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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
>idra throws his match against jinro
omg this is actually so smart, he cantwin on this map anyway and it might have worked
>idra throws his match against mc
zerg isnt supposed to beat protoss anyway
>idra refuses to play his IPL3 group matches
omg this is so smart, this way he doesnt have to show his builds and he can rest more, only idra can think of something this smart
>naniwa sees no point in playing a game that changes nothing
BURN HIM, KICK HIM FROM GSL AND BAN HIM FROM SC2, WORSE THAN SAVIOR SCUM.
really classy TL/Reddit. just shut up, you're exaggerating this hardcore.
this is worse than the CoCa incident, jesus christ the kid wanted a 3rd game and he gets kicked from slayers and GSL?
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On December 14 2011 00:08 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:01 Weemoed wrote:On December 14 2011 00:00 Squeegy wrote:On December 13 2011 23:53 Weemoed wrote:On December 13 2011 23:51 mEatBucket wrote:On December 13 2011 23:50 Sneakyz wrote:On December 13 2011 23:42 Treziel wrote:On December 13 2011 23:39 sereniity wrote:On December 13 2011 23:35 Treziel wrote:On December 13 2011 23:22 Derez wrote:
The reasonable part of me would be happy if they booted him out of code S for this, the sadistic part of me wants him in there so I can see him get all-inned some more. Part of me makes me a bigger fan of all those players that do what they're supposed to. Haha this is great, I was also hoping GOM would strip him of code S but actually now you've said it it would be better if they left him in so the Koreans can pick up their freewins (they only allin him every game because they know he isn't good enough to stop it), he can throw another rage tantrum and leave Korea shamed and 0-14 in GSL (I believe he is 0-12 or 0-10 now). Wow... a big part of this community is fucking disgusting... The total blind fanboy bias of anyone that defends these kind of actions is the only thing that is fucking disgusting here, mate. Just so you know, I'd say the same if we were talking about a British (my nationality) player like DeMuslim or BlinG had done this. Maybe open up your eyes and see past your nationalism. If you express nationalism in sweden people view you as a racist  No they view you as a retard because odds is, you actually are. > Thinking nationalism is retarded. On December 13 2011 23:50 Giriath wrote:
I'd rather move on to the next match with something on the line than see two players half-ass in the middle of a serious tournament, because that's what happens when the format forces them to play with no chance of advancing. This. It is massive douchebaggery from Naniwa actually because he knew Nestea wanted a rematch. He knew there was a rivalry going on. He had taunted Nestea in the interviews. And now it was time for a rematch. But Naniwa lacked the balls because he was getting owned left and right and he had everything to lose by being defeated by Nestea. Are people blowing this out of proportion? Yes. Is Naniwa a douchebag? Yes. Are you a douchebag if you say you stand by his actions? Yes. The game was very meaningful. Read this: On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. I would like to see the reasoning for why progamers should not try to win. But yes, of course he shouldn't reveal a set of secret strategies he had devised for this tournament's zerg players but he certainly owed Nestea a proper game.
So you'd be happy with a 4 gate?
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Posted this in the other thread, but figured I would move it here instead.
There was always something about Naniwa's personality that irked me and I had trouble placing it. As a result, I tended to root against him, but mostly because he always seemed to be playing against my man Leenock. It's truly a shame that he seems oblivious to the expectations of fans/sponsors when it comes to important events. How any "pro" Starcraft player could ever think that each and every game you play, let alone big ones against the world's top players, aren't valuable learning experiences and a chance to improve is beyond me. I vehemently hope he loses every tourney he enters from now on until he realizes what a fool he's been and drastically changes his perception of how to approach high-caliber SC2. Furthermore, he has single-handedly cast a bad reputation on every foreigner with hopes to succeed in Korean e-sports, burning the bridge many foreigners have been working very hard on the last few months.
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On December 14 2011 00:11 Numy wrote:
I can't help feeling Naniwa is just not very clever. If he didn't want to play the game he could have done a quick 4gate not succeed and then quit. No one would be raging. Instead he takes it to the absolute extreme and wonders why people rage.
No one would be raging, GOM would not take notice of their bad format, there would be no changes and soon people would be disappointed with this kind of format and not pay to watch because matches would inexplicably be bad.
Because players would be forced to half-ass when they've already lost. Perhaps even to players who can advance, making the tournament very unfair to the players, if all some of them have to do is be lucky enough to face players who have already lost.
At least now the issue has been brought to light.
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So, Naniwa thinks that people are only angry because of him? You know what, he is right. If he didn't have such a piss poor attitude all of the time, no one would give a shit. But, since he is the consumate piece of shit, only care about myself player, it does get blown out of proportion.
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As a side note, all 3 games from every bo3 should be played out from now on, or else the fans get cheated out of really meaningful and amazing games with huge tournament implications.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
In many sports you get dud matches which aren't expected to reach the dizzy heights of competitveness, however there is still a minimum expectation of effort. If a football/soccer team is already out of a competition, they'll send out a B team.. not ideal, but it's something for the fans. What Naniwa did was the equivalent of a team kicking the ball into their own net because they couldn't be assed.
He's in a foreign country where people won't really care about his past, and should attempt to assimilate somewhat and tone down his abrasive nature. Maybe he just hates being liked tough.
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On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction.
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This was quite well-put. It boils down to the simple question; would the players have given everything they got to win the game? If not; why play? We as viewers would see a game that is not particularly good (or we would be fooled to believe it was good even though the players did not play their strongest strategies).
It shows a problem with the tournament format. It would have been nice if players could be motivated to play at their very best even if there was nothing but bragging rights to gain, but in today’s game you don’t give away your strongest strategies “for free”.
I too believe that he could have played a random strat; why not just 4gate and lose that way. But it would have been the same thing in the end; a sub-par that would just have taken a bit longer to play out.
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This is obviusly a Tournament fault i mean, tournaments should never let a already dead player to continue playing...just because they will not show their true potential.
True competitions like MLG (brackets phase) is a good exeple of how to deal with losing players...and one match only kill is retarded....winning one game aganist other player means nothing !
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On December 14 2011 00:19 J.E.G. wrote:
As a side note, all 3 games from every bo3 should be played out from now on, or else the fans get cheated out of really meaningful and amazing games with huge tournament implications.
Is this a serious post or are you joking?
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On December 14 2011 00:17 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:11 Numy wrote:
I can't help feeling Naniwa is just not very clever. If he didn't want to play the game he could have done a quick 4gate not succeed and then quit. No one would be raging. Instead he takes it to the absolute extreme and wonders why people rage. No one would be raging, GOM would not take notice of their bad format, there would be no changes and soon people would be disappointed with this kind of format and not pay to watch because matches would inexplicably be bad. Because players would be forced to half-ass when they've already lost. Perhaps even to players who can advance, making the tournament very unfair to the players, if all some of them have to do is be lucky enough to face players who have already lost. At least now the issue has been brought to light.
This is called pool plays, it happens in every possible sport in the world.
This is not an issue if you're a pro, which Naniwa clearly isn't.
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I'll give naniwa till end of the week to be either kicked from qantic or moved to another team.
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I don't think just because the game would have changed any results actually means that much. It's kinda like Naniwa not giving Nestea a chance to show him up after MLG. Also it must suck for people who paid to get these vods to see that game.
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On December 14 2011 00:17 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:11 Numy wrote:
I can't help feeling Naniwa is just not very clever. If he didn't want to play the game he could have done a quick 4gate not succeed and then quit. No one would be raging. Instead he takes it to the absolute extreme and wonders why people rage. No one would be raging, GOM would not take notice of their bad format, there would be no changes and soon people would be disappointed with this kind of format and not pay to watch because matches would inexplicably be bad. Because players would be forced to half-ass when they've already lost. Perhaps even to players who can advance, making the tournament very unfair to the players, if all some of them have to do is be lucky enough to face players who have already lost. At least now the issue has been brought to light.
'Now the issue has been brought to light'?
That's quite possibly the absolute worst explanation so far. The GSL has been nothing but aware of flaws in their format and have been actively fixing it and improving it. There are no irrelevant matches in the GSL anymore, except for the the maximum two bo1's this could have happened this tournament.
There's no structural issue with the GSL tournament format here that needed to be adressed.
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"Can't believe that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer"
How's the pause game into rock, paper or scissors strat going for you Choya?
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On December 14 2011 00:16 Alacast wrote:
Posted this in the other thread, but figured I would move it here instead.
There was always something about Naniwa's personality that irked me and I had trouble placing it. As a result, I tended to root against him, but mostly because he always seemed to be playing against my man Leenock. It's truly a shame that he seems oblivious to the expectations of fans/sponsors when it comes to important events. How any "pro" Starcraft player could ever think that each and every game you play, let alone big ones against the world's top players, aren't valuable learning experiences and a chance to improve is beyond me. I vehemently hope he loses every tourney he enters from now on until he realizes what a fool he's been and drastically changes his perception of how to approach high-caliber SC2. Furthermore, he has single-handedly cast a bad reputation on every foreigner with hopes to succeed in Korean e-sports, burning the bridge many foreigners have been working very hard on the last few months.
If you think every other professional player does anything other than half-ass when they're forced to play despite already having lost and have nothing to win, then you're very wrong. Very few players will have the motivation to play in such conditions, including Nestea, as he himself said on his Twitter.
This is very noticeable in the MLG, where many players choose to forfeit their placement matches for the next season, even though there is some money on the line.
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On December 14 2011 00:12 Erionn wrote:
Greg Fields @idrajit 1 min
dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.
Funny how all the pros have the same opinion on this matter, isn't it?
To be fair, only the foreigner progamers.
For me, I agree with people who said that there were much, much better ways for this to go. Naniwa shouldn't have probe rushed; by doing that, he was just rubbing the Koreans' faces in it.
Honestly, it seems like Naniwa was trying to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't want to play his best against Nestea for nothing but pride, but he was too proud just to fourgate or proxy two gate and lose. By probe rushing, he gets to avoid playing his best but he also denies Nestea the pride of beating him in something that an audience could think of as a real game.
I would be fine with either reaction between trying hard and doing a quick cheese, but there's really no reason to rub everyone's faces in it.
Edit: I thought of another problem with Naniwa's attitude - what changes his motivation if the game does matter and the other player actually can advance, but Naniwa can't - would he still try to win? If so, why- dickishness, to prevent the other guy from moving on? Or some sense of duty to the other players in the group? If I couldn't count on him to play hard just because he wants to win, would I have to be suspicious of anything he plays in that has a group stage?
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On December 14 2011 00:20 Zuxo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:19 J.E.G. wrote:
As a side note, all 3 games from every bo3 should be played out from now on, or else the fans get cheated out of really meaningful and amazing games with huge tournament implications. Is this a serious post or are you joking?
It's making light of the situation... as many people are saying that even though the match didn't matter Naniwa should have played it.. so hes taking these peoples views to their logical destination and saying why isn't every meaningless match played (e.g the ones in a BO3?).
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On December 14 2011 00:12 Erionn wrote:
Greg Fields @idrajit 1 min
dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.
Funny how all the pros have the same opinion on this matter, isn't it?
"all the pros" aka 2 foreigners that threw matches before :p
Koreans don't seem to share that opinion.
I think it's sad that both players did not treat it as a grudgematch with pride on the line, even tho it's kinda understandable from Nani's pov 
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On December 14 2011 00:21 hkf wrote:
I'll give naniwa till end of the week to be either kicked from qantic or moved to another team.
I have no idea what their business model is, but I would actually imagine this exposure would be quite good for them, monetarily speaking.
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EPT
