EPT
, it's a decision that at least will not make them lose money. We shouldn't talk too much about moral and value in a scene that is now fully powered by money.Correct Mr. Chae Statement - Page 12
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iFU.pauline
France1655 Posts
, it's a decision that at least will not make them lose money. We shouldn't talk too much about moral and value in a scene that is now fully powered by money. | ||
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:13 o[twist] wrote: cheating and fixing games is breaking the law, this wasn't. i'm not an sc2 person but this is absolutely unfair. nfl teams "suck for luck." hell at the bnp paribas masters tennis tournament alex bogomolov jr. said "i don't want to be here" and almost retired without even having been injured. these sorts of things can result in some kind of fine or citation but never in somebody just saying "okay, we don't want you in the tournament anymore, even though you qualified under our rules, so we will simply replace you." Actually, for the most part, cheating and fixing games is not breaking the law. There is no law against me, for example, using a maphack in a game, or whatever other hacks may exist. Fixing games is only breaking the law if it is done in conjunction with betting on the games/etc--that can be racketeering and fraud among other charges. This may be in violation of a contract if it occurs during a tournament, but breaking a contract and breaking the law are not at all the same. | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:17 o[twist] wrote: had he been awarded the spot already? were there any conditions to him being awarded the spot? it's all cute and fine to say "act like a professional" but in the real world you are not simply allowed to spank people when they do things you don't like and take back things you've already given them. I'm looking for a source from GomTV saying we welcome Naniwa to Code S because from what I gather it's all just whispers in the wind. | ||
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baoluvboa
743 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:17 o[twist] wrote: had he been awarded the spot already? were there any conditions to him being awarded the spot? it's all cute and fine to say "act like a professional" but in the real world you are not simply allowed to spank people when they do things you don't like and take back things you've already given them. No spots were given contractually. Totally up to Gom's decision for the two spots in 2012. Naniwa was the highest candidate for one but his unprofessional conduct in the real world does not work out. He is not simply allowed to spank people when they do things he doesnt like. | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:17 Caltu wrote: The main thing is why is everyone saying how they cant take his seed away? Its their competition is it not? I mean we can argue about the manner of how and why it was taken but seriously its their competition they can kinda do what they want it's unlikely that he can, for example, sue to have the seed back, if that's what you mean - although it's possible | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:16 o[twist] wrote: this is exactly the kind of culture they want to inculcate - play for the victory, not for the money, cause it's not like they're going to pay these korean kids enough to make it truly worth their while to drop out of school and pursue this single-mindedly the way they do. this is just another example of esports taking advantage of the players and acting in loco parentis rather than respectfully as an employer or as an equal Leenock might well disagree with you... And I'm pretty sure that they are taking steps to get more money to the non-GSL players with the weekly cup and other tournaments. It's just that in Korea there isn't enough money IN Starcraft 2 yet. It hasn't caught on quite the way it has overseas. Basically I don't think you're being fair here. It's not like the non-tournament winners in the foreign community have bags of money coming to them, either. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:14 baoluvboa wrote: He did not qualified contractually, it was their decision to decide that his conduct was not worthy of a PRIVILEGE spot. IT'S NOT A PRIVILEGE. Unless you clarify in advance that you can withdraw it any point without justification it's not a privilege. It can be an invitation, a promise but not a privilege. | ||
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Stipulation
United States587 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:16 m0ck wrote: It's becoming a game of semantics, arguing about whose definition of professional takes precedence. Clearly, what koreans and native english speakers understand by 'professional' is not the same. By combatex living off the money he earns by playing starcraft, he would be called a professional starcraft player. It is his occupation, his mean of livelyhood. Whether he is being a dick while doing it is besides the point. But that's not how you understand the word. It is more in the line of 'does he uphold certain virtues that we ascribe to what we call a professional starcraft player', as I understand it. An excellent point. This isn't just a cultural difference, but a language difference that we have to take into account as was analyze the situation. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:13 DarK[A] wrote: Let's stay on topic. I imagine they're inviting IdrA because: 1) He's already competed in Code S and played in Korea - they know what to expect. 2) He's never been eliminated from Code S. 3) He's going to bring a large foreign fan base to the GSL, which is what they want. He also forfeited placement matches in MLG numerous times. Maybe that doesn't matter since they wouldn't be casted anyway. If meaningless matches in Blizzard cup affects the MLG-GSL-partnership why not meaningless matches in MLG? I think neither should affect the seeds and I realise there's a difference, but I still feel the GSL-guys are a little nonchalant towards MLG. | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:19 Trsjnica wrote: Actually, for the most part, cheating and fixing games is not breaking the law. There is no law against me, for example, using a maphack in a game, or whatever other hacks may exist. Fixing games is only breaking the law if it is done in conjunction with betting on the games/etc--that can be racketeering and fraud among other charges. This may be in violation of a contract if it occurs during a tournament, but breaking a contract and breaking the law are not at all the same. uhh are you new to the sc scene? do you remember the bw match-fixing scandal? | ||
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:07 MrCon wrote: Are people arguing about if the code S spot was "an invitation" or not ? The code S spot was Naniwa's, no need to argue otherwise. Just read the LR thread of his MLG, you'll see eveyone cheering because his win in semies meant he won code S.This has also be comfirmed like 100 times, please do not rewrite history. Naniwa was a code S player, it was so for GOM, for Liquipedia, for MLG, for everyone. So basically the 100s of fans in the MLG LR know the clauses of the contract between MLG and GSL better than Mr. Chae who is claiming that the 2012 Code S spot was being "given" rather than earned? The reason everyone believed that Naniwa earned a Code S spot was because they ASSUMED that the MLG/GSL exchange program would continue throughout 2012. Apparently, it does not according to the GomTV. MLG can't really vouch for you either since they don't seem to be sure about it yet either. On December 15 2011 01:56 MLG_Lee wrote: Folks, we're just becoming aware of the decision from GSL. We don't have all the facts yet and are investigating. Please stay tuned. Thanks, Lee (Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294713¤tpage=226#4510) Apparently there is a need to argue since random people like you think they know everything when the most-informed authorities are saying a different message. | ||
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msl
Germany477 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:17 Caltu wrote: The main thing is why is everyone saying how they cant take his seed away? Its their competition is it not? I mean we can argue about the manner of how and why it was taken but seriously its their competition they can kinda do what they want Not if you care about things like integrety of the competion. The only way to have that is to have dependable rules and not make stuff up as you go along. Like I said elsewhere, the correct thing to do if you deem this unacceptable is to issue a sternly worded warning and make a clear rule that allows you to punish the next guy that breaks it. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
Secondly there's two kinds of professionalism a dedication to your occupation and being a circus monkey. If naniwa would have played that game against neastea he would have sold his soul to a entertainment corporation. Now he has left his soul back home where he practises 12 hours a day. Being a pro-gamer is putting in the hours practising not putting in the hours pleasing the audience. | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:19 hypercube wrote: IT'S NOT A PRIVILEGE. Unless you clarify in advance that you can withdraw it any point without justification it's not a privilege. It can be an invitation, a promise but not a privilege. Where have Gomtv blatantly said, "Naniwa heres a Code S spot"? | ||
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Helios.Star
United States548 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:09 ShepherdC wrote: I'm sorry, but am I missing something? It seems like this statement is still calling Naniwa an amateur. Anyone with even a modicum of skill at understanding diplomatic language recognizes that this is a punishment, and Mr. Chae is calling Naniwa an unprofessional money hunter in his inference that because Naniwa didn't have an opportunity to make money he didn't play to win a match. Correct me if im wrong, but arent Korean players quoted as saying they didnt try as hard in the korea vs the world team match the one during the super tourmanent) because it was just a showmatch, and not a serious tournament not for money? I think it was MC who said he didnt give it his all vs white-ra because of that. According to the statement what they did isnt really any different. | ||
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gwixter
Slovakia336 Posts
Denying him seed (invite, whatever .... which he rightfully earned) due to some ridiculous rule OR kick him out without breaking any rule at all, just because they don't like his attitude all those format-changing, seed-becoming-invites arguments are just really poor excuses | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:20 o[twist] wrote: uhh are you new to the sc scene? do you remember the bw match-fixing scandal? The match-fixing scandal involved betting on the games, which I clearly identified in the quote you posted as the portion of match-fixing that breaks the law. | ||
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