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United States5162 Posts
On January 11 2012 08:24 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
But you are instilling kids with the wrong state of mind, even if he has no joy for killing someone he sees it as a solution, when nothing else worked. You need to implement a better solution to stem these incidents off earlier. its almost like these types of laws exist because people beleive violence is the solution and therefore there should be no problem with it. After all why would you let someone kill someone else to stop their problem unless there was no better method of resolving conflict?
The bullying situation we have in the US(I don't know about elsewhere) is horrible. Being teased and feeling a little isolated is a normal part of growing up, so when you tell people in authority that you're being bullied it doesn't seem to register to them that it's far beyond normal teasing. Then the bullying only gets worse as a result. So when you have little choice but to avoid them, or confront them, there's no reason to hold the victim responsible for what happens in self defense. If anyone should be held responsible, it's the adults he undoubtedly told, but didn't or couldn't stop it.
edit: and by horrible I don't mean you see a ton of kids getting the crap beat out of them by bullies, but that when you do, it's not taken seriously.
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On January 10 2012 15:07 firehand101 wrote:
he is only a kid, but still murder is murder
Murder is the taking of an innocent life. If you threaten to fight someone, circle them jabbing at them and strike their head, you are not innocent.
Kind of like how killing in war and in capital punishment are not murder, the people being killed are not innocent.
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On January 11 2012 08:24 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
But you are instilling kids with the wrong state of mind, even if he has no joy for killing someone he sees it as a solution, when nothing else worked. You need to implement a better solution to stem these incidents off earlier. its almost like these types of laws exist because people beleive violence is the solution and therefore there should be no problem with it. After all why would you let someone kill someone else to stop their problem unless there was no better method of resolving conflict?
Hey straw man. Violence is not the best solution for bullying. Violence can be the best solution where you are in a situation of imminent and serious threat. If you feel someone is going to kill you, you'll just lay down and die? Try to talk them straight? Yeah...
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On January 11 2012 08:24 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
But you are instilling kids with the wrong state of mind, even if he has no joy for killing someone he sees it as a solution, when nothing else worked. You need to implement a better solution to stem these incidents off earlier. its almost like these types of laws exist because people beleive violence is the solution and therefore there should be no problem with it. After all why would you let someone kill someone else to stop their problem unless there was no better method of resolving conflict?
You can set all the laws and regulations you want, and there will still be people who don't give a damn about them and break them. When that happens and they intrude on another person's personal space, do you really expect the law abiding person to keep personal respect to the person that breaks them.
Society continues to move, because we have set a standard of what we want to live in. We set a point in the vastness of possibilities to move onto another point. However, by setting these such standards we also create sides of right and wrong in a world that people have conflicting multiple opinions and views on. When you create laws, there is bound to be criticism from somewhere, and you should realize you can't please everyone at the same time.
Having said that, you should realize that some people in this world don't give a damn about our society's law and order, and the only protection you can really depend on is yourself. That is why laws like these exists. Castle laws/doctrine, stand your ground laws, they are made so that people can defend themselves against people who don't give respect to people's property and safety.
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In my opinion in every european country there also should be a law like The Florida's Stand Your Ground law, from then on any other bully which is using the victim "weakness show" for their own pleasure of dominating in a man to man combat/relationship would be discouraged to do such a thing.
In my opinion this incident should be spoken in every school in the US. It'd probably taught 20% of people in every school of what consequences can bullying to other people bring.
The lesson for any other bullied one is to go to train martial arts quickly for whatever the price as possible, everywhere possible instead of bringing a knife with them. That's why chinese monks actually developed those. Because it's pure natural and safe. Without any actual harm beside the possibility to do so.
And there is also the such a big lesson for the family of the bully. Well, it's not his fault that he acted like this, he learned at home, given that he probably didn't have enough care and affection through all his life with his home parent to parent who may had Who has the power now problems.
Given that it's obviously never ever the problem was never ever in any of those kids. In situations like this not the children should be judged but the parents, who probably should go to jail because they didn't react and didn't react in time they needed to, and also brought up their children, without any actual knowledge how to do so, which they brought up from their parents which was closing the circle, doesn't it.. ?
So instead of the children which what so ever probably have had no actual Deep idea what've they done or what they've been doing and which won't unless you leave them alone, so they will have to figure things out, like I said before instead of the children the parents should be judged, then prosecuted and sentenced. The fault never lies in children because even they have to learn they're 100% responsible for themselves. Hopefully or ironically.
I actually wanna thank to those parents because I think I actually just learned something here. Peace
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On January 11 2012 08:37 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:07 firehand101 wrote:
he is only a kid, but still murder is murder Murder is the taking of an innocent life. If you threaten to fight someone, circle them jabbing at them and strike their head, you are not innocent. Kind of like how killing in war and in capital punishment are not murder, the people being killed are not innocent.
Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being. It has nothing to do with innocents. It was not murder and that's why there is no punishment.
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United States5162 Posts
On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here.
You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal.
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On January 11 2012 08:55 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here. You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal.
Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly?
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On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 08:55 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here. You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal. Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly?
2 inch by 4 inch piece of lumber usually 6-8ft long but can be cut to any length.
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On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:
Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly?
It's a generic term for a plank of wood/dimensional lumber.
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On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly?
In the United States, "2x4" or "two by four" is a colloquialism for a large plank of wood. It refers to the common lumber sizing with a nominal depth of two inches and width of four inches, of varying (but generally long) lengths.
Example:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 11 2012 08:09 Velr wrote:
Fighting is one thing. I fought my share of "big" guys and ate the hits of the "too big" guys...
Swinging a knive in a way that you kill someone and "connect" multiple times (12?!) with it is something entirely diffrent than "fighting" or "self defense". Thats most likely "revenge"...
Take a Knive and stab something 12 times... That takes time, it's not some "reflex"...
And yes, this is a "Western" thing.. Because thats one of the things that separates a modern society from eye for an eye and other barbarian middle age bullshit.
Without a doubt We can say that the victim pulled the knife with the intention of self defense against an assault. Since the bully have attacked first. Now all that's left is to think whether the knifing is considered a use of excessive force. While under attack and fighting it is rather difficult to judge to amount of force neccesary to guarantee self safety, even for adults, not mention a kid. It is difficult to judge how many times he should knife the bully to guarantee his safety. Thus you cannot punish him for use of excessive force.
On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 08:55 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here. You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal. Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly?
Standard Lumber
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On January 11 2012 09:00 Dizmaul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:On January 11 2012 08:55 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here. You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal. Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly? 2 inch by 4 inch piece of lumber usually 6-8ft long but can be cut to any length.
I think I just felt 2 inch by 4 inch 6-8ft piece of lumber on the back of my head
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On January 11 2012 09:03 krzych113 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 09:00 Dizmaul wrote:On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:On January 11 2012 08:55 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here. You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal. Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly? 2 inch by 4 inch piece of lumber usually 6-8ft long but can be cut to any length. I think I just felt 2 inch by 4 inch 6-8ft piece of lumber on the back of my head
It must've hurt....
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On January 11 2012 09:04 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 09:03 krzych113 wrote:On January 11 2012 09:00 Dizmaul wrote:On January 11 2012 08:59 krzych113 wrote:On January 11 2012 08:55 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 08:49 Barrin wrote:
Florida has a bunch of self-defense and property-defense and friend/family-defense laws like this. You really don't want to fuck with people's shit down here. You really don't. I just realized this, but where this happened is the county directly south of where I grew up. If you want to hear something that's a little more borderline(imo), my dad got his head smashed a couple times with a 2x4 when he was going through some guys shed looking for gas(he was drunk -_-) and it was perfectly legal. Tell me, what's a 2x4 exactly? 2 inch by 4 inch piece of lumber usually 6-8ft long but can be cut to any length. I think I just felt 2 inch by 4 inch 6-8ft piece of lumber on the back of my head It must've hurt....
It did ....
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When I read the title I was like, "Bully does not justify murder."
Then I read, "self defense."
Karma's a bitch.
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On January 10 2012 15:09 Regime wrote:
what bullshit it doesnt matter if u think ur in danger. call the police... u cant carry a knife thats intent theres no way around it
It isn't intent... he TOLD the bully "I don't want to fight you." How is that intent? AND he had pretty good knowledge that he was going to be seriously hurt, AND the bully hit him first. Sad, but kid got what he deserved.
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Killing people with knife: Bad
Hounding someone to bully and then surrounding them and hitting them: Really bad
Getting stabbed because you hounded someone and then put them into a situation where they got desperate: Really really really bad
Schools/Parents didn't do jackshit in interim: Even worse
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On January 11 2012 08:54 Dizmaul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 08:37 Luepert wrote:On January 10 2012 15:07 firehand101 wrote:
he is only a kid, but still murder is murder Murder is the taking of an innocent life. If you threaten to fight someone, circle them jabbing at them and strike their head, you are not innocent. Kind of like how killing in war and in capital punishment are not murder, the people being killed are not innocent. Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being. It has nothing to do with innocents. It was not murder and that's why there is no punishment.
I think you could argue either of these, you both agree with the stance, just stating it a different way 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/2_By_4_Clue_Stick.jpg)
