level of play. So for 99% of players below that level random still holds an advantage.
The thread is asking "why do people hate randoms?" this is why.
Doesn't change the fact that randoms need to put in more time to be at the same level though. It seems pretty hard for some people to grasp that they're playing people who put in more time to get to the same level and now get some benefits out of that extra time which would probably have been greater if they practiced one race.
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On February 24 2012 05:56 Innovation wrote:
For all those that are using the BS "if random is so good why isn't GSL dominated with them" argument.
You have a very simplistic understanding of the game. At the very highest levels of competition random looses it's advantage because it is impossible to practice all three races enough to be that skilled with all of them. HOWEVER that does not occur until well into the GM level of play. So for 99% of players below that level random still holds an advantage.
The thread is asking "why do people hate randoms?" this is why.
I don't see the logic in why this would only apply to top levels.
You have to be able to play all three races at least as well as your opponent can play his at any level of play. So whether you're in bronze or in GM, your practice with each race is 1/3rd that of somebody who plays only one race.
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On February 24 2012 05:56 Innovation wrote:
For all those that are using the BS "if random is so good why isn't GSL dominated with them" argument.
You have a very simplistic understanding of the game. At the very highest levels of competition random looses it's advantage because it is impossible to practice all three races enough to be that skilled with all of them. HOWEVER that does not occur until well into the GM level of play. So for 99% of players below that level random still holds an advantage.
The thread is asking "why do people hate randoms?" this is why.
Play random then... its part of the starcraft 2 set of rules that we all share like the balance patchs.
If you want to compare who's got the bigger one and says its unfair to compare with random player, its BS, since at the very begining you can play random too, and if you don't it probably means you can't.
If you play to win and if random give an advantage, play random : its within the rules of the game. If you play for fun, who the f. care about that small advantage ?
For the record, I don't play random and I really don't mind playing against them. As you say, by playing only 1 race, you have the advantage to know the matchup better than so the random play. Well...
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On February 24 2012 05:56 Innovation wrote:
For all those that are using the BS "if random is so good why isn't GSL dominated with them" argument.
You have a very simplistic understanding of the game. At the very highest levels of competition random looses it's advantage because it is impossible to practice all three races enough to be that skilled with all of them. HOWEVER that does not occur until well into the GM level of play. So for 99% of players below that level random still holds an advantage.
The thread is asking "why do people hate randoms?" this is why.
To all of you propclaiming hatred for anything.
The Dalai Lama was once asked why he didnt hate the chinese for killing his people, taking over and exiling him from his country.
He replied "Would you have them take my mind as well?"
Get Learnt
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I see where most off the ppl is comming from here. If we want a summary of all the situations its like this.
70%
30%
What are these? These are about the correct'ish numbers of random players there are out there. Let's take all of these and put them into 100%.
70% of the random players are usually in lower leagues. It could be either a smurfing player or a guy who actually just goes random for the hell of it. These 70% is usually the ppl who are the " cheesers " and are the ppl pissing their opponents off.
The 20% are the ppl who actually play random because they want to learn every race and are going to play on a higher level enventually.
So I understand that ppl actually do whine about it... It's not so fun to get cheese'd - Cannon rush, SCV all-in, 6pool etc.
But these are the things that you will have to scout though. Not to sound like " Im better than you since i rarely lose to random ppl since i scout and know how to counter it ". No. This is not the fact. I actually loose 50-50 of my random match ups because i have a poor scouting or i dont know what to do when i see something new. If you win vs a random player or lose, no need to BM, its a game for practice and even if its frustrating to lose them points, just gotta sit up straight and click dat there Find Match button.
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EPT
