EPTCorrect Mr. Chae Statement - Page 8
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bLooD.
Germany470 Posts
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gullberg
Sweden1301 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:59 labbe wrote: Okay, so let's say that I actually buy that this is NOT actually a "punishment". There is still some incredible double standards going on here. They are basically saying they are not inviting Naniwa based upon him not respecting the sanctity of competition. Yet at the same time they are inviting players directly into Code S, with very arbitrary reasoning, basically making the seeds to Code S a giant popularity contest, and that totally goes against the spirit of the competition. I can't really make sense of this. Well how do you gain that popularity? By doing well at tournaments, is it really that arbitrary of a reason? On December 15 2011 04:02 bLooD. wrote: GOM´s statements are such jokes.... no 1 would even care if it happened at any other events. Uhhhh, don't you remember that Naniwa was banned from IEM and EPS? Tournaments outside of korea ARE taking action. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:02 HandleTaken wrote: I must admit my initial reaction upon hearing about this was: - Sigh, what did Naniwa do this time? But after reading what actually transpired I think GOM overreacted. Compare this to the Champions League soccer group game between Dinamo Zagreb vs Lyon. Zagreb had nothing to play for but Lyon did. Lyon won 7 - 1 and advanced from the group. Did Zagreb get thrown out of next CL-season? No, even though that match actually mattered. I certainly won't subscribe to GSL after something like this happens. They still scored a goal. That's more than what Naniwa did. He basically walked off the field when the whistle blew. | ||
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msl
Germany477 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:02 whereyouat wrote: Overturned due to blatent unprofessionalism. Awarded to players more deserving of being named 'CODE S' you overturn a ruling, not an obligation pacta sunt servanda | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:00 Trsjnica wrote: I am unsure how that disrespects GSL. Further 3 months ago would be over a GSL season ago. In 3 months, Naniwa will not be being punished by the GSL in any way, and he will have every opportunity to compete in the GSL which begins in three months. I don't believe Idra ever insulted a player while he was competing in the GSL. Have I misremembered? because if he had, I'm willing to bet they'd kick him from Code S and ban him. | ||
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:59 Phantom_Sky wrote: from GomTV official statement http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291 At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. from that line, it is pretty clear that a Code S should be awarded to Naniwa. Mr.Chae, are you going to honor what you/ GomTV promised? This line of argument seems unreasonable to me. It is not that GOM is not honoring that promise, it is that Naniwa lost his spot due to outside actions. I don't think you can reasonably argue that players should not be able to lose spots due to other actions. For example, if a player won MLG, but during the month before GSL, was caught cheating and fixing games for profit in NASL, Dreamhack, ladder, AND IEM-- they would surely lose their GSL Code S spot, and no one would complain. Thus, this established that was all agree that at least *some actions* are sufficient to cause a player to lose a Code S spot, and that this is NOT an example of GOM not honoring their promise. Rather, the argument here is really over whether Naniwa's actions were sufficient to justify the punishment that was given, and NOT whether GSL is honoring their promise re: MLG. | ||
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Arun
United States56 Posts
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baoluvboa
743 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:03 msl wrote: you overturn a ruling, not an obligation pacta sunt servanda There was no obligation if you actually read the new updates No deal in 2012. Misunderstanding between MLG and GOM | ||
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DarK[A]
United States217 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:27 stokes17 wrote: Because it appears that he is treating naniwa and Johan as two entities, What he's saying is they Invited a professional, and were given an amateur so they are pulling the seed? That's the correct interpretation? Yes the correct interpretation is that they are associating more than skill to the definition of "professional gamer". I think this statement (assuming this is the final, correct translation) is absolutely brilliant and really shows their position well. Being a professional gamer is about so much more than winning games, and you don't have to be one to realize that. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:01 4of8 wrote: We don't believe that winning games and getting prizes make you a pro-gamer. So they don't believe in the common definition of a progamer. Which is basicly your getting enough money from gaming to life from that. Atleast he was that "professional" and didn't call him "an amateur prize money hunter." But still if this is what he has said, I am pretty curious why they invited Idra, who didn't even qualify. Wasn't Idras reasoning for his withdrawal of the IPL3 groupstage, that the games were meaningless and he wasn't in the shape to bring his a-game? I hope for idra no one tells Mr.Chae about this stuff. His main reason for withdrawal was probably exhaustion. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Please limit the discussion in this thread to what was said during today's Blizzard cup Korean stream and discuss the issue of NaNiwa & Code S seed in 100 other threads. I understand you are all upset, but let's try to stay on topic. Does anyone have a link to the stream so that we can get independent confirmation on the transcript and translation? | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:01 Kich wrote: Really? That's a supremely stark and ignoble outlook on life as a whole. People, unanimously, are forced to do things they don't want to do on a daily basis and I would say, as a general statement, do more than the bare minimum because they understand the importance of it. It's this mentality that really bothers me, he's a professional. His job is to be above the 99% of other gamers, to never just settle for the bare minimum (especially given his own goals), and to try his hardest at every given opportunity no matter how hopeless it may seem or how worthless it may be. How can one even believe Naniwa when he says "I want to be the best" when he can hardly hold himself to those standards? Throwing a game isn't something someone who wants to be the best does--the rationalization that the match doesn't matter says that the tournament is more important to Naniwa than how good he as a player is. I've seen many people writing, "But they do it in other sports, why is it ok there?" It's not ok, it's never ok, the fact people don't give a shit isn't ok. I read these tournament reports of Magic the Gathering, people splitting prize pools or drawing into the top 8 because the game doesn't matter, or sports teams not trying their best because they games don't matter. They do matter, they all matter, but when you put winning above being the best, I guess you lose sight of that somewhere. He can still strive to be the best whilst not playing Nestea ya know. Just because he didn't want to feel stressed or continue on for a match that shouldn't have even taken place (wtf? No incentive match?) doesn't mean his statement of wanting to be the best is unbelievable. On the contrary, because the match wasn't that important and he didn't take it seriously, you can count on him taking the ones that matter more way more seriously. Your statement is invalid. | ||
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Odoakar
Croatia1837 Posts
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
They must have a different definition of "professional" in Korea, maybe we need a better translation? Money is what distinguishes amateurs and professionals; Maybe a loss in foreign viewership will illustrate this. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
Yeah, whoever got ridiculed for an opinion on the internet? | ||
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Skyreaper
70 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:02 bLooD. wrote: GOM´s statements are such jokes.... no 1 would even care if it happened at any other events. GSL is for the pro-gamers only not like any other amateur league. | ||
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Shalarn
Canada15 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:59 gullberg wrote: Please, in what country would this kind of behavior ever be acceptable? In what workplace would you find someone bitching about a rule not existing about doing "random disrespectful thing". This is not about culture, this is about professionalism and taking your job seriously. MLG should've punished Naniwa aswell because he ridiculed them. I don't it's too much to ask to be manner and nice to the people around you while you're at work. I disagree. I think the recently presented definition of pro gamer is quite culturally influenced. I also think that the definition of 'random disrespectful thing' changes dramatically in various cultural settings. Because there is a question of what is disrespectful and specifically the magnitude of that disrespect, there need to be extremely clear lines drawn about what is and what is not acceptable. I think that this will come with some problems, but I would much rather have a player removed from a tournament because they had accumulated too many penalty points like in ESL than have a player lose his or her seed for ambiguous reasons. Certainly there will always be new problems, but the way to address each newly discovered 'disrespectful thing' is to mention it once and create a rule. In a global league, we must consider global attitudes. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:47 KingVietKong wrote: I can see why this happened and basically get behind it.... EXCEPT Nestea did this at the last game of Blizzcon. The only difference is it took (56?) or so minutes, was against a teammate, and had an actual consequence. Yet no peep from any of these pro-gaming philosophers. Naniwa deserved some punishment, be it the boot or a fine of some kind, but every time someone at GOM or the head coach of IM (especially him, god wish he didn't have a twitter) talks about pro gamer ideals as the basis for this punishment, I'm reminded of that travesty of a game. I'm glad there's rules. I just wish they were applied uniformly (and if this is an ideological thing then yes, the Blizzcon games fall under jurisdiction as far as I'm concerned). User was temp banned for this post. Haha um... you are a dumbass. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:56 OldManSenex wrote: I'm worried about the implications of a player being denied a seed because they used a strategy that the tournament staff didn't like. Sure, a probe pull at the start of the game is unlikely to win, particularly at the pro level, but it's not the same as just leaving the game. This ethereal, "the player didn't try hard enough," makes me twitchy, because it is a completely subjective measurement. That is not a strategy. Stop trying to veil what NaNiwa did as some form of strategy that was designed to have any success. He himself has said that he didn't try. This has nothing to do with GOM not liking his strategy. It has everything to do with them not liking his persona and attitude. | ||
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bLooD.
Germany470 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:03 gullberg wrote: Well how do you gain that popularity? By doing well at tournaments, is it really that arbitrary of a reason? Uhhhh, don't you remember that Naniwa was banned from IEM and EPS? Tournaments outside of korea ARE taking action. He was NOT banned from EPS for throwing a game... rofl.... He was banned for bm´ing refs and players and showing up late for matches. | ||
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