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On January 11 2012 07:06 SnipedSoul wrote:
What should the penalty be? If anyone should be punished it should be the school for allowing this bullying to continue for an entire year. Students should feel safe at school and it's the school's job to provide a safe learning environment.
+10000000000000000
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On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful
See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared.
Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law.
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On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law.
indeed...
personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation.
i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks).
obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less.
wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder.
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United States5162 Posts
On January 11 2012 07:16 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law. indeed... personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation. i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks). obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less.
wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder.
That's awfully presumptuous considering the kid tried multiple times to avoid the fight.
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I can't even count the times I've read stories like this that turned out the other way around. Bullies randomly choose a victim, beat him up, things get out of hand and their victim ends up dead because they "overdid it".
Don't get me wrong, incidents like this are always sad, but if you ask me I'm glad it hit the one who started the violence and not his victim.
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School should not let this go on for a year. Bully should not bully. Kid should not stab other kid in head 12 times with a knife. Errbody fucked up here.
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On January 11 2012 07:16 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law. indeed... personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation. i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks). obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less. wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder.
Psychological torture I think is justifiable by murder. IMO. This thread is really just people's sense of justice coming out which is determined by their experience. There should be some kind of penalty, but no jail. Maybe some kind of criminal watch, anger management, and a psychological counselor to make sure the kid is fine. I think house arrest and something to make him understand his actions would be enough.
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On January 11 2012 07:16 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law. indeed... personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation. i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks). obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less.wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder.
Eh, that's far from certain. In fact most of the things I've read about the case suggest he didn't want to kill anyone. I don't get how you start with saying we don't have all facts and then end in the next breath concluding something as fact without anything to back it up other than weak circumstanital reasoning... Please.
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On January 11 2012 07:23 ampson wrote:
School should not let this go on for a year. Bully should not bully. Kid should not stab other kid in head 12 times with a knife. Errbody fucked up here.
there is no mention of the number of stab wounds, your quote figure came out of nowhere and has been misquoted by others on this thread. on a side note, the head is mainly thick skull bone, u can't simple stab it 12 times.
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The very fact that the kid had to carry a knife to school should be enough to tell you how bad the situation had gotten. Im sorry the bully died, but he had it comin to him. Maybe not death, but he was overdue for his own punishment and if thats what it takes for the bullied to not get beaten into a coma or brain-damaged potato for the rest of their life, then so be it. You know that bully knew what he was doing was wrong...
Again, sorry he died but I am overjoyed that at least one state in America has enough sense to let justice prevail.
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On January 11 2012 07:29 striderxxx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:23 ampson wrote:
School should not let this go on for a year. Bully should not bully. Kid should not stab other kid in head 12 times with a knife. Errbody fucked up here. there is no mention of the number of stab wounds, your quote figure came out of nowhere and has been misquoted by others on this thread. on a side note, the head is mainly thick skull bone, u can't simple stab it 12 times.
Fine, kid shouldn't have stabbed bully repeatedly. Stabbing is bad.
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I do not like this Stand your ground law that allows you to defend yourself by any means. I am not argueing that what the bully did was not wrong, but i am saying the society where something like this is allowed is fundementally flawed. when the killing of someone can be justified without absolute ceirtanty that they were going to be killed. And it was Jorge with the knife not the bully.
“As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.”
(yes heard it in civ5)
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On January 11 2012 07:44 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
I do not like this Stand your ground law that allows you to defend yourself by any means. I am not argueing that what the bully did was not wrong, but i am saying the society where something like this is allowed is fundementally flawed. when the killing of someone can be justified without absolute ceirtanty that they were going to be killed. And it was Jorge with the knife not the bully.
“As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.”
(yes heard it in civ5)
Can I have your magic eight ball that allows you to see into the future so if I can know when someone is about to beat the living daylights out of me if I'm just going to be sore for a week, become an invalid or simply die on the spot? Thanks in advance.
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United States7483 Posts
On January 11 2012 07:16 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law. indeed... personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation. i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks). obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less.wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder.
If you read the article, you'd understand that the kid tried really hard to avoid a fight and didn't want to do it. The bully kept pushing.
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The kid being bullied was carrying a knife for self defense, and forced to use it in an act of self defense. I dont see a problem there, the kid wasnt planning to kill the bully and he even tried to walk away.
Maybe the kid should've carried a nerf gun instead eh?
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On January 10 2012 15:12 askTeivospy wrote:
rofl at some of you for justifying this. he stabbed someone to death. HE KILLED SOMEONE. Bully or not he's a murderer, but its a dumb law and dumb laws are dumb
Are you really that delusional dear internet geniuses? If he was so forward thinking to bring of knife he should have been forward thinking enough to tell someone what was going to happen
He very may well have. School, and sometimes even police, authorities are often pretty negligent about things like this. Complaints tend to be ignored, or more often, recieve the token "Person X says you are going to beat him up Person Y, are you? Person Y: No." Then they can't do more, it's he said, she said.
Plus neither the police nor school are going to escort you around and make sure your safe at all times. If he had legitimate concern that he was in danger of receiving a violent beating it's perfectly reasonable for him to be armed so he can defend himself. What probably happened is that the bully attacked him and he lashed out with the knife intending to deter the bully. Unfortunately for both he probably hit a vital spot and the bully died.
Where do you think the stabber went wrong?
-Should he not have been armed, even knowing full well he could be brutally beaten?
-Despite being attacked, should be have not used the knife, even though that would mean getting heavily beat?
Trying to place myself in the victims shoes, I don't know what he could have done differently, going on the assumption that it's ridiculous that he should have to endure a beating. The only options I can think of to protect himself would be:
- Avoid school (probably not realisitic, since the bully could attack on any day)
- Get help from authorities (maybe he was in a place where he would get legitimate help, but frequently nothing comes from this)
- Have/Use a weapon for self-defense (this was the path he chose, ended in a very unfortunate result for both parties)
Your thoughts?
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On January 11 2012 07:53 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:16 shizna wrote:On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law. indeed... personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation. i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks). obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less.wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder. If you read the article, you'd understand that the kid tried really hard to avoid a fight and didn't want to do it. The bully kept pushing.
And therefore is was ok to fucking kill the bully with a knive?
Are you serious?... How can you defend that kid... Yeah, the bullying should have been stopped, but the moment that kid stabbed even once he should get punished for fucking stabbing someone with a knive and not taking a "normal" alternative route.
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On January 11 2012 07:57 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:53 Whitewing wrote:On January 11 2012 07:16 shizna wrote:On January 11 2012 07:09 Percutio wrote:On January 11 2012 06:59 Calm wrote:On January 11 2012 06:29 SnipedSoul wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that this kid tried his best to avoid the bullies. He heard that they wanted to fight him so he got off the bus early and once they found him he tried to get away. It was only when they were punching him in the back of the head as he tried to escape that he resorted to violence.
The judge made the right decision. You're correct, the judge made the right decision. But don't lose sight of the fact that this is only ok in Florida because of the laws there. I'm a bit upset that the stabber is getting off penalty-free. I don't have the details and haven't looked through the thread, but if it was a pocket knife it probably took more than one stab to kill the attacker. Imho, one stab would have been enough to stop the conflict. I don't know everything that was going through the stabber's head, but he took a life. Whether that's what Florida intended when passing their Stand Your Ground law will become evident in the next few weeks if it is altered or not. My apologies for not using names, I'm bad for remembering. I don't mean to be disrespectful See the problem with saying that is the lack of evidence that we have available that the judge did have. If it was much higher number of stabs than it would be harder to justify, but with 12 there could be a surprising amount of superficial cuts or cuts which actually wouldn't stop the attack seeing as how there could be any combination of fatal, damaging, and superficial wounds. Additionally the actual circumstances of the fight aren't clear for people not involved in the case. If the victim was punched in the back of the head and knocked to the ground by the bully then a lot of wounds could happen quickly if the victim was now panicked, injured, and scared. Obviously the judge seems to think that it wasn't some premeditated murder or went beyond some kind of defense, especially by Florida law. indeed... personally i have no problem with him carrying a knife. i took a knife to school, lots of kids took knives to school. it was the 'cool' thing for my generation. i remember someone holding a knife to my throat in school, but i knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't cut me (he wasn't provoked at all, he did it for kicks). obviously in this case we don't have all of the facts. if the kid got the knife out and the bully saw the knife and continued to fight then i could see it as an accident. but there's no evidence to suggest this (and it would be rather insane of the bully), it looks like a concealed knife which caught the bully completely by suprise... there's no getting away from the fact that the kid wanted the bully DEAD... nothing less.wishing someone dead is possibly the worst thing you could ever do... bullying is not comparable to murder. If you read the article, you'd understand that the kid tried really hard to avoid a fight and didn't want to do it. The bully kept pushing. And therefore is was ok to fucking kill the bully with a knive. WTF? Seriously... How can you defend that kid... Yeah, the bullying should have been stopped, but the moment that kid stabbed even once he should get punished for fucking stabbing someone with a knive.
Sorry that's not how the law works in Florida. Read the last 20 or so pages if you have trouble understanding what he did was not illegal.
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Yeah, and i don't give a fuck about how the law is in Florida and i didn't for the last 20 pages.
I give a fuck about so many people here thinking somehow it is ok for that kid to kill it's bully with a knive and walking away whiteout any punishment.
Laws are subject to change. Laws also don't make morally "right or wrong".
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Defending yourself rather than expecting someone else to do it for you is somewhat of a foreign thing to Westerners who aren't American.
Non-Westerners don't seem to have much trouble with it, though.
All the ridiculous manufactured self-righteous indignation going on is pretty funny. He was backed into a corner and he went into fight-or-flight mode and he fought. Good for him and too bad he's going to live the rest of his life knowing he killed someone. Poor kid.
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EPT
