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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
i dont rly care.
but i want to shit on blizzard/gom for blizzard cup having the worst possible format for such a
sick tourney.
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On December 14 2011 05:13 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:10 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On December 14 2011 05:01 Trsjnica wrote:On December 14 2011 04:49 Zeri wrote:On December 14 2011 04:43 Big J wrote:
It's not professional behaviour and it's definatly hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply must not do this and you will be punished for such things.
Furthermore it is hurting GOMs business, so I would completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly.
Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has nothing to do with "sports", it is not worth watching it because only immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) It's not unprofessional behaviour and it's definatly not hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply can do this and you will not be punished for such things. Furthermore it is not hurting GOMs business, so I would not completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly. Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has parallels with "sports", it is worth watching it because there aren't immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) NFL teams, and teams in other leagues, regularly play their hardest in late season games despite a lack of significance of the game. (Actually, it's often beneficial to lose due to draft implications.) If the Colts just decided to not attend a game, or to send out their C team every down and not tackle, do you think that would hurt the NFL, look terrible, and cause serious consequences? Absolutely. And so should this. You could argue that resting your starters in a meaningless game is basically throwing it.So then the Colts resting their starters when they secured the first seed in the afc is purposely losing since I've never seen a team of second stringers beating a team of first string players. The spirit behind that is entirely different, thought. The spirit behind that is more like "I need to play really well in this later game!" If anything, this just emphasizes how important the league is to the team. The spirit behind this move is simply, "Meh, too lazy to play this game I was paid to play. Screw the fans who paid to see me play my rival Nestea, I am going home."
But fans still paid to see the colts game when they paid for the tickets. Also they could be playing a team whos on the edge of a playoff spot. Lets say the team they're playing clinches the wild card if they win no matter what due to tiebreakers. It's unfair to the other teams who had to earn their last win compared to the team who played the colts cause it was just a free win for them.
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On December 14 2011 05:01 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:49 Zeri wrote:On December 14 2011 04:43 Big J wrote:
It's not professional behaviour and it's definatly hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply must not do this and you will be punished for such things.
Furthermore it is hurting GOMs business, so I would completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly.
Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has nothing to do with "sports", it is not worth watching it because only immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) It's not unprofessional behaviour and it's definatly not hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply can do this and you will not be punished for such things. Furthermore it is not hurting GOMs business, so I would not completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly. Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has parallels with "sports", it is worth watching it because there aren't immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) NFL teams, and teams in other leagues, regularly play their hardest in late season games despite a lack of significance of the game. (Actually, it's often beneficial to lose due to draft implications.) If the Colts just decided to not attend a game, or to send out their C team every down and not tackle, do you think that would hurt the NFL, look terrible, and cause serious consequences? Absolutely. And so should this.
Hilariously enough, that's exactly what the Colts did a few years ago, when they were 15-0. They sat EVERYONE and went 15-1, because they had homefield locked up.
A few media pundits were upset for a few days, but by and large nobody cared. Because it isn't that big a deal.
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On December 14 2011 05:20 zidaneshead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:08 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 03:50 hmunkey wrote:
GOM told Nani to play a match in which he got nothing in return. He was paid $800 or whatever it was to show up and sign a consent form. So yes, he does owe it to the people who gave him money to just simply be there to put on a show. Wasn't he invited based on results to play in the blizzard cup? I never said anything about what qualified him to be invited. It doesn't even matter really. GOM concocted a tournament when they didn't have to, said if you win X or Y tournament you qualify, and they invited Naniwa cause he came runner up in one of those tournaments. That has absolutely no bearing on the fact that he was paid money just to show up to a tournament.
There's a huge difference between being paid to do something and being invited to a event that has a price pool. If you don't understand that i don't know what to say.
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On December 14 2011 05:15 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:11 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2011 05:02 ExO_ wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2011 04:43 Big J wrote:
It's not professional behaviour and it's definatly hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply must not do this and you will be punished for such things.
Furthermore it is hurting GOMs business, so I would completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly.
Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has nothing to do with "sports", it is not worth watching it because only immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) Having pointless matches 30 minutes after the player is eliminated from the competition hurting their business. In no other sporting competition is this done. Players are allowed to lose in peace. Uhhh Any sport with a regular season has this done. Ever heard of basketball, football, baseball, ie any game with a regular season and a playoffs afterwards. This isn't 100% comparable but it's the same thing. Have you never heard of a football team purposefully losing more games at the end of a season once they know they are out, for a better draft pick the next season? And all of these happen 30 minutes after the team is eliminated from the league? No, the team is left alone until the next game, which could be tomorrow or in a week. Would Nani have played a better game if the placement match was held the next day? Most likely and he has done so before. The match is not the problem. It is the time frame after a major loss. Why does it matter if the game is 30 seconds later, a day later, a month later? So, by your logic then, people who withdrew from the NASL with a month to go because they had no chance of winning--that is terrible because there was a lot of time between games. Meanwhile, this is fine. So if an MLB team is scheduled to play a double-header, and they lose the first game and are mathematically knocked out of contention for the playoffs, they would be correct to throw the second game in a double-header, but not if the second game is played a week later?
Because you can take a breath and calm down? Seems rather obvious to me.
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On December 14 2011 05:18 Govou wrote:
It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better.
This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Do you also want each player, after they lose, to smile and say that they had a great time despite their loss? lol, some people.....
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On December 14 2011 05:25 reneg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:01 Trsjnica wrote:On December 14 2011 04:49 Zeri wrote:On December 14 2011 04:43 Big J wrote:
It's not professional behaviour and it's definatly hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply must not do this and you will be punished for such things.
Furthermore it is hurting GOMs business, so I would completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly.
Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has nothing to do with "sports", it is not worth watching it because only immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) It's not unprofessional behaviour and it's definatly not hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply can do this and you will not be punished for such things. Furthermore it is not hurting GOMs business, so I would not completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly. Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has parallels with "sports", it is worth watching it because there aren't immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) NFL teams, and teams in other leagues, regularly play their hardest in late season games despite a lack of significance of the game. (Actually, it's often beneficial to lose due to draft implications.) If the Colts just decided to not attend a game, or to send out their C team every down and not tackle, do you think that would hurt the NFL, look terrible, and cause serious consequences? Absolutely. And so should this. Hilariously enough, that's exactly what the Colts did a few years ago, when they were 15-0. They sat EVERYONE and went 15-1, because they had homefield locked up. A few media pundits were upset for a few days, but by and large nobody cared. Because it isn't that big a deal.
Im sure players who were playing that game still played hard.
What Naniwa did is something like scoring on your own net.
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On December 14 2011 05:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:15 Trsjnica wrote:On December 14 2011 05:11 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2011 05:02 ExO_ wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2011 04:43 Big J wrote:
It's not professional behaviour and it's definatly hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply must not do this and you will be punished for such things.
Furthermore it is hurting GOMs business, so I would completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly.
Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has nothing to do with "sports", it is not worth watching it because only immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) Having pointless matches 30 minutes after the player is eliminated from the competition hurting their business. In no other sporting competition is this done. Players are allowed to lose in peace. Uhhh Any sport with a regular season has this done. Ever heard of basketball, football, baseball, ie any game with a regular season and a playoffs afterwards. This isn't 100% comparable but it's the same thing. Have you never heard of a football team purposefully losing more games at the end of a season once they know they are out, for a better draft pick the next season? And all of these happen 30 minutes after the team is eliminated from the league? No, the team is left alone until the next game, which could be tomorrow or in a week. Would Nani have played a better game if the placement match was held the next day? Most likely and he has done so before. The match is not the problem. It is the time frame after a major loss. Why does it matter if the game is 30 seconds later, a day later, a month later? So, by your logic then, people who withdrew from the NASL with a month to go because they had no chance of winning--that is terrible because there was a lot of time between games. Meanwhile, this is fine. So if an MLB team is scheduled to play a double-header, and they lose the first game and are mathematically knocked out of contention for the playoffs, they would be correct to throw the second game in a double-header, but not if the second game is played a week later? Um....by my logic the the players in the NASL still played their pointless matches because they had time to decompress after their elmination match. No one should withdraw or throw games. And if a double header happens to be an elmination match in the first game and the team lost, I would not be shocked if the team played like crap second game. And those games are set up months in advance, before the records are known. The game at Blizzard Cup was set up with the full knowlage that the players would be eliminated right before the match. My point is the match should not have been played right after the elimination match.
The Blizzard Cup schedule was set up before it was known whether or not this game would determine the playoff (tournament) players, just as MLB schedules are determined before it is known which teams will determine playoff teams. That isn't really a meaningful difference.
So, even you yourself admit the MLB team would and should play the second game -- they might just play like crap.
No one would be here if Naniwa played the second game but played like crap. Instead, he effectively GG'ed as soon as the game began. This is more like a team letting their catcher throw 2 innings as pitcher, and then forfeiting the game down 20-0 in the second inning.
Head would roll in MLB if that occured.
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On December 14 2011 05:27 sOda~ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:18 Govou wrote:
It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better. This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Do you also want each player, after they lose, to smile and say that they had a great time despite their loss? lol, some people.....
how did you interpret my comment and come up with such conclusion is beyond me.
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On December 14 2011 05:25 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:20 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:08 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 03:50 hmunkey wrote:
GOM told Nani to play a match in which he got nothing in return. He was paid $800 or whatever it was to show up and sign a consent form. So yes, he does owe it to the people who gave him money to just simply be there to put on a show. Wasn't he invited based on results to play in the blizzard cup? I never said anything about what qualified him to be invited. It doesn't even matter really. GOM concocted a tournament when they didn't have to, said if you win X or Y tournament you qualify, and they invited Naniwa cause he came runner up in one of those tournaments. That has absolutely no bearing on the fact that he was paid money just to show up to a tournament. There's a huge difference between being paid to do something and being invited to a event that has a price pool. If you don't understand that i don't know what to say.
I get the difference, what are you trying to argue? I stated he was paid money just for showing up to the tournament he was invited to, and win or lose, he was going to walk away with money out of GOMs pocket, so the least he could've done is play all his games with effort.
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On December 14 2011 05:25 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:20 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:08 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 03:50 hmunkey wrote:
GOM told Nani to play a match in which he got nothing in return. He was paid $800 or whatever it was to show up and sign a consent form. So yes, he does owe it to the people who gave him money to just simply be there to put on a show. Wasn't he invited based on results to play in the blizzard cup? I never said anything about what qualified him to be invited. It doesn't even matter really. GOM concocted a tournament when they didn't have to, said if you win X or Y tournament you qualify, and they invited Naniwa cause he came runner up in one of those tournaments. That has absolutely no bearing on the fact that he was paid money just to show up to a tournament. There's a huge difference between being paid to do something and being invited to a event that has a price pool. If you don't understand that i don't know what to say.
He was paid to play in this event.
I am sure that GOM paid for his transportation and loding as needed, and gave him a per diem amount. Were there additional prizes for winners? Yes, of course--but he was still paid to play this event.
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On December 14 2011 05:28 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:27 sOda~ wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Govou wrote:
It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better. This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Do you also want each player, after they lose, to smile and say that they had a great time despite their loss? lol, some people..... how did you interpret my comment and come up with such conclusion is beyond me.
Because your saying he's gotta pretend not to throw the game even if he doenst give a shit about the outcome.
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On December 14 2011 05:16 Serge13102 wrote:
Lets make the comparison better. In tournament golf, an individual tournament sport played throughout the globe, players are often in a position that they will certainly miss the cut after the second round. They will have no bearing on the final outcome and in fact will often not earn prize money for the event. Yet they are still required to finish the round and face huge fines and suspensions if they don't. This is done so that the fans who paid to see the event get to see the entire round - even if the player has no chance of winning.
ESports needs to either be more professional in the actions of the players or remain a fringe niche for a bunch of nerds. I sincerely hope it is the former.
Yep cause Starcraft 2 players have a contract with gom saying they can play at every open gsl tournament and get their sponsors recognized not only by a huge crowd at the events but possibly on the biggest saturday+sunday afternoon television event.
Pretty sure sponsors aren't supporting players that go through the qualifiers. Just like sponsors are not supporting golfers who aren't visible to its viewing audience.
Anyways this just continues the never-ceasing invalid and far-reaching metaphors and arguments this thread will be famous for all week.
Edit:I'm also getting tired of seeing this type of untrue statistical statement go check out the guy who does the probe rush blog (I'm pretty sure he wins games). It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better.
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On December 14 2011 05:29 sOda~ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:28 Govou wrote:On December 14 2011 05:27 sOda~ wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Govou wrote:
It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better. This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Do you also want each player, after they lose, to smile and say that they had a great time despite their loss? lol, some people..... how did you interpret my comment and come up with such conclusion is beyond me. Because your saying he's gotta pretend not to throw the game even if he doenst give a shit about the outcome.
sure you could interpret it that way.
I didnt say he had to smile and wave. I find your reaction to be quite over exaggerating. kinda ironic.
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On December 14 2011 05:29 zidaneshead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:25 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:20 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:08 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 03:50 hmunkey wrote:
GOM told Nani to play a match in which he got nothing in return. He was paid $800 or whatever it was to show up and sign a consent form. So yes, he does owe it to the people who gave him money to just simply be there to put on a show. Wasn't he invited based on results to play in the blizzard cup? I never said anything about what qualified him to be invited. It doesn't even matter really. GOM concocted a tournament when they didn't have to, said if you win X or Y tournament you qualify, and they invited Naniwa cause he came runner up in one of those tournaments. That has absolutely no bearing on the fact that he was paid money just to show up to a tournament. There's a huge difference between being paid to do something and being invited to a event that has a price pool. If you don't understand that i don't know what to say. I get the difference, what are you trying to argue? I stated he was paid money just for showing up to the tournament he was invited to, and win or lose, he was going to walk away with money out of GOMs pocket, so the least he could've done is play all his games with effort.
I'm trying to argue that what you wrote is wrong. And it is because Naniwa WASN'T paid money just to show up. He was invited to a tournament that had a price pool.
If i was invited to a poker tournament and someone paid for my ticket there i'm not obliged to do shit really, even if there's a guaranteed price pool.
If i'm paid to go to this tournament, well that's a whole different story.
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On December 14 2011 05:30 whatwhatanut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:16 Serge13102 wrote:
Lets make the comparison better. In tournament golf, an individual tournament sport played throughout the globe, players are often in a position that they will certainly miss the cut after the second round. They will have no bearing on the final outcome and in fact will often not earn prize money for the event. Yet they are still required to finish the round and face huge fines and suspensions if they don't. This is done so that the fans who paid to see the event get to see the entire round - even if the player has no chance of winning.
ESports needs to either be more professional in the actions of the players or remain a fringe niche for a bunch of nerds. I sincerely hope it is the former. Edit:I'm also getting tired of seeing this type of untrue statistical statement go check out the guy who does the probe rush blog (I'm pretty sure he wins games). It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better.
lol probe rushing against Nestea is about as 0 chance you can get. Cannon rushing at least can be played in various ways.
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On December 14 2011 05:25 reneg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:01 Trsjnica wrote:On December 14 2011 04:49 Zeri wrote:On December 14 2011 04:43 Big J wrote:
It's not professional behaviour and it's definatly hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply must not do this and you will be punished for such things.
Furthermore it is hurting GOMs business, so I would completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly.
Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has nothing to do with "sports", it is not worth watching it because only immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) It's not unprofessional behaviour and it's definatly not hurting e-sports if people can do this as in other sports competitions you simply can do this and you will not be punished for such things. Furthermore it is not hurting GOMs business, so I would not completly understand if they punished Nani for that rather harshly. Everyone who is not a big esports fan and hears of this will just get the impression that this has parallels with "sports", it is worth watching it because there aren't immature kids are playing it. (not calling Nani a such, but that's what the impression has to be for outsiders) NFL teams, and teams in other leagues, regularly play their hardest in late season games despite a lack of significance of the game. (Actually, it's often beneficial to lose due to draft implications.) If the Colts just decided to not attend a game, or to send out their C team every down and not tackle, do you think that would hurt the NFL, look terrible, and cause serious consequences? Absolutely. And so should this. Hilariously enough, that's exactly what the Colts did a few years ago, when they were 15-0. They sat EVERYONE and went 15-1, because they had homefield locked up. A few media pundits were upset for a few days, but by and large nobody cared. Because it isn't that big a deal.
Nice seeing someone who actually sees and knows what happens in sports talking about sports here.
Not that big of a deal move on, Stephano is streaming etc etc.
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Nani plays full game, loses.
Reaction: lololol, naniwa can't even beat a nestea that is in a slump.
Nani plays full game. wins.
Reaction: doesn't count, nestea is in a slump, and is probably tilting.
Nani plays cheese game, wins.
Reaction: Naniwa can only win with cheesy strategy, and Nestea is slumping.
Nani plays cheese game. loses.
Reaction: Gawd, why the fuck is naniwa so fucking cheesy?
There really is no winning for Naniwa in this match.... Only lesser of evils.
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On December 14 2011 05:33 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:29 sOda~ wrote:On December 14 2011 05:28 Govou wrote:On December 14 2011 05:27 sOda~ wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Govou wrote:
It is not about throwing a match away, It is about the manner he did.
There was 0 possibility he was going to win the game with probe rushing. If he at least cannon rushed, it would have been better. This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Do you also want each player, after they lose, to smile and say that they had a great time despite their loss? lol, some people..... how did you interpret my comment and come up with such conclusion is beyond me. Because your saying he's gotta pretend not to throw the game even if he doenst give a shit about the outcome. sure you could interpret it that way. I didnt say he had to smile and wave. I find your reaction to be quite over exaggerating. kinda ironic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
...............
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On December 14 2011 05:33 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:29 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 05:25 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:20 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:On December 14 2011 05:08 zidaneshead wrote:On December 14 2011 03:50 hmunkey wrote:
GOM told Nani to play a match in which he got nothing in return. He was paid $800 or whatever it was to show up and sign a consent form. So yes, he does owe it to the people who gave him money to just simply be there to put on a show. Wasn't he invited based on results to play in the blizzard cup? I never said anything about what qualified him to be invited. It doesn't even matter really. GOM concocted a tournament when they didn't have to, said if you win X or Y tournament you qualify, and they invited Naniwa cause he came runner up in one of those tournaments. That has absolutely no bearing on the fact that he was paid money just to show up to a tournament. There's a huge difference between being paid to do something and being invited to a event that has a price pool. If you don't understand that i don't know what to say. I get the difference, what are you trying to argue? I stated he was paid money just for showing up to the tournament he was invited to, and win or lose, he was going to walk away with money out of GOMs pocket, so the least he could've done is play all his games with effort. I'm trying to argue that what you wrote is wrong. And it is because Naniwa WASN'T paid money just to show up. He was invited to a tournament that had a price pool. If i was invited to a poker tournament and someone paid for my ticket there i'm not obliged to do shit really, even if there's a guaranteed price pool. If i'm paid to go to this tournament, well that's a whole different story.
Well the prize pool encompassed all the players. Nani is getting 625 euros.
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EPT
