EPTWhy do people hate Random players ? - Page 26
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Sylailene
91 Posts
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
On February 23 2012 22:50 Marinechan wrote: When people choose random, their opponent assumes that they're going to cheese. I guess that's it, haha! 90% of the time, they cheese all the time. Protoss its usually some 3 /4 gate cheese Zerg its either roach rush/baneling bust, and if it goes past that more cheese terran its standard 1 base play lucky if I even get 20 minute game. I tend to win against random players in high diamond, they can never seem to beat me, they are usually terrible at macro, or have no follow up pushes. Or just play to turtly. | ||
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Timerly
Germany511 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:06 Resistentialism wrote: For a lot of people it's not that they hate seeing randoms cheese, it's that they are "practicing" (even if they are below masters), and XvR practice is of very questionable value. This is especially true with protoss, where you end up "practicing" your PvT where you have half a wall-in, or maybe your PvP after a 15 nexus. You'd think the rarity of playing versus random would roughly translate to the rarity of needing to practice essentially three new general playstyles (say PvR[T], PvR[Z] and PvR[P]), but it just feels like a waste of time. Seriously, if you 15nex without knowing your opponent's race (you can scout at 9 you know) you deserve the loss. You'd probably have BO losses even knowing your oppenent's race without getting any scout off, lol. Same thing for PvT, how is a pylon and maybe a gate at the top of your ramp a big disadvantage? There's no T allin where you'd want to fight on your ramp... | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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BeeNu
615 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:02 dAPhREAk wrote: i just told you he is GM on NA server (as far as I know; I believe he is kOre), and you can read back a few pages to see what he said. name one sc2 tournament that bans random because they consider it imbalanced? because the GSL allows random and I can't think of a more prestigious tournament. Yeah ok he's GM, big whoop, you don't necessarily have to be all that good to get to GM though, I mean plenty of people have gotten to GM with just grinding out games with cheese builds. I'll retract my statement that SC2 tourneys disallow Random, I was under the assumption that more tournaments did this because the only tournament I have played in had this rule and in SC1 random was eventually banned from most tournaments because it caused the metagame to stagnate and I had just assumed that SC2 was continuing this approach. I guess that in SC2 though this hasn't been as big an issue because most of the progamers already know that Random is a bad way to play and they don't need these Tournaments to enforce picking a race. Also if you want a quote I'll throw this out here: On April 23 2010 14:47 rauk wrote: random isn't bull*%**, you have to be proficient in 9 matchups. On April 23 2010 14:51 IdrA wrote: you dont need to be proficient in 9 matchups, you need 9 gay builds that take advantage of the fact that you unfairly handicap your opponent. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
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BeeNu
615 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:03 Pusekatten wrote: State of the game should talk about this random discussion on there next show  This would be nice, it would get the message across to all these people who are willfully ignorant on the issue. Also, Blizzard could fix the problem incredibly easily, let people pick Random but then have it still show the race they are going to play in the loading screen, problem solved. | ||
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1081 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:06 Zeevo wrote: Random players are so frustrating to play against because they get a HUGE advantage before the game even starts. Its quite frankly bullshit that random should be allowed. Makes no sense. Ever faced a random on Tal Darim as P. you instantly lose the game because if its zerg and you dont FFE you lost, and if you don't 4gate and its P then you lost. And its impossible to know. Personally i proxy 2gate random on 2 player maps and 4 gate on any other map. No, you don't. RvX Stats on Tal'Darim would be quite the story if that were the case. If anyone wants to start posting replays to back up their BS Random QQ, I will be glad to use my ImbaRandomSkillz to try to help you improve. | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
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Timerly
Germany511 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:15 BeeNu wrote: This would be nice, it would get the message across to all these people who are willfully ignorant on the issue. Also, Blizzard could fix the problem incredibly easily, let people pick Random but then have it still show the race they are going to play in the loading screen, problem solved. I second that, would not have a problem with that. I think it was already suggested to them a couple times but I guess they don't think it's an issue worth adressing... Sure, but 66.6% of the time, a 15 nex would have been a perfectly viable build, and against a random player probably pretty unpredictable. 66% is way better than most people's win rates, after all. And if I have a wall in PvT or PvP, it gives me a definite disadvantage. Eh, it dies to 6pool, 2rax (or 2rax rauders), 5-6rax, probably ling/bling all ins, 4gate, 2gate, cannon rush...how is 15nex a 66% viable build? Again, show me how the wall in on top gives you a disadvantage in PvT. I see PvP though. | ||
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Tal0n
United States175 Posts
other than that i suppose generally random players use more strategies designed to end the game early, since they have to spend 3 times as much time to collect as much experience as anyone who picks a race. that's cheese - people get mad when you cheese. | ||
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
On February 24 2012 04:04 Arghmyliver wrote: You suck and all you do is abusive all in builds. See how the argument falls apart when you just say random shit? Watch: Your mothers a hippo and all she does is all in builds. Once I ate an octopus and all it did was all in builds. Ten years ago I met a family of Garage Musicians. They sucked and only did abusive power chord builds. Once I was playing poker and lost cause the guy just did cheesy all-ins. Homer Dingleberry elephant night swallowers ate my rumpletweezer and my bubbles kerniggit cheesy all in builds. My argument doesnt fail.I played versus lots of randoms.I have never seen single good random player.Name me a good random player that actually won something. | ||
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NinjaTrout
United States35 Posts
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korona
1098 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:16 ke_ivan wrote: Yup, I think you nailed it man. Everyone plays safe against random. Random definitely gets to play his normal game while the normal players do not. I think that's a big part of it. This statement is false. I suggest playing random yourselves to see what kind of opponents you get. After playing some games you will notice that not all opponents play safe openings. One portion of opponents wants to end the game quickly and does a blind cheese such as proxy gates, early pool etc. without knowing what race the random player got. Some opponents start with greedy openers without knowing the random player's race. Both groups trust heavily on Lady Luck. Blind cheeses tend to fail if the random player got 'wrong race' or scouts the cheese. Greedy openers such as cannon ffe will also easily fail if the random player spawned as 'wrong race'. Random players must take these kind of opponents into account and cannot neglect scouting. It also seems that if the opponent starts complaining how unfair it is that random player's race is not shown or starts trashtalking in the beginning of the match, he is more likely to do a blind cheese or a greedy build. To sum it up. Random players tend to face a much more varied openers from their opponents for each matchup than race pickers: You get blind cheeses, safe builds, normal openers for each mu, extra greedy builds, etc. | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
" - people will complain about things they can't beat one way or another. check it out:On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". On February 24 2012 04:02 ZenithM wrote: THIS is why we don't like playing against Random. Not because you're all cheesy. Not because you're all better players than us. Not because you're all assholes. Because the game just doesn't make any sense against Random, no matter how good you are, or how good your Random fellow is... haha On February 24 2012 05:00 blade55555 wrote: I hate playing random because they all ways all in. 9 times out of 10 they all in which is why I always blindly prepare for it from a random and get an easy win most of the time  why do you hate random if you get an "easy win most of the time"? do they make sc2 not challenging for you, while your other random haters always lose to them? if they're so predictable, doesn't that by definition mean you will always have an optimal opening to them? On February 24 2012 05:20 Silentenigma wrote: My argument doesnt fail.I played versus lots of randoms.I have never seen single good random player.Name me a good random player that actually won something. you just made the argument and then failed to understand the conclusion - random players don't win anything because it's too hard. do you think people who pick random magically become bad players? is it just plain damning to anyone else that these random haters in here spout such wildly inconsistent things? | ||
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Kira__
Sweden2672 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1081 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:19 Tal0n wrote: the only time i hate random players is when they tell me their race at the start of a game. like wtf? other than that i suppose generally random players use more strategies designed to end the game early, since they have to spend 3 times as much time to collect as much experience as anyone who picks a race. that's cheese - people get mad when you cheese. Noooo. We just have to learn 3 times as many match-ups. You still earn the same amount of XP per win. | ||
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