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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:11 hALLE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:00 pezit wrote:On December 14 2011 20:56 xBillehx wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 Parcelleus wrote: Might be time to follow BW.
SC2 scene just became a joke. What's really funny about this is anyone who has been following BW for a while knows KeSPA would have banned Naniwa permanently for throwing a game. Yeah and they also disqualified a player for typing pp instead of ppp when he wanted to pause, koreans culture is clearly... different, and by different I mean fucking retarded. User was warned for this post hahaha WOW really? They banned a guy for typing a p less then was allowed? Koreans are a bit crazy I think. no, they dont"ban" they make him lose a game not a set and not a ban, AND it was already changed ANY ammount of "p" is ok so its can be "p" pp ppp pppp ppppp pppppppppppp......
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GOMtv, you lost a viewer!
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On December 14 2011 21:09 Keidy wrote: This is so wrong
The argument that the korean culture is like this is fine, if they are living by their own rules. But how can they do this to Nani saying his behaviour was unproffessional, when GSL themselves are beeing soooooo fucking unproffessional when they call him "amateur money hunter"
So much for the korean culter.
Terrible decision, and I have no respect for GSL/Korea atm
Oh. Flaming an entire country and culture for the actions taken by one company. Thats going to make you look like the true "proffessional" here.
NaniWa was invited to the Blizzard Cup, and was paid to play and provide games. He didn't do so and spat in the face of the fans as a result. Did anyone read the LR after it happened?
On December 13 2011 21:06 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: No respect to viewers, producers, casters and anyone else involved in making this tournament a success.
If there were betting lines out of these matches it's absolutely unacceptable regarding that as well. I doubt Naniwa researched that so it's morally the same decision.
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On December 14 2011 21:11 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:10 Lokj wrote: Wouldn't it have been a better solution to keep his prizemoney (from the Blizzard Cup, 840$ for 7th - 10th) and just let him play his Code S seed? This will surely dampen his competitive spirit. Competitive spirit is a funny thing to mention when you throw a game on purpose. Even if it doesn't win you anything to actually win the game. Oh, come on, you know very well that naniwa is very driven and certainly competitive. Part of the reason why he's so emotional is that he wants to win so badly. I'm guessing you have some experience with naniwa being a bit of a dick in germany, but a lack of passion doesn't really seem to fit the bill.
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On December 14 2011 21:12 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:09 deth wrote: i honestly dont know why so many people are trying to defend naniwa.
GSL is a business, naniwa is paid to play the tournament and is expected to act like a professional sportsman, especially important if he is to be playing professionally in korea.
People pay to watch GSL, the maps and games were determined beforehand. Even if the game was pointless, so many people wanted to see Naniwa vs Nestea as its just a great matchup, especially with the rivalry. Then naniwa throws it and disappoints everyone who paid for the season pass, despite nani getting guaranteed prize money from the tourney.
At the very least you owe it to your fans to play the game, even if you have no motivation for doing so. Everyone arguing otherwise needs to shove away their internet pitchforks and think about it from GSL's point of view. Few people are defending naniwa; most are upset with GSL's ridiculous, ambiguous, and over the top reaction.
ridiculous - was in their rule ambiguous - correct in term of their rules but historical analogies set by brood war time and past incidents have established a pretty clear definite of what proper conducts are for progamers. over the top - same as ridiculous
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On December 14 2011 21:13 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:
"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."
From MC I think it's funny that pro-gamers advocate giving up competition in order for entertainment, as if pro gamers are entertainers who just happen to be competitors.. where does it say anything about giving up competition?
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On December 14 2011 21:12 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:08 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 21:06 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 21:02 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:59 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:45 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote: [quote] Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. 0% against 6 pool. Given any skill level? Yeah, no. Given if you're opponent is either Bronze or has no pulse, NesTea is neither Alright let's bring the BlizzCon finals into this. NesTea creates a ton of broodlords and nothing else when MVP has mass ghosts, many vikings, and marines. Zero percent chance of winning that engagement, should NesTea be reprimanded? If you argue "well it's not the GSL" then there goes the argument for "professionalizing eSports" because there will be no set standard. Well thats a entirely different thing. For that match it meant the difference between 1st and 2nd place and almost twice the price money for first. You cant compare that match with the one Naniwa played against NesTea which was a consolation match. Also that game was strange by itself. Who knew what NesTea was thinking? Maybe he thought he units somewhere on the map but they were killed? There was no real proof that NesTea threw the game unlike Naniwa who stated clearly he threw the game on his Twitter. Prize money doesn't matter. According to professionalism you're supposed to be trying your hardest in every match regardless of reward. That's what makes it comparable. Like I said in another post, pros have said that a bronze leaguer could make a better choice in that point of time when it comes to making the broodlords, it's the same decision making as Naniwa deciding to worker rush. The only difference is that Naniwa explicitly stated that he threw the game, if he said "well I thought it would work" there would be no argument against him when compared to NesTea's throw at Blizzcon Theres a difference between going into a game with a mindset of losing and also commiting to a strategy that will lose for sure than making a brain-fart decision mistake late-game(which may or may not have happened or plainly NesTea thought he was going to lose anyway). They're both results of bad decision making. NaNiwa made a bad decision to worker rush as a strategy NesTea made a bad decision to make a ton of broodlords and nothing else when the opponent all the counters to the unit There is something to be said about entering the game with a losing mindset, but you wouldn't know it was there unless NaNiwa told you " I intended to lose that game". From Naniwa's twitter: "people are so mad i probe rushed nestea in a pointless game. it couldnt change anything in the tournament" "neither of us had anything at stake and wouldnt play our best. sorry fans that expected more" Naniwa choosing to probe rush was a bad decision? lol
Include "i really practiced my 7 probe rush. i should have won that game ez!"
if that isn't any indication that he wasn't thinking of the consequence of his decision, i don't know what is
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Im glad there is such an easy way to express dissatisfaction in this case. My money stays in my pocket.
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Good thing i didn't buy the GSL season ticket....i will never support competitions that take childish and racist decisions based on personal grudges and to please certain players (like nestea). No fairness..no honor...no respect...just insults.
If i want to watch the best of the best i will wait for MLG...not GSL. I evaded the bigest waste of money i could have possibly made. They won...they wanted a "korean wonderland" and they got it. Good luck with your viewer database.
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I personally think they need a different reason to ban him though
During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
That normally has to include Manner Mules Marine dancing and nearly all ceremonies so i don't think the reasoning is valid
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On December 14 2011 21:13 tSxWorld wrote: why not giving the spot to Stephano ??? I don't get it !
Stephano doesn't want to play in the GSL (see his post-Blizzard Cup interview).
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Big big joke.
Excuse me, but how is that fair, where is the justice in this? I wanted to buy premium for new season. No way after this I will.
Joke!
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On December 14 2011 21:11 Excelle wrote: I would do the same, if i was playing 3 games that was very close for me to win, and then i know im out.. why and from where would i get my motivation to win a meaningless game?.. And why dont GOM just tell the players before what happens if they do stuff like that.. AND no im not saying this because im from Sweden... just saying this because i think its just so shitty by GOM.. Yeah, that is western behaviour. If you don't get any profit just go home and do something else more productive.
But I think our asian friends don't like it. They prefer to say "yes" or "maybe" when they should clearly say "no".
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On December 14 2011 21:08 ToasteR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:04 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 21:02 ToasteR_ wrote: Looks like this is the first season of GSL I won't be buying, probably won't purchase a season ticket any more. Way to go GOM... You act like GOMTV made the choice for you to not buy the ticket and now you are deprived. You made that choice youself. If you buy to see one player then dont you get upset everytime he loses in the first round and you dont get to see him again for more than a month  I don't buy to see one player I buy because it was the highest level tourney around. But after this over reaction and "sponsor seeds" which are incredibly stupid and just a way for more foreign views the GSL just doesnt seem as legit anymore.
Mind letting us know which tournaments are more legit than?
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Very well done by GOM. Gave him what he deserved. You don't go around doing stupid shit like that. Have some respect for your opponent and your fans, not only yourself.
And those who chose "not to watch gsl any longer" well... lol.
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Yea I'm sorry but there goes my Premium tickets. I've bought everyone so far, but never again.
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On December 14 2011 21:11 labbe wrote: I cannot even begin do describe my disappointment with gom for doing this. It rubs me the wrong way for SO many different reasons. And I'm not even going to go into the whole "Was Naniwa right or wrong" debate.
1. The punishment is WAY to harsh. He earned that Code S spot fair and square. Sure, take a away his price money from the Blizzard Cup and give him a warning, but Code S is a totally different event, and should not be affected by this.
2. To make the GSL even more of a farce, they just randomly invites Sen to Code S? What has he done to deserve that? I did not realize that professional Starcraft was a popularity contest, but as of late it sure seems like it is. What about all the players in Korea working their asses off dreaming to play in Code S, and Gom just randomly gives people free invites to foreigner on a whim. At least have the decency to hold some sort of qualifier to that Code S spot if you necessarily have to go and ban people.
3. The "rule" that they are referring to that Naniwa supposedly broke, if the most vague thing I have ever seen, and could be used for banning any player, at any time, should Gom feel like it. This is not a professional way to go about things. If you are going to punish someone, at least give a good fucking reason to do so.
Sigh. I don't want to rant any more, but I just thought that GomTV would be more professional than this. They had the perfect opportunity to take the high road, and show everyone that they don't care about pointless drama, but instead they chose to abuse their power and take it down to a lower level than I even thought possible. Good job making professional starcraft a farce.
1. Hardly harsh at all, just because Naniwa fought exceptionally hard to earn Code S does not make his punishment more harsh. Had he been a Korean he probably would have been perma banned.
2. They are trying to promote the global aspect, Sen has done well in the Korea vs World tournament before.
3. They probably wouldn't have enforced that rule if they didn't receive the amount of complaints that they did.
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Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again.
-MC
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On December 14 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote: Good thing i didn't buy the GSL season ticket....i will never support competitions that take childish and racist decisions based on personal grudges and to please certain players (like nestea). No fairness..no honor...no respect...just insults.
If i want to watch the best of the best i will wait for MLG...not GSL. I evaded the bigest waste of money i could have possibly made. They won...they wanted a "korean wonderland" and they got it. Good luck with your viewer database.
If anything they accommodated and lessen their professionalism by accommodating foreign players who were not as skillful to be in the GSL.
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Ok i don't even like Naniwa that much at all. This Decision from GOMTV is a huge friggen slap in the face and a double standard.
Revokes Naniwas Code S Spot; when he did nothing wrong. Then they invite IdrA and Sen for Free Code S Spots like WTF this is such a embaressment.
GOM needs to Rescind their Decision.
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