EPTmoral of the story? don't bully... :|
Bully Victim stabbed Bully to Death - Page 48
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
moral of the story? don't bully... :| | ||
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JeanLuc
Canada377 Posts
nevertheless based on the details of the story I think the force used was excessive. I don't want to see the bullied kid go to jail but it seems some punishment should be meted out, otherwise this will serve as a bad example. For instance, when I initially read OP's summary of the fight I imagined the bully and his gang collectively surrounding bullied kid to beat him down. In that case using the knife would have been justified. But later when I read OP more carefully I saw that there was a crowd of kids egging them on but it was a 1 on 1 fight... in that case I dont think the law can justify someone using lethal force with a weapon, I'm sorry. | ||
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ch72105
24 Posts
I'm not sure how anyone can think it's worth it to trade the slight possibility of serious bodily harm, for the guaranteed mental/emotional trauma of stabbing somebody to death. I just think you have to be emotionally disturbed to ever bring yourself to stab somebody to death, unless it was clearly a life or death situation. Schoolyard fight with students surrounding you in a ring isn't a life or death situation. I hope he's at least ordered/encouraged to seek psychological treatment. Would any of you feel safe around him? | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
The first human instinct is to stay alive. Given that the boy's life was in danger, he clearly found it necessary to stab the other boy to death. I don't see what is disturbing. Premeditated self defense is what i can conclude. | ||
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-y0shi-
Germany994 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:34 JeanLuc wrote: My instinct is to side with the bullied kid, I can't summon too much sympathy within myself for those jackass kids who won't live and let live... nevertheless based on the details of the story I think the force used was excessive. I don't want to see the bullied kid go to jail but it seems some punishment should be meted out, otherwise this will serve as a bad example. For instance, when I initially read OP's summary of the fight I imagined the bully and his gang collectively surrounding bullied kid to beat him down. In that case using the knife would have been justified. But later when I read OP more carefully I saw that there was a crowd of kids egging them on but it was a 1 on 1 fight... in that case I dont think the law can justify someone using lethal force with a weapon, I'm sorry. The guy was 3 years older and doing martial arts... | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:35 ch72105 wrote: The odds that the knife and the murder saved the defendant from death or seriously bodily harm, are incredibly slim. I'm not sure how anyone can think it's worth it to trade the slight possibility of serious bodily harm, for the guaranteed mental/emotional trauma of stabbing somebody to death. I just think you have to be emotionally disturbed to ever bring yourself to stab somebody to death, unless it was clearly a life or death situation. Schoolyard fight with students surrounding you in a ring isn't a life or death situation. I hope he's at least ordered/encouraged to seek psychological treatment. Would any of you feel safe around him? Yea, pretty much. Given that apparently it takes an entire years worth of harassment to get him to be physically violent, I'd feel extremely safe around him. | ||
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ChinaRestaurant
Austria324 Posts
On the one side what he did was not 'right' thats for sure. On the other hand it was the bullies that initiated the conflict in the first place. People that age know what theyre doing isnt okay. Its degrading and dangerous. No wonder the kid went into vietnam flashback mode once he got started with the knife, I cant blame him for that. Were I in his situation I'm not sure I would've acted any differently. Even though while I'm writing this I know this course of action might not be right, I've fantasized about harming my bullies often enough. Never really killing them but hurting them in a way that would kill them in real life (if that makes any sense, I'd never really want to kill anyone, but making someone suffer for what they did to me often crosses my mind). | ||
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Scorm
United States104 Posts
In all seriousness: That is pretty crazy that someone his age feels so threatened. I wish there would be more done to stop bullies. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:35 ch72105 wrote: The odds that the knife and the murder saved the defendant from death or seriously bodily harm, are incredibly slim. I'm not sure how anyone can think it's worth it to trade the slight possibility of serious bodily harm, for the guaranteed mental/emotional trauma of stabbing somebody to death. I just think you have to be emotionally disturbed to ever bring yourself to stab somebody to death, unless it was clearly a life or death situation. Schoolyard fight with students surrounding you in a ring isn't a life or death situation. I hope he's at least ordered/encouraged to seek psychological treatment. Would any of you feel safe around him? Slim? Slight possibility? What are you on? The judge concluded the opposite of that, I suppose you have better grounds for your opinion? And I'd have no problem being around him judging from what I know about it all. You make it sound like he sought out the confrontation with the intention of stabbing the bully to death. Since he tried to avoid the confrontation that seems like a silly conclusion to make. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:39 shinosai wrote: Yea, pretty much. Given that apparently it takes an entire years worth of harassment to get him to be physically violent, I'd feel extremely safe around him. All it takes is one accidental stab. He may have nicked the bully a few times and the guy wasn't deterred. He then went for a more desperate stab and unfortunately for both struck a vital organ. I'll ask again since no one responded: Where do you think the stabber went wrong? -Should he not have been armed, even knowing full well he could be brutally beaten? -Despite being attacked, should be have not used the knife, even though that would mean getting heavily beat? Trying to place myself in the victims shoes, I don't know what he could have done differently, going on the assumption that it's ridiculous that he should have to endure a beating. The only options I can think of to protect himself would be: - Avoid school (probably not realisitic, since the bully could attack on any day) - Get help from authorities (maybe he was in a place where he would get legitimate help, but frequently nothing comes from this) - Have/Use a weapon for self-defense (this was the path he chose, ended in a very unfortunate result for both parties) Your thoughts? | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:26 GenesisX wrote: bully totally got what he deserved moral of the story? don't bully... :| No kid ever deserves to die. The bully was young, he made mistakes, as we all do. He did not deserve to be stabbed to death. | ||
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Sipher
United States333 Posts
There are some real nasty people out there. My advice, carry protection and hope you never have to use it. But why take the chance? I dunno, maybe I was just raised differently, but I firmly believe in protecting myself and my family and I will do so at all costs. Believe me, I'd rather someone not get killed; especially a kid. But if you constantly threaten someone for a year (and it sounds like it was escalating towards that fight), then you are setting yourself up for disaster. The bully was thrashing on the kid's head...In my point of view, there was no murder here and it was self defense. EDIT: Just wanted to state that I don't condone killing people in any way; the point of my post was to say my viewpoint on a kid reacting to a situation that many probably would never understand. | ||
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ch72105
24 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:45 nihlon wrote: Slim? Slight possibility? What are you on? The judge concluded the opposite of that, I suppose you have better grounds for your opinion? And I'd have no problem being around him judging from what I know about it all. You make it sound like he sought out the confrontation with the intention of stabbing the bully to death. Since he tried to avoid the confrontation that seems like a silly conclusion to make. How exactly do I make it sound like that?? I never said he sought it out, he obviously tried to walk away, but just because he didn't want to stab the kid to death doesn't mean it's justified. These kind of bullying incidents happen thousands of times a year and only once every few years do you hear about it resulting in death or disability. It's just really unlikely either of those things were going to happen. I'm curious how the legal system and the public in Sweden would react to something like this? This feels pretty common in the US, is it the same in Europe? | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
No kid ever deserves to die. The bully was young, he made mistakes, as we all do. He did not deserve to be stabbed to death. What do you feel should have been done differently here, because I don't see it. Should the victim have just let himself be treated as a punching bag for the guy's frustrations? Should he have refrained from defending himself in a fight he tried his best to avoid, but could not, to try and not harm the guy that's forcing them to fight and that's doing his very best to harm him as much as possible? Whether or not he deserved to die for what he did is irrelevant, he pushed someone to the point where they were physically endangered to the point where fatal force was justified as self defence. He fully brought it on himself. These kind of bullying incidents happen thousands of times a year and only once every few years do you hear about it resulting in death or disability. It's just really unlikely either of those things were going to happen. I'm sure that's what you would've done in this situation, right? Just thought to yourself, statistically it's not very likely this guy that's one foot taller than me and practices martial arts and has bullied and beaten me up daily for the last year and that's wailing on me right now is going to cause me extremely serious physical harm. I should just let myself be beaten around instead of make an effort to defend myself so he can continue to torment me for years to come. Because that's what any rational person would have done, right? Seriously, stop living in your fantasy world. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
Think of it as the stabbing scene from westside story, but only one guy has a knife and there is more flailing. | ||
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ch72105
24 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:56 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: What do you feel should have been done differently here, because I don't see it. Should the victim have just let himself be treated as a punching bag for the guy's frustrations? Should he have refrained from defending himself in a fight he tried his best to avoid, but could not, to try and not harm the guy that's forcing them to fight and that's doing his very best to harm him as much as possible? I'm sure that's what you would've done in this situation, right? Just thought to yourself, statistically it's not very likely this guy that's one foot taller than me and practices martial arts and has bullied and beaten me up daily for the last year and that's wailing on me right now is going to cause me extremely serious physical harm. I should just let myself be beaten around instead of make an effort to defend myself so he can continue to torment me for years to come. I really have no idea what I would've done, I've never been bullied. I don't think I would've started carrying a knife in the first place though. What about pepper spray? | ||
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ch72105
24 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:56 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: What do you feel should have been done differently here, because I don't see it. Should the victim have just let himself be treated as a punching bag for the guy's frustrations? Should he have refrained from defending himself in a fight he tried his best to avoid, but could not, to try and not harm the guy that's forcing them to fight and that's doing his very best to harm him as much as possible? I'm sure that's what you would've done in this situation, right? Just thought to yourself, statistically it's not very likely this guy that's one foot taller than me and practices martial arts and has bullied and beaten me up daily for the last year and that's wailing on me right now is going to cause me extremely serious physical harm. I should just let myself be beaten around instead of make an effort to defend myself so he can continue to torment me for years to come. Because that's what any rational person would have done, right? Shut up. Sorry I responded before you edited in the ultra-internet-tough "Shut up" to the end. Don't you find it at all ironic that you're on the internet defending a victim of bullying and you're behaving like one yourself? I'm just more resistant to the idea that it's ok to kill somebody, that's all. I look for alternatives. | ||
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ch72105
24 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:56 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: What do you feel should have been done differently here, because I don't see it. Should the victim have just let himself be treated as a punching bag for the guy's frustrations? Should he have refrained from defending himself in a fight he tried his best to avoid, but could not, to try and not harm the guy that's forcing them to fight and that's doing his very best to harm him as much as possible? Whether or not he deserved to die for what he did is irrelevant, he pushed someone to the point where they were physically endangered to the point where fatal force was justified as self defence. He fully brought it on himself. I'm sure that's what you would've done in this situation, right? Just thought to yourself, statistically it's not very likely this guy that's one foot taller than me and practices martial arts and has bullied and beaten me up daily for the last year and that's wailing on me right now is going to cause me extremely serious physical harm. I should just let myself be beaten around instead of make an effort to defend myself so he can continue to torment me for years to come. Because that's what any rational person would have done, right? Seriously, stop living in your fantasy world. Sorry, responded before you changed it to "stop living in your fantasy world." I don't think I'm living in a fantasy world but I guess I'll try to give that some consideration. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
On January 11 2012 10:01 ch72105 wrote: I really have no idea what I would've done, I've never been bullied. I don't think I would've started carrying a knife in the first place though. What about pepper spray? In Florida children can't buy pepper spray. He would have had to go through his parents, which means he would have had to tell his parents he was being bullied which it sounds to me he was trying to avoid. Having a knife to pull out and scare a bully away with is much simpler, but apparently the knife didn't quite work out as planned. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On January 11 2012 09:55 ch72105 wrote: How exactly do I make it sound like that?? I never said he sought it out, he obviously tried to walk away, but just because he didn't want to stab the kid to death doesn't mean it's justified. These kind of bullying incidents happen thousands of times a year and only once every few years do you hear about it resulting in death or disability. It's just really unlikely either of those things were going to happen. I'm curious how the legal system and the public in Sweden would react to something like this? This feels pretty common in the US, is it the same in Europe? You made it sound like you are basing your oppinions on statistics which have nothing to do with this individual case, which you even confirm in this post. In several parts of your post you also indicated he had premeditation (sought it out figurativly) I'm not sure how anyone can think it's worth it to trade the slight possibility of serious bodily harm, for the guaranteed mental/emotional trauma of stabbing somebody to death. I just think you have to be emotionally disturbed to ever bring yourself to stab somebody to death, unless it was clearly a life or death situation. Schoolyard fight with students surrounding you in a ring isn't a life or death situation You assume his intention was not to defend himself but to kill the bully. The judge saw it as self defense which is not the same thing and you don't have to be "emotionally disturbed" for such an outcome. You bringing up statistics for bullying is stupid. Exchange the word bullying for assault and you get a different results. You have to look at the individual case, not mindlessly attributing things that is not relevant for the situation we are talking of. The fact that few bullying cases lead to death have no significance here. | ||
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